The rapture keeps coming back

[JLB]

How did they get to Heaven in the first place? Therein lies your answer, as well a the refutation of your theory.

The context gives us the answer.

For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.”
Revelation 19:2

They died as Martyrs during the great tribulation and went to heaven.


JLB

 

[jocor]

It is truly amazing how Christians keep stumbling over "trumpets", since there are trumpets for the saints and trumpets for the sinners, and they are completely separate.

You have yet to tell us when the "last trump" occurs in the timeline of end-time events. Also, please tell us when the 7th trumpet ends and what wrath is associated with it. Do you see the seven vials as part of the 7th trumpet?

 

[JLB]

How did they get to Heaven in the first place? Therein lies your answer, as well a the refutation of your theory.

Here is the context about the saints who are in heaven and how they got there.

For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.”
Revelation 19:2

They died as Martyrs during the great tribulation and went to heaven.


8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Revelations 19:8

The saints that are in heaven, who return with Him when He descends from heaven to earth, died and went to heaven. These saints were clothed in fine linen, clean and bright, which represents their righteous acts.

We know these died during the tribulation as martyrs, because their died at the hands of the great harlot, whom the Lord will avenge on for the blood of His servants.


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

As I already pointed out several times, THE SEVENTH TRUMPET ANNOUNCES GOD'S WRATH, not His salvation as culminating in the Resurrection/Rapture.

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. (Rev 16:17-21).

It is truly amazing how Christians keep stumbling over "trumpets", since there are trumpets for the saints and trumpets for the sinners, and they are completely separate.

The seven trumpets are all about Gods wrath being poured out upon all nations at the end of days and has everything to do with Gods Salvation as many during this time will repent and turn back to God as they will finally have ears to hear the gospel being preached to them by all those who are still alive at this time and have Gods anointing to preach the Gospel. There are no separate trumpets for the saints and sinners as there are only seven that are sounded by the angels as God sends each one out as the soundings brings in all of Gods wrath as He said that He would that none should perish, 2Peter 3:9, but now God longsuffering and patience has come to an end.

There are three woes in Revelations as each one is worse than the other. The first one starts with the opening of the seventh seal in Rev 8:1 through Rev 9:12 that include the first five trumpets. The second woe starts in Rev 9:13 with the sixth trumpet and ends in Rev 11:14. The third woe starts with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15 ending in Rev 19:21.

It's during the sounding of the seventh trumpet as being the last trumpet mentioned in 1Corinthians 15:52 and 1Thess 4:16 that during this last trumpet mystery Babylon being the mother of harlots will reveal the son of perdition, 2Thess 2:3, who is the false prophet as he forces all to bow down to him and take the mark of the beast or face persecution even to death as many saints of God at this time will die a martyr's death for their witness and testimony of Christ and many who are weak in faith will fall away from Christ as they accept this mark as they fear for their own lives as this is the falling away the scriptures speak of.

It is not until Babylon the great is destroyed that Christ returns in the air as we are all gathered together in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air at that time and come back with Him as part of His army in Rev 19 that are clothed in fine linen, white and clean as He binds Satan and then lets him loose for a little while and ythen sends him to the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet.

 

[for_his_glory]

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Are these the ten kings?

Exactly, as it is not contained to just the area of Israel as some are taught, but is global in Gods final wrath being poured out on those who refuse to repent and turn back to Him.

 

[for_his_glory]

Those are the "regions" or kingdoms that the ten kings will rule.

The Club of Rome has a diagram very similar in which they have the world divided up into these ten regions.


JLB

These ten nations are the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

This is a partial list of what the Revived Roman Empire has controlled from their beginning in 1540: Inquisition, Crusaders, Knights Templar, Illuminati, high level Freemasonry, Jesuit infiltration of the English colonies on the North American continent, Banksters, Vatican Bank, Agenda 21 and 2030, World Trade Organization, Bilderbergers Club, Rothschild’s, Rockefeller's, Constantine, Hitler, Mussolini, RCEA and the GEC.

America is not exempt from Gods wrath as some think as it is a global wrath that God will pour out in the end of days.

 

[Malachi]

They died as Martyrs during the great tribulation and went to heaven.

All the saints who are (or will be) in Heaven are not martyrs. So there is no need to confuse things concerning the Resurrection/Rapture.

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. (Heb 12:22-24).

 

[JLB]

All the saints who are (or will be) in Heaven are not martyrs.

Didn't say they were.

So there is no need to confuse things concerning the Resurrection/Rapture.

There is absolutely zero confusion about the rapture/resurrection.

These are one event.

These take place at the coming of the Lord.

The coming of the Lord is after the tribulation. Matthew 24:29-31 - 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

The coming of the Lord is called the second coming, because it is when He comes and appears a second time.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

The rapture/resurrection happens at the coming of the Lord.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


In this event, Jesus will be coming... [for the second time] with His saints from heaven who have died, and for His saints on earth who are alive and remain, in which all His saints will be gathered together, and will forever be with Him.


JLB

 

[jocor]

Malachi, is there some reason why you have not answered my questions in post #82? I am trying to understand what you believe. You told us what you don't believe (that the 7th trumpet has nothing to do with the resurrection), but you haven't told us what you do believe.

 

[Malachi]

You have yet to tell us when the "last trump" occurs in the timeline of end-time events.

Since the Rapture is imminent, that "last trump" ("the trump of God") could blow at any time for the saints. It has no connection to God's wrath.

Also, please tell us when the 7th trumpet ends and what wrath is associated with it. Do you see the seven vials as part of the 7th trumpet?

Absolutely. The 7th trumpet represents the Day of the LORD, the Day of Wrath, which is also the Great Tribulation. When all the judgements are completed before the Second Coming of Christ, the 7th trumpet period is over.

 

[jocor]

Since the Rapture is imminent, that "last trump" ("the trump of God") could blow at any time for the saints. It has no connection to God's wrath.

If the "last trump" is imminent and there are still seven more trumpets to come after that, how can it be the "last trump"?

Absolutely. The 7th trumpet represents the Day of the LORD, the Day of Wrath, which is also the Great Tribulation. When all the judgements are completed before the Second Coming of Christ, the 7th trumpet period is over.

Now you are really confusing me. Does the "second coming of Christ" occur at the rapture? Do you not believe he comes to resurrect the dead at his second coming? Are you saying the rapture and the resurrection occur on different days, years apart?

FYI, the "Great Tribulation" occurs before the Day of Yahweh/Day of the LORD.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:​

The Great Tribulation occurs BEFORE the heavenly signs of the 6th Seal.

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD (YHWH) come.
​

The Day of Yahweh occurs AFTER the heavenly signs of the 6th Seal.
The Day of Yahweh begins when the 7th Seal opens. All seven trumpets are part of the Day of Yahweh.

 

[Malachi]

If the "last trump" is imminent and there are still seven more trumpets to come after that, how can it be the "last trump"?

Something can be the "last" for one group without necessarily being the "last" for another group. God sees humanity as divided into two groups -- the lost and the saved.

Now you are really confusing me. Does the "second coming of Christ" occur at the rapture?

The Second Coming is only after all the judgements described in Revelation 6-18 have been completed.

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Rev 19:11-15).

As you can see, the Second Coming is for the destruction of God's enemies, and the establishment of Christ's Kingdom on earth.

 

[for_his_glory]

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[JLB]

Since the Rapture is imminent, that "last trump" ("the trump of God") could blow at any time for the saints. It has no connection to God's wrath.

Can you share the scripture that teaches us the resurrection/rapture is imminent?

Jesus gave us many signs to look for, that would precede this event.

Are we to disregard the signs that Jesus gave, and just assume that His coming and the resurrection/rapture could just happen with no warning?


JLB

 

[JLB]

As you can see, the Second Coming is for the destruction of God's enemies, and the establishment of Christ's Kingdom on earth.

Yes, it's the Day of the Lord that will come as a thief in the night.

Except it won't come as a thief in the night for the Church because we have been given the signs to look for.


JLB

 

[jocor]

The Second Coming is only after all the judgements described in Revelation 6-18 have been completed.

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Rev 19:11-15).

As you can see, the Second Coming is for the destruction of God's enemies, and the establishment of Christ's Kingdom on earth.

So what your saying is that there will be an imminent rapture then, years later, the second coming. Will the saints be raptured and resurrected on the same day?

 

[Malachi]

Will the saints be raptured and resurrected on the same day?

Absolutely. Rapture for the living saints, and resurrection/rapture for those who died in Christ.

 

[Malachi]

Can you share the scripture that teaches us the resurrection/rapture is imminent?

1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

 

[jocor]

13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

You are applying this verse to the rapture/resurrection which you also said was NOT his second coming. If he "comes" in this verse, doesn't that make his "coming" in Rev 19 his third coming?