The Rapture

[for_his_glory]

Symbolic. You don't get into the book of Daniel very much, do you?

Please do not be condescending. Maybe you need to quit listening to those pretrib Pastors like I did and get into the Bible yourself reading the full context of end time events as it begins in Genesis and ends in Revelation.

 

[for_his_glory]

So the Latin translation is not scripture? What does Harpazo mean? "Caught up" (to meet Him in the air) comes from the Greek word Harpazo. So how is it not scripture?

Can you be clear for us about, does our rapture to meet the Lord in the air take place before or after the binding of satan? Before or after the Millenium?

I have been all through this thread and given many many scriptures as to the fact when Christ returns. It makes no difference to me if you do not agree with me, but I will let scripture stand on it's own for what has already been written.

 

[for_his_glory]

What does this even mean? It seems like you are trying to attach a negative connotation to the passage through the word robbery. This does nothing to help your case. Robbery what? What is your thinking about this?

Question:
Once the Rapture starts and we are on our way to meet Jesus in the air, can you stop the people from rising in the air to meet Jesus? (No). So there is a force involved then! That will seize me and carry me upward by a force.

If Jesus came to you and seized on you to claim you for Himself by snatching you out or away...is this not Harpazo?

You have hurt your case with these assertions.

Time to walk away as I have given all I can unless you want my lengthy article I wrote on the Rapture, but you would refuse to read it anyway.

I'm done, God bless and have a good evening.

 

[dwb001]

Let's hear her answer too, cuz all you in the post trib camp have been unclear about exactly when, before or after satan is bound? Before or after the Millenium? I don't think you guys all agree, lol.

Does He come in the air and take us first? Then He steps onto earth at the mount of Olives. So we meet Him in the air then come down again with Him to the Mount of Olives? Or does He go to the Mount of Olives first and conclude His business there and then go back up into the air so that we can meet Him in the air?

Who says I am post-trib? I am not(in the traditional sense of the phrase).
Why not ask questions before jumping to conclusions.
My view is after the Millennium.
Which would be after Satan is bound.

Jesus reigns 1000 years with the enduring saints from chapters 2+3 of Revelation. Also the first resurrection saints... also from the Revelation time frame.

We would meet Him in the air as the old earth passes away... and back with Jesus to the New Earth.
Revelation 21:1... simple really. Revelation tells the tale of how it all happens if you just read it.
That means don't try to interpret things that don't need to be complicated... Just read and believe.

 

[dwb001]

I have been all through this thread and given many many scriptures as to the fact when Christ returns. It makes no difference to me if you do not agree with me, but I will let scripture stand on it's own for what has already been written.

And yet I don't recall seeing anything definitive that you posted.
Maybe I missed it.
If it makes no difference to you if people believe you... then why do you continue to post?
If you want scripture to speak for itself... then in Revelation 20-21:1 we have the Rapture taking place for the Great White Throne judgement. Is there a different location in Revelation that shows the Rapture?

But you think that Revelation is past history... is that what I get from previous posts? So then where is the point I guess.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I've read where Lucifer believes he will ascend into heaven and that he to believes he will be like the most high.

There seems to be a lot of people who believe the same thing Lucifer does.

I'm not one of them.

 

[Edward]

Please do not be condescending to me when I am only trying to have a rational conversation with you. I explained what the word Rapture means and I do not see us being secretly snatched up to Christ as scripture says everyone will see Him returning in the air, Saints and sinners.

So what's wrong with being willing or able to answer some of my most basic questions?

Like if there is no rapture, then why does it say He comes in the air?
If there is a rapture post trib, then when? Before or after he touches down at mount of Olives?
Before or after the Millenium?

Amillenial, I remember. So the Millenium of 1000 years is symbolic you say? Symbolic of what? Any scripture about that?

And so forth and so on...but your attitude seems to be one of fast dismissal of anything other than what you already believe. You wouldn't even discuss Daniel with me. Don't want to study that? FYI, the book of Daniel makes a point of explaining that the 1000 years is literal. But you wont even respond to that when I mention it.

I dunno what to think.

 

[Edward]

Please do not be condescending. Maybe you need to quit listening to those pretrib Pastors like I did and get into the Bible yourself reading the full context of end time events as it begins in Genesis and ends in Revelation.

I did.

 

[Edward]

I have been all through this thread and given many many scriptures as to the fact when Christ returns. It makes no difference to me if you do not agree with me, but I will let scripture stand on it's own for what has already been written.

That's code talk for this is not a bible study, I believe what I believe and no pion can teach me anything.

(Those are the vibes I get. I'm sorry)

 

[Edward]

Is there a different location in Revelation that shows the Rapture?

Actually, yes.

 

[dwb001]

Actually, yes.

And where is that?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

And yet I don't recall seeing anything definitive that you posted.
Maybe I missed it.
If it makes no difference to you if people believe you... then why do you continue to post?
If you want scripture to speak for itself... then in Revelation 20-21:1 we have the Rapture taking place for the Great White Throne judgement. Is there a different location in Revelation that shows the Rapture?

But you think that Revelation is past history... is that what I get from previous posts? So then where is the point I guess.

There was a time when I pondered the idea that the two witnesses were raptured when they ascend into heaven in a cloud.Then I realized the cloud they ascend into heaven in is a nuclear mushroom cloud.
Not a pleasant place to be at that time.A cloud of fire ,smoke and brimstone.

 

[Edward]

And where is that?

Revelation 2:25
Revelation 3:10
Revelation 16:15

Those are rapture scriptures.

 

[dwb001]

Revelation 2:25

To a specific Church... So not all churches are Raptured?
And the passage says to hold fast till He comes... No Rapture reference... Just hold on till He comes.

Revelation 3:10

Same again... specific Church.
Also... Jesus can keep saints from the hour of trial by removing them from the world... not Rapture... but death.
If this Church applied to you... your understanding would be 180 degrees from what you suggest.

Revelation 16:15

And that verse just says to watch.

Those are rapture scriptures.

Sorry... none of these verses rises to the level required to be a Rapture proof.
For all your examples there is a simpler, cleaner, more clear way of reading the passage that does not indicate Rapture.

 

[Oseas]

The church is not appointed unto God's wrath. So the church gets raptured out before God's wrath is poured out upon the earth.

Romans 2:5-16KJV

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of Wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.

12 For as many as have sinned without law (the Gentiles) shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law (the Jews) shall be Judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

16 In the Day(Lord's Day) when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

1 Peter 4:17-18
17 For the time is come that Judgment must begin at the house of GOD: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of GOD?

18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

 

[Edward]

To a specific Church... So not all churches are Raptured?
And the passage says to hold fast till He comes... No Rapture reference... Just hold on till He comes.

Same again... specific Church.
Also... Jesus can keep saints from the hour of trial by removing them from the world... not Rapture... but death.
If this Church applied to you... your understanding would be 180 degrees from what you suggest.

And that verse just says to watch.

Sorry... none of these verses rises to the level required to be a Rapture proof.
For all your examples there is a simpler, cleaner, more clear way of reading the passage that does not indicate Rapture.

It seems to be a difficult task for an Amillenial and a premillenial to talk or agree on certain things. Why does He tell us to watch when we know from scripture that Jesus 2nd coming is 1260 days after the abomination of desolation?

Is Daniel all symbolic to you too?

 

[dwb001]

It seems to be a difficult task for an Amillenial and a premillenial to talk or agree on certain things. Why does He tell us to watch when we know from scripture that Jesus 2nd coming is 1260 days after the abomination of desolation?

Is Daniel all symbolic to you too?

Who is an amil and who is a premil? I am not either of those silly labels.
Jesus tells us to watch so that we will be ready. I would think that was at least one obvious reason.
When did I say Revelation or Daniel were symbolic? I am a rather literal reader of the Bible.
Symbols and Symbolic are no where near the same thing in my understanding.
I believe John wrote what he saw.
So maybe just read what he wrote.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

It seems to be a difficult task for an Amillenial and a premillenial to talk or agree on certain things. Why does He tell us to watch when we know from scripture that Jesus 2nd coming is 1260 days after the abomination of desolation?

Is Daniel all symbolic to you too?

Scripture says no such thing.
Scripture says the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is abolished.

 

[Edward]

Who is an amil and who is a premil? I am not either of those silly labels.
Jesus tells us to watch so that we will be ready. I would think that was at least one obvious reason.
When did I say Revelation or Daniel were symbolic? I am a rather literal reader of the Bible.
Symbols and Symbolic are no where near the same thing in my understanding.
I believe John wrote what he saw.
So maybe just read what he wrote.

Aha, I did suspect that you guys don't all agree. I never really heard of pre-tribbers and post-tribbers being talked about as Amil and PreMil camps so I never used those terms before. But a message that I listened to recently he talked about that, and pre trib/post trib controversy and said that why they argue so much is because one reads the scriptures symbolically and the other reads it as literal. So, Amils read scripture symbolically and premils read it literally. I am pre trib (again, Lol!) and I found it to be true that I am am premil because I do read scripture as litrally. So I assumed since you (seemed to be) in the post trib camp that you must be Amil and read symbolically.

I find it very curious and interesting that you take scripture literally. (and be post trib!). I like you Brother. You stand your ground for what you believe in...and without sounding like one of the girls talking, lol!

Ok so you not Amil, you are post trib. We're back there again, lol. See what I get when I try to use a new term?! Sorry.

 

[dwb001]

Aha, I did suspect that you guys don't all agree. I never really heard of pre-tribbers and post-tribbers being talked about as Amil and PreMil camps so I never used those terms before. But a message that I listened to recently he talked about that, and pre trib/post trib controversy and said that why they argue so much is because one reads the scriptures symbolically and the other reads it as literal. So, Amils read scripture symbolically and premils read it literally. I am pre trib (again, Lol!) and I found it to be true that I am am premil because I do read scripture as litrally. So I assumed since you (seemed to be) in the post trib camp that you must be Amil and read symbolically.

I find it very curious and interesting that you take scripture literally. (and be post trib!). I like you Brother. You stand your ground for what you believe in...and without sounding like one of the girls talking, lol!

Ok so you not Amil, you are post trib. We're back there again, lol. See what I get when I try to use a new term?! Sorry.

No worries... thanks for taking the time to get some of that straight... honestly.

Now for my explanation... as I understand it. I hate these terms as they just divide people.
Actually I am not a post-trib... as that would mean that the Rapture happens right after the tribulation.
I am a pre-millennium (as in we are in the time before the millennium) post-millennium rapturist (as in the rapture happens after the millennium).
This appears to be a rare position to take, as I have not heard of anyone else taking this position.
Who knows... it might be very popular... but not in the circles I travel in.
My position on literal vs figurative is... read the text.
My approach to Revelation is to take it Literature-aly.
Treat the book as it is written... as a vision. Like a story. That doesn't mean it is made up(hyper allegory)... but it also isn't a math textbook(hyper literal).

I also practice "newspaper exegesis" which is keep the book of Revelation as a foundation and see if todays (or yesterdays) newspaper matches the text.
Never change the text of Revelation to match the newspaper... but if the time is now(or in the past) it will match the newspaper and Revelation perfectly. We will easily recognise the beasts and events of Revelation if we keep watch.

Any questions... from anyone... This has been my favourite book of the Bible for the past 3 years.
Revelation gives me much joy and comfort as I prepare for my death(health wise or martyrdom).