The Rapture

[dwb001]

That creates too many contradictions. If the rapture is after the Millenium then, Jesus comes in the air for His Bride after that?

Where are you getting "comes in the air"?
Show me in Revelation when Jesus gathers all the living and dead together if not at the Great White Throne.

So are you saying that, ...and so then we shall ever be with the Lord...doesn't take effect until after the Millenium? I can not wrap my mind around that!

Right.
Sinners in Hades.
Believers in Death.
Those who endure or are part of the first resurrection reign with Christ for 1k years.
Then the dead rise to judgement.
Then believers all rise to see the New Earth and Heaven.
Then we(all believers) live with Christ eternally on the New Earth.
That appears to be the pattern of Revelation.

Using Revelation please tell me where I get that wrong.

 

[dwb001]

Scripture please!

Rev 20:12-13.

 

[dwb001]

That’s correct.

Guess what day the resurrection occurs?

1000 years after Christs return.

 

[Edward]

Who said He comes back for the evil?


He comes for His church on earth, with His church that are in heaven, those who have died, some of whom were martyred in the great tribulation, to gather them together.



JLB

So that happens after the tribulation and the Millenium? At the last second He gathers His Bride to go to Heaven?

That would mean that the Bride has not been gathered to Jesus during the Millenial reign. Does that make sense to you?

 

[dwb001]

So that happens after the tribulation and the Millenium? At the last second He gathers His Bride to go to Heaven?

That would mean that the Bride has not been gathered to Jesus during the Millenial reign. Does that make sense to you?

Yes it does.

 

[Edward]

Yes it does.

So you saying that Jesus comes to earth and puts down evil and reigns for 1000 years...and the entire time, He ignores His Bride?

How could the Bride reign with Him if she has not been gathered to Him yet?

 

[dwb001]

So you saying that Jesus comes to earth and puts down evil and reigns for 1000 years...and the entire time, He ignores His Bride?

How could the Bride reign with Him if she has not been gathered to Him yet?

Only those that are part of the first Resurrection are part of the 1k year day of rest.
Look to Rev 20:5 for that reference.

 

[JLB]

1000 years after Christs return.

The dead in Christ, not the wicked dead, are resurrected at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.


“Them” refers to those who were resurrected from the dead.

… And the dead in Christ will rise first.


These verses are crystal clear, and teach us very specifically that:

• The resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture, occur at His coming.

• The resurrection of the dead in Christ is first, then those who are alive and remain (rapture) will be caught up together WITH THEM.

Again, Paul teaches the Church at Corinth the exact same thing.

• afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
1 Corinthians 15:20-24





JLB

 

[JLB]

So that happens after the tribulation and the Millenium? At the last second He gathers His Bride to go to Heaven?

That would mean that the Bride has not been gathered to Jesus during the Millenial reign. Does that make sense to you?

I am giving you what the scriptures say.

In order to understand the scriptures I have given then you would need to address them and discuss them.

These are the foundational scriptures that deal with the subject of the Rapture and Resurrection of the Church.

Can we please discuss what the scriptures pertaining to this subject actually say?

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

Do you agree that “we who are alive and remain” refers to those who will be Raptured?

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

Do you agree that “those who are asleep” refer to those who will be resurrected?




JLB

 

[dwb001]

The dead in Christ, not the wicked dead, are resurrected at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.


“Them” refers to those who were resurrected from the dead.

… And the dead in Christ will rise first.


These verses are crystal clear, and teach us very specifically that:

• The resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture, occur at His coming.

• The resurrection of the dead in Christ is first, then those who are alive and remain (rapture) will be caught up together WITH THEM.

Again, Paul teaches the Church at Corinth the exact same thing.

• afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
1 Corinthians 15:20-24





JLB

I disagree with your assessment that the verse is crystal clear.
So no references from Revelation, huh?

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm sorry you misunderstood me. I said that. Not you. What I mean is,

There is rapture scriptures and there is the 2nd coming scriptures and so it makes it easy to misunderstand that they are two different events, not one event. Many people do this. I did too for quite awhile! Until someone showed me the difference netween rapture scriptures and 2nd coming scriptures.

There's actually a lot of differences.

If Matthew 24:29-31 and 1Corinthians 15:50-58 were the only two places to read about us being caught up to Christ on the last day when He returns, as there are many more scriptures, then these two alone would prove there is no pretrib Rapture or two comings of Christ.

When I read through Matthew 24:1-44 Jesus was talking to the disciples who had ask Him three questions. The answers Jesus gave them with the first response of letting no man deceive you was for their time in things they would see, especially about the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70AD, but yet future things that must come first before His 2nd coming on the last day.

We are not to fear that of what will take place, but need to stand in a greater faith when we see all these things come to pass if we are still alive. It will be a time of greater preaching of the Gospel as when these things start coming to pass many will turn back to God before the door of salvation is closed forever when Christ returns.

 

[for_his_glory]

The word Rapture is not found in scripture as scripture calls it being caught up at the last trump, meaning the seventh trumpet of God, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Rev 14:6-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own in safety from the seven vial judgments that will take place, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.



After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, Matthew 24:29-31; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18. We are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.



Rev Chapters 19, 20 we the saints of God then come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus then binds Satan for a time (I don’t believe in a literal 1000 years, but only being symbolic in numbering) as then he will be loosed for awhile to try and attack the saints of God that are encamped in Gods protection. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.

(Reference

Genesis Chapter 49; Deuteronomy 31:28-30; Jeremiah 30:18-24; Daniel 12:1-4; Matthew 24:21-31; 25:31-33; John 6:37-40; Revelation 14:11-16

(Reference to symbolic numbering of 1000) - Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.





​

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture or in any concordances or Bible dictionaries. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:

1. To seize, carry off by force, obtain by robbery

2. To seize on, claim for one's self eagerly

3. To snatch out or away



The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day when He returns, John 6:40. It's no secret quiet rapture as many teach as the voice and the sound of a trumpet during the last day will be very loud and every eye will see Jesus return so it doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth as God sends His angels out to gather the saints of God from the four corners of the earth, Rev 1:7; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[Edward]

The word Rapture is not found in scripture

You keep saying this like it is significant. It depends on what language you have chosen to read as a bible. There are many languages in print and some use the term rapture and some don't. So...so what? It doesn't mean there wont be a rapture. It means in your translation of the bible, they translated it as, caught up rather than rapture.

WADR, if you would leave these type of juvenile points out of it, and say, answer a few of the more significant questions that I have asked you and you continue to ignore...we would have a better conversation.

 

[Edward]

(I don’t believe in a literal 1000 years, but only being symbolic in numbering)

Symbolic. You don't get into the book of Daniel very much, do you?

 

[Edward]

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day when He returns, John 6:40.

So the Latin translation is not scripture? What does Harpazo mean? "Caught up" (to meet Him in the air) comes from the Greek word Harpazo. So how is it not scripture?

Can you be clear for us about, does our rapture to meet the Lord in the air take place before or after the binding of satan? Before or after the Millenium?

 

[dwb001]

So the Latin translation is not scripture? What does Harpazo mean? "Caught up" (to meet Him in the air) comes from the Greek word Harpazo. So how is it not scripture?

Can you be clear for us about, does our rapture to meet the Lord in the air take place before or after the binding of satan? Before or after the Millenium?

After... according to Revelation.

 

[Edward]

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day when He returns, John 6:40. It's no secret quiet rapture as many teach as the voice and the sound of a trumpet during the last day will be very loud and every eye will see Jesus return so it doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth as God sends His angels out to gather the saints of God from the four corners of the earth, Rev 1:7; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 24:29-31.

Oh yes it does!

 

[Edward]

After... according to Revelation.

Let's hear her answer too, cuz all you in the post trib camp have been unclear about exactly when, before or after satan is bound? Before or after the Millenium? I don't think you guys all agree, lol.

Does He come in the air and take us first? Then He steps onto earth at the mount of Olives. So we meet Him in the air then come down again with Him to the Mount of Olives? Or does He go to the Mount of Olives first and conclude His business there and then go back up into the air so that we can meet Him in the air?

 

[Edward]

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture or in any concordances or Bible dictionaries. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:

1. To seize, carry off by force, obtain by robbery

2. To seize on, claim for one's self eagerly

3. To snatch out or away

What does this even mean? It seems like you are trying to attach a negative connotation to the passage through the word robbery. This does nothing to help your case. Robbery what? What is your thinking about this?

Question:
Once the Rapture starts and we are on our way to meet Jesus in the air, can you stop the people from rising in the air to meet Jesus? (No). So there is a force involved then! That will seize me and carry me upward by a force.

If Jesus came to you and seized on you to claim you for Himself by snatching you out or away...is this not Harpazo?

You have hurt your case with these assertions.

 

[for_his_glory]

You keep saying this like it is significant. It depends on what language you have chosen to read as a bible. There are many languages in print and some use the term rapture and some don't. So...so what? It doesn't mean there wont be a rapture. It means in your translation of the bible, they translated it as, caught up rather than rapture.

WADR, if you would leave these type of juvenile points out of it, and say, answer a few of the more significant questions that I have asked you and you continue to ignore...we would have a better conversation.

Please do not be condescending to me when I am only trying to have a rational conversation with you. I explained what the word Rapture means and I do not see us being secretly snatched up to Christ as scripture says everyone will see Him returning in the air, Saints and sinners.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Those alive and those in the grave as this is the time of the resurrection taught by Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31.