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The Rapture

dwb001 said:
Actually this verse does not prove that the Rapture and Resurrection occur at His coming.
At best it simply states that the living will not get there before the dead.
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Yes it most certainly does state plainly and clearly that those who are to be resurrected, God will bring WITH HIM

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17


  • And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The resurrection of the dead in Christ happens first, then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them.

This event occurs at the coming of the Lord.





JLB
 
JLB said:
Yes it most certainly does state plainly and clearly that those who are to be resurrected, God will bring WITH HIM

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17


  • And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
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Where is your Revelation reference for such an idea?
Are there dead Christians in the sea? When is the only time the sea gives up its dead?
So if the Christians in the seas are resurrected... it would only happen when that event is specifically mentioned.
JLB said:
The resurrection of the dead in Christ happens first, then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them.

This event occurs at the coming of the Lord.
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Where is your reference for that belief?
 
dwb001 said:
This verse does not say what you think it does.
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This verse says as plain as day the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

  • that we who are alive and remain = Rapture
  • those who are asleep = Resurrection

The resurrected ones and raptured ones are caught up together.


Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17




JLB
 
JLB said:
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



Here we easily see that the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.


Do you believe this is the first coming or the second coming.


Coming refers to Parousia and refers to the Second Coming of Christ, when He destroys the wicked and sets up His eternal kingdom on earth.


JLB
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I believe there is a first coming when Jesus comes for His Bride. He comes in the air and calls us up to Him, then the restrainer is taken away and goes to Heaven with the raptured Bride. Ver soon thereafter the tribulation begins.

Why does scripture tell us to be ready? That it could happen at any time?

Because after the 7 year treaty is signed with Israel, that starts the tribulation, and we know that it is divided into halved portions of 1260 days each. And scripture gives us a lot of prophecy, things that have to happen before the coming of Christ. And Daniel says that when you see the abomination of desolation, exactly 1260 days later is the Lord's return. (2nd coming to put down evil).

Two events, one is a surprise and the other we will know exactly when to expect Him. Now if I am wrong about the 1260 days until Jesus return, then what do I have wrong?

What means this 1260 days anyway?
 
JLB said:
This verse says as plain as day the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15
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This verse does not say that resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.
It only says that one group will not precede the other.
JLB said:
  • that we who are alive and remain = Rapture
  • those who are asleep = Resurrection

The resurrected ones and raptured ones are caught up together.


Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17
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And this verse does not give any timeframe.
 
dwb001 said:
Where is your reference for that belief?
Click to expand...

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
 
Edward said:
I believe there is a first coming when Jesus comes for His Bride.
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Jesus came once already, and appeared to His own and was crucified, He will come and appear a second to gather us together.


so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28




JLB
 
dwb001 said:
This verse does not say that resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.
It only says that one group will not precede the other.

And this verse does not give any timeframe.
Click to expand...

The timeframe is plainly stated as His coming.


Please go and study the references about His coming, and the resurrection of the dead.



JLB
 
JLB said:
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the (Rapture) coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep (in Christ and set to be Raptured). 1 Thessalonians 4:15
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So first when the Lord comes in the air for His Bride, He will raise up and transform those who have died in Christ, then transform the ones in Christ who are alive at that time.

After the rapture it will get bad very fast, because the restrainer is no longer on earth, plus the entire church is gone. Then after thr tribulation of those days, and Jesus makes His 2nd coming (to put down evil) and set up His millenial Kingdom. After that is over the dead who were not in Christ are raised unto condemnation, the 2nd death.
 
JLB said:
The timeframe is plainly stated as His coming.


Please go and study the references about His coming, and the resurrection of the dead.
Click to expand...
Still no Revelation reference.
And I think you are wrong in your application of these verses.
Please provide a list of references about His coming and the resurrection of the dead that are found in Revelation.
 
Edward said:
So first when the Lord comes in the air for His Bride, He will raise up and transform those who have died in Christ, then transform the ones in Christ who are alive at that time.

After the rapture it will get bad very fast, because the restrainer is no longer on earth, plus the entire church is gone. Then after thr tribulation of those days, and Jesus makes His 2nd coming (to put down evil) and set up His millenial Kingdom. After that is over the dead who were not in Christ are raised unto condemnation, the 2nd death.
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Except the resurrection of the dead would include the Christian dead.
Great White Throne is the time of the Rapture.
You have to go up with Christ because the Earth is going down.
 
JLB said:
Jesus came once already, and appeared to His own and was crucified, He will come and appear a second to gather us together.


so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28




JLB
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So He's coming back for evil first and He gets His Bride later? Does that make sense? I don't see it.
 
dwb001 said:
1 Thessalonians is not in Revelation.
So not so plainly stated.
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This thread title is about the Rapture.

I have presented scriptures from Jesus Christ that pertain to the Rapture.


The Rapture occurs at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


Do you understand that “we who are alive and remain” refers to the Rapture?




JLB
 
dwb001 said:
Except the resurrection of the dead would include the Christian dead.
Great White Throne is the time of the Rapture.
You have to go up with Christ because the Earth is going down.
Click to expand...

That creates too many contradictions. If the rapture is after the Millenium then, Jesus comes in the air for His Bride after that?

So are you saying that, ...and so then we shall ever be with the Lord...doesn't take effect until after the Millenium? I can not wrap my mind around that!
 
JLB said:
This thread title is about the Rapture.

I have presented scriptures from Jesus Christ that pertain to the Rapture.


The Rapture occurs at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


Do you understand that “we who are alive and remain” refers to the Rapture?
Click to expand...
And I asked for where that is in Revelation.
Do you understand that the verse you are reading does not mandate a time when this will happen.
Verse 15 says that some will be alive at the coming of the Lord... and some will not.
 
Edward said:
So He's coming back for evil first and He gets His Bride later? Does that make sense? I don't see it.
Click to expand...

Who said He comes back for the evil?


He comes for His church on earth, with His church that are in heaven, those who have died, some of whom were martyred in the great tribulation, to gather them together.



JLB
 
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