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The Rapture

FactsPlease said:
"Glorified bodies" is not in the Bible.
Only spirit being exist in Heaven.
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So what's your point? That spirits can not have a physical body?

Ok. Based on what? Jesus proved to the disciples that he was real and not a just a spirit. He ate with them too. That's very significant. It's also significant that you didn't make comment about that.

If you've been to the spiritual realm and know all about it, then pray tell! Otherwise I may have to assume that you are one like the rest of us who see through a glass darkly for now.

You shouldn't take pot shots at posts without giving an alternate (theory) belief of your own. So tell me, I'm listening.
 
FactsPlease said:
God is spirit (energy), angels and demons are spirit.
They can SOMEHOW become physical, but not in Heaven.
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What kind of rule would that be?! ...Not in Heaven you guys!

Somehow you say. In other words, you don't really know.

But it's ok. I don't have all the answers either.
 
FactsPlease said:
God is spirit (energy), angels and demons are spirit.
Click to expand...
We are Spirit too, but our spirit is contained in a human body for the time being :) .
FactsPlease said:
They can SOMEHOW become physical, but not in Heaven.
Click to expand...
Edward said a glorified body and that seems to fit because of what we are told in this verse .
1 Corinthians 15​
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I see in this verse a suggestion of an "incorruptible body" because we already know a Spirit is not corruptible .
 
hawkman said:
We are Spirit too, but our spirit is contained in a human body for the time being :) .

Edward said a glorified body and that seems to fit because of what we are told in this verse .
1 Corinthians 15​
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I see in this verse a suggestion of an "incorruptible body" because we already know a Spirit is not corruptible .
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I just realized something. When the rapture happens and we are transformed in the twinkling of an eye...that means that we Jesus returns to the earth to put down His enemies and set up His Millenial kingdom for 1000 years where we shall reign with Him...

We would still be in our new spiritual transformed bodies when He brings all His saints with Him. So during the millenium, there will be mortals and immortals living on earth.
 
Edward said:
We all know how the temple of God is laid out, right? Outer court, inner court and the Holy of Holies which is the inner sanctum where the Priest talks with God.

Prepare your heart. Scripture says that He will make us Kings and Priests. Also it says, as a man think in his heart, so is he...We are the church and our Holy of Holies is our heart. So prepare thine heart with all diligence, and go into your own Holy of Holies (inside of yourself) and speak with Him. Develop a relationship with Him, listen to Him. Obey Him. Then He wont say, I never knew you.

Good topic.
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Looks like you forgot the "Holy Place".

Outer courts for everyone.
Inner courts for Jews only.
Holy place for the priests.
Holy of Holies only for the High Priest once a year.
 
dwb001 said:
Looks like you forgot the "Holy Place".

Outer courts for everyone.
Inner courts for Jews only.
Holy place for the priests.
Holy of Holies only for the High Priest once a year.
Click to expand...

Isn't the Holy place the same thing as the Holy of Holies?
I thought they was the same.
 
Ezekiel chapter 13 to document the fly away doctrine, rapture is a Lie. God hates the rapture theory. Ezekiel chapter 34, God is against the fake shepherds who teach false doctrine and exploit His sheep. Jesus warns us in John chapter 15, about branches who fail to produce fruit. Dead wood is cast into the fire. Those who produce fruit, the branches are pruned to produce more fruit. HUGIES in Hebrew means = sound doctrine. The false brethren are going into lake of fire with satan. Dead wood is worthless, and only good for fuel for the fire. Get out of the preaching business fast, and pray and hope you wont be in that group. I'm not judging anyone. God hates false preachers.
 
The word Rapture is not found in scripture as scripture calls it being caught up at the last trump, meaning the seventh trumpet of God, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Rev 14:6-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own in safety from the seven vial judgments that will take place, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.

After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, Matthew 24:29-31; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18. We are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.

Rev Chapters 19, 20 we the saints of God then come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus then binds Satan for a time (I don’t believe in a literal 1000 years, but only being symbolic in numbering) as then he will be loosed for awhile to try and attack the saints of God that are encamped in Gods protection. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.
(Reference:)
Genesis Chapter 49; Deuteronomy 31:28-30; Jeremiah 30:18-24; Daniel 12:1-4; Matthew 24:21-31; 25:31-33; John 6:37-40; Revelation 14:11-16

(Reference to symbolic numbering of 1000) - Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.​

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture or in any concordances or Bible dictionaries. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:

1. To seize, carry off by force, obtain by robbery

2. To seize on, claim for one's self eagerly

3. To snatch out or away

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day when He returns, John 6:40. It's no secret quiet rapture as many teach as the voice and the sound of a trumpet during the last day will be very loud and every eye will see Jesus return so it doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth as God sends His angels out to gather the saints of God from the four corners of the earth, Rev 1:7; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 24:29-31.
 
for_his_glory said:
The word Rapture is not found in scripture as scripture calls it being caught up at the last trump, meaning the seventh trumpet of God, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Rev 14:6-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own in safety from the seven vial judgments that will take place, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.

After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, Matthew 24:29-31; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18. We are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.

Rev Chapters 19, 20 we the saints of God then come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus then binds Satan for a time (I don’t believe in a literal 1000 years, but only being symbolic in numbering) as then he will be loosed for awhile to try and attack the saints of God that are encamped in Gods protection. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.
(Reference:)
Genesis Chapter 49; Deuteronomy 31:28-30; Jeremiah 30:18-24; Daniel 12:1-4; Matthew 24:21-31; 25:31-33; John 6:37-40; Revelation 14:11-16

(Reference to symbolic numbering of 1000) - Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.​

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture or in any concordances or Bible dictionaries. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:

1. To seize, carry off by force, obtain by robbery

2. To seize on, claim for one's self eagerly

3. To snatch out or away

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day when He returns, John 6:40. It's no secret quiet rapture as many teach as the voice and the sound of a trumpet during the last day will be very loud and every eye will see Jesus return so it doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth as God sends His angels out to gather the saints of God from the four corners of the earth, Rev 1:7; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 24:29-31.
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I can't agree with you on this. There are two events. One event, Jesus comes for His Bride to take her to the place that He has prepared for her. The 2nd event Jesus comes to put down evil and set up His millenial reign.

Revelation 16:15
15 “Look, I will come as unexpectedly as a thief! Blessed are all who are watching for me, who keep their clothing ready so they will not have to walk around naked and ashamed.”.../NLT

Revelation 1:7
7 Look! He comes with the clouds of heaven.
And everyone will see him—
even those who pierced him.
And all the nations of the world
will mourn for him.
Yes! Amen.../NLT

Consider both of those verses. How can He come like a thief in the night, and every eye see Him, at the same time? Which one is it?

Or could it be that these verses are talking about two events?

I got my notes now! I'm reaady...

How many more scriptures would you like, I thik I have them all. I remember that when I posted that two hour video about the rapture, that you said it was too long for you to watch. I found a different video where the man explains it in less than 1 hour. I could post that video for you if you like, or, I can simply discuss it and post you my scriptures. Is 1 hour too long?
 
MickeyDD said:
There are many today who don't believe in a rapture. Yes the word is in the Latin Vulgate but the original Greek meaning is "caught up" or "snatched away".
Part 1. THE RAPTURE
I was in church one Sunday and during a worship song, being sung in a language I don’t speak or understand, it came to my mind that in the coming months things will become very difficult. An instant later I heard in my mind “prepare your heart”. I did not know where that came from and couldn’t think of any scripture with that exact phrase. And by chance and accident I found myself studying the rapture and certain parables. All the commentaries and expositions repeatedly used a certain phrase. You guessed it, “prepare your heart, preparedness of heart.
The Blessed Hope:
It’s what life is all about; an absolutely stunning event is coming and it will soon take place. An event that cannot be denied by clever detractors or vain philosophical rhetoric.
It may seem strange to most that at some unknown conjecture in time true believers in Christ will be taken up; snatched out of this world (or dimension as we know it) into another realm. It is the blessed hope.
At the last supper Christ made a fascinating promise.
Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (Jn 14:1-3)
Without question this statement is profound. Jesus knew that He would have to leave before the Holy Spirit would come and be given. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (Jn 16:7). It’s interesting to realize the opposite will occur before Jesus can return. Let that sink in. the indwelling Holy Spirit will be withdrawn when Jesus returns. What does that mean? The church, the body of Christ, indwelt with the Holy Spirit will be taken away. Another fact disclosed is that we will actually have a specially tailored environment prepared by Christ. If God prepared the world as we know it in six days, we can’t begin to grasp what’s in heaven. But as it is written, since the beginning of the world Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither has it entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that wait on Him...for them that love Him. Read 1 Kings 10 here
I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also. This is the most important thing in all of life and the source of all our joy.
It is important to understand there is a Jewish wedding tradition at play here. The ancient Jewish wedding ceremony is linked to the language of Jesus teaching. It’s regrettable that the Jewish roots of Christianity have been lost due to the anti – semitic mind set of the early and continuing Catholic church. We have lost a lot of scriptural perception as a result. The Jewish wedding celebration and ceremonies of the first century were quite different from our modern understanding.
The marriage started with the betrothal (ketubah) initiated by the bridegroom and established the marriage covenant. The (mohar) – was a price negotiated to purchase his bride. Just as the church is the purchased possession bought with a price, the blood of Christ. You were sealed with the holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession (Eph 1:13b, 14a). once the price was paid the bride was set apart (sanctified…. positional sanctification) for her bridegroom. As a symbol of the covenant relation established the groom and bride drank from one cup of wine. It should be noted after the groom drank and presented the cup to the bride it was at this point she could accept or refuse by not drinking from the cup. This sealed the covenant.
It is most interesting that the bride must start a ritual of purification (mikvah) within four days before the wedding. It was a ritual of immersion in water as part of a physical and spiritual preparation of the wedding ceremony.
After the betrothal ceremony the bridegroom would go to his father’s house and prepare a room for her. This often involved construction. After the room was prepared a feast would be prepared. And all during this time he remained apart from her. Though not married yet they are committed by a covenant. The bride does not know when he will return. When the time comes, he leaves his fathers house accompanied by the best man and the male attendants usually a torch lit procession to retrieve his bride. Preceding his coming, there would be blowing of shofar’s and a shout, “the bridegroom is coming”! She is to be prepared ready to go with him in her wedding attire even though she doesn’t know the exact time of his return. She is actually picked up and carried to the fathers’ house on a palanquin, her feet never touching the ground. The bride and groom would then enter the bridal chamber and remain seven days during the wedding feast. When they came out, the brides’ veil was now removed for all to see her, the wedding celebration continued seven more days.
This is important to understand that this is the context of Jesus parable of the 10 virgins.
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Truly I say unto you, I know you not. (Matt 25:1-12)
The parable Jesus told involves wedding preparations and a warning. It's easy to see more into this parable and symbolize things not there. But what is pointed out is…..
10 virgins – representing expectant Christian community (the church) Even though commentators warn not to consider the number of unprepared virgins it is alarming to see half were not prepared and should be noted.
The bridegroom delays (tarries)
Overriding theme – preparedness, even in face of long delay.
It’s not that the foolish didn’t bring oil, it’s that they didn’t bring enough. The main theme stresses preparedness for the coming. More than a passive watchfulness is required, there must be behavior acceptable to the master. It must be pointed out that the foolish had no vessels to be constantly replenishing oil in the lamp.
At midnight the cry rang out! Midnight is the symbol for the climax of eschatology. The bridegroom comes, the wise enter and the door is shut. The cries of the foolish are to no avail because this is the consummation of the age. They even desired and were waiting to enter the kingdom but never prepared their heart. Ponder the solemn words “I know you not”. It is the question of the union of the life with Christ. The distinction is between worldly Christian’s of now and then devotion and consistent, habitual devotion that endures the test; not always seen or heard in outward appearance, but a deep abiding within the heart of watching and anticipating the coming of our Lord and savior!
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Amen. Jesus is coming soon.

We see three main things that occur at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

The first thing to occur is the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

  • that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

The secong thing to occur is the rapture.

  • And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air... 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

The third thing that will take place at His coming is the destruction of the antichrist and all the wicked.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8



JLB
 
JLB said:
Amen. Jesus is coming soon.

We see three main things that occur at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

The first thing to occur is the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

  • that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

The secong thing to occur is the rapture.

  • And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air... 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

The third thing that will take place at His coming is the destruction of the antichrist and all the wicked.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8



JLB
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Actually, if you read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 it gives a better picture of it.

13 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died[f] so you will not grieve like people who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him the believers who have died.

15 We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died.[g] 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died[h] will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words..../NLT

This is a rapture scripture. We know this because we meet the Lord in the air, and we don't come right back down again with Him on the Mt of Olives!

He comes for His Bride alone, to rapture the church. No scripture supports that coming for His Bride is the same trip as His 2nd coming when He puts His enemies down.

If it is one visit in which both events (Rapture/bind satan) then explain the contradictions in scripture about them.

Revelation 16:15
15 “Look, I will come as unexpectedly as a thief! Blessed are all who are watching for me, who keep their clothing ready so they will not have to walk around naked and ashamed.”.../NLT

Revelation 1:7
7 Look! He comes with the clouds of heaven.
And everyone will see him—
even those who pierced him.
And all the nations of the world
will mourn for him..../NLT

So how can it be that, He comes as a thief in the night, and that, every eye will see Him...in the same trip.

During the Rapture only saints will see Him, at the 2nd coming, every eye will see Him.
 
Edward said:
Actually, if you read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 it gives a better picture of it.

13 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died[f] so you will not grieve like people who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him the believers who have died.

15 We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died.[g] 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died[h] will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words..../NLT

This is a rapture scripture. We know this because we meet the Lord in the air, and we don't come right back down again with Him on the Mt of Olives!

He comes for His Bride alone, to rapture the church. No scripture supports that coming for His Bride is the same trip as His 2nd coming when He puts His enemies down.

If it is one visit in which both events (Rapture/bind satan) then explain the contradictions in scripture about them.

Revelation 16:15
15 “Look, I will come as unexpectedly as a thief! Blessed are all who are watching for me, who keep their clothing ready so they will not have to walk around naked and ashamed.”.../NLT

Revelation 1:7
7 Look! He comes with the clouds of heaven.
And everyone will see him—
even those who pierced him.
And all the nations of the world
will mourn for him..../NLT

So how can it be that, He comes as a thief in the night, and that, every eye will see Him...in the same trip.

During the Rapture only saints will see Him, at the 2nd coming, every eye will see Him.
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The 1 Thes 4:13-18 passage better matches up with Rev 20:12-13.
The only verse in Revelation that I find matches the classical Rapture narrative is after the millennium.
 
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