The Rapture

[JLB]

No translations take place at the 2nd coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

 

[JLB]

These scriptures tell that we don't know when He is coming so keep watch. So why would they teach us this if we know that Jesus returns 1260 days after the abomination of desolation?

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
1Thessalinians 5:4

 

[JLB]

So when we know exactly when the 2nd coming will be, why did the Lord teach us the doctrine of imminency?

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
1Thessalinians 5:4

 

[for_his_glory]

It's very easy to confuse rapture scriptures with 2nd coming scriptures. But if you pay very close attention to the scriptures you can tell that it's referring to two events. If a single event where rapture and bind satan is the same trip...then that creates a lot of contrdictions in scripture which should not be. And that's because it speaks about two events.

At the 2nd coming when He binds satan He is come to fight and conquer and set up His millenial reign on earth. Regardless, so what about the contradictions if you say it is a single event?
Some scriptures say,
AT the rapture we get translated and changed.
No translations take place at the 2nd coming.

The saints go to heaven at the rapture.
The saints return to the earth with Jesus after the tribulation.

The rapture we are told is Imminent, be ready at any moment.
The 2nd coming is not imminent.

Rapture is before the day of wrath.
2nd coming concludes the day of wrath.

Rapture He comes in the air.
2nd coming He comes to the ground..

Rapture affects Believers only so is as a thief in the night.
2nd coming affects all men and every eye will see Him.

These are only a portion of the contraddictions made when we assume that both the rapture and the 2nd coming happen in the same event. I have more scriptures for any pf them so just take your pick and perchance explain the discrepencies for me? And one more thing for this post...



Do you have to be so dogmatic in conversation when we're all trying to figure out the truth? I tell you what, consider this scripture and give me your interpretation of it and the who what where how of which it speaks, ok? Please.

Isaiah 26:19-21
19 Your dead shall live;
Together with [k]my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.

Take Refuge from the Coming Judgment​

20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her [l]blood,
And will no more cover her slain.../NKJV

Yes, I have to be dogmatic in what I present with scripture as it is I alone that will stand before the Lord to give an account of the words of God I have taught others, so yes, facts are very important for teaching when you put the whole of scripture together. I do not go by a majority rule socially acceptable word of God like I use to when I believed in the pretrib theory, but want to know truth as I have been dupped to many times by false doctrines of man. God told us to be prepared and to endure unto the end when Christ returns.

Those two verses 20, 21 you gave are self explanatory especially when you read all of Isaiah 26 for the full context as we trust in the Lord for ever as He is our everlasting strength in whom helps us to endure all tribulations until the day of Christ return on the last day. We are to take refuge from the coming destruction that will occur within the seven trumpets sounding with the seventh one that will usher in the time when the son of perdition comes to fruition causing all to take the mark of this beast and if you do not renounce Christ and bow down to this beast you will die a martyr's death. We are not to fear that which must come first, but be prepared to be part of the Bride Jesus is coming back for.

 

[JLB]

19 Your dead shall live;
Together with [k]my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.

Your dead shall live; Together with my dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; For your dew is like the dew of herbs, And the earth shall cast out the dead.
Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past.
For behold, the LORD comes out of His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; The earth will also disclose her blood, And will no more cover her slain.
Isaiah 26:19-21

This scripture is describing the resurrection.

The rapture and resurrection are one event that tales place at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

 

[Edward]

This scripture is describing the resurrection.

So who is it that enters their chambers to hide from the indignation?

And shouldn't the indignation be over already if this is was His 2nd coming? Jesus coming back ends the great tribulation. Right? So who goes in the chambers and to hide from what?

 

[Edward]

Yes, I have to be dogmatic in what I present with scripture as it is I alone that will stand before the Lord to give an account of the words of God I have taught others, so yes, facts are very important for teaching when you put the whole of scripture together. I do not go by a majority rule socially acceptable word of God like I use to when I believed in the pretrib theory, but want to know truth as I have been dupped to many times by false doctrines of man. God told us to be prepared and to endure unto the end when Christ returns.

I suppose that we have nothing to talk about then. You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe,

You have not convinced me that the rapture is at the 2nd coming.

 

[for_his_glory]

I suppose that we have nothing to talk about then. You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe,

You have not convinced me that the rapture is at the 2nd coming.

Not out to convince anyone, but only giving my understanding of scripture just like you and everyone else.

I use to believe in a pretrib for many years as at one time I believed everything that came from the pulpit for after all they are Pastors and should know what they are talking about. But, when I really started studying those teachings, especially their go to in Rev 4:1 they love to use as a proof scripture, I could not find anything in that verse or the entire Bible that taught a pretrib Rapture of the Church. All I could find was us being caught up to Christ on the last day when He returns.

The main reason I teach against it is because those Christians who are still alive during the seven trumpets sounding and seeing the son of perdition come to fruition, which would not have to come if we are already out of here, could possibly renounce Christ and take the mark of the beast because Jesus never returned before all of this takes place.

 

[Edward]

I use to believe in a pretrib for many years as at one time I believed everything that came from the pulpit for after all they are Pastors and should know what they are talking about. But, when I really started studying those teachings, especially their go to in Rev 4:1 they love to use as a proof scripture, I could not find anything in that verse or the entire Bible that taught a pretrib Rapture of the Church.

That's because it's not Revelation 4:1. It is Revelation 3:10

The main reason I teach against it is because those Christians who are still alive during the seven trumpets sounding and seeing the son of perdition come to fruition, which would not have to come if we are already out of here

You have to think ahead. What do you think is going to happen on earth when one day there's a whole lot of people missing? There's going to be many fence sitters and lukewarm Christians that were left behind....and some of their family are gone too so they will know right off, that, uh-oh, it is real and I was left behind. So there's going to be a lot of people saved after the tribulation that were left behind. It's going to be a big revival. And those who seek the Lord at that point, and don't take the mark of the beast, and endure until the end, will be saved. The separation of the sheep and goats.

I don't expect you to believe that, but it's in there. It is good to stand pat on what one believes and to dismiss other ideas because of the thought that I know what I believe so need no instruction on any of that is in fact probably a mistake. You said yourself in an earlier post that, in the last days knowledge shall be increased. IDk, You could short change yourself by never considering that there is more to know, or that, you might even be wrong. You've been wrong before like all of us.

It is the season to be pressing into the increased knowledge that is currently circling the planet right now. Ask the HS to guide you into all truth. That way, you don't have to believe Edward, lol!

 

[for_his_glory]

That's because it's not Revelation 4:1. It is Revelation 3:10

All the pretrib teachers that I first listened to back in the 70"s all used Rev 4:1 to support their theories.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

As I understand this verse I believe it means the hour of temptation that will come after the sounding of the first six trumpets and the chaos this will throw the world into. Man will be looking for some type of savior and the temptation will be that of taking the mark of the beast who falsely promises peace and safety.

You have to think ahead. What do you think is going to happen on earth when one day there's a whole lot of people missing?

Please give me the scriptures for this.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Now, compare these verses with John 5:28-29

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The catching up of the Church being the body of Christ will only happen when Christ returns on the last day as He only returns one time and after that the door of salvation is closed forever like that of the days of Noah who entered the ark (Christ) and those left behind perished. One in the field left behind as the other is caught up to meet Christ in the air. No second chances as even that is not found in scripture.

I do not go by what a man teaches, but that which has already been written in all the scriptures I have given.


Let me ask you this. What would be the purpose of the seven trumpets sounding and the purpose of the coming of the son of perdition causing all to take the mark of the beast if we are already out of here?


John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
John 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Edward]

You're consistent, I'll give you that.

 

[for_his_glory]

You're consistent, I'll give you that.

 

[Oseas]

I can not fathom that our Lord would let HIS bride go through the tribulation.

Presumptions and speculations, conjectures, imaginations, opinions, they mean nothing and are good for nothing, that's exactly the way the Devil likes. What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, understand?

What does the Word of GOD say? Acts 14:22 - Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of GOD. (This wonderful event will be acccording Revelation 11:15 to 18-there will be a spiritual WAR-, and Luke 20:35-36). Get ready

Around 2000 years ago JESUS said: And this gospel of the KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the END come. He that shall endure unto the END, the same shall be saved.

Having the disciples asked to JESUS what would be (1) the signs of the END of the world, and (2) the signs of His COMING, then JESUS listed the follow happenings/events as is written in Matthew 24:1-8:-
- 1- Appearance and manifestation of false Christs/messiah ;
- 2- Wars and rumours of war ;
- 3- nation shall rise against nation ;
- 4- and kingdom against kingdom;(Kingdom of GOD X Kingdom of Devil-Revelation 11:15&18, and 12:7-12-check it.); - 5- famines ;
- 6- pestilences ; and
- 7- earthquakes in divers places.
- 8- ALL these are the beginning of sorrows. (and signs of JESUS' coming, and of the END of the world of Devil)

By the way, it's hard to say, but the Truth is that we have entered in the period of sorrows revealed by JESUS (the testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy), a time of great sufferings until the END of this current world, and of the coming of JESUS. There shall be upon the earth distress of nations, and men's hearts failing them for fear looking those things which are coming on the earth. - Luke 21:25-28.

Be sure or understand that the ETERNAL punishment had a PREDETERMINED TIME to start, I must tell it has already started with the current beginning of sorrows according the list of events above described, the question is that it is also the beginning of the ETERNAL chastisement, it will NEVER END from now on, it will NEVER STOP, it is for ever and ever. Get ready.

Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain-Isaiah 26: 20-21.
Matthew 24:21-22; Psalm 91, and many other biblicals references.
21 Then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
May our Lord GOD bless us and keep us, and give us His protection until we reach that most wonderful day - the day 1335 - Daniel 12:v.12. Amen.

Example: if, yes, if we were to count from today, day by day, what day and year would it be or would the day 1335 fall? Do the math just for curiosity.

 

[Oseas]

There's probably going to be a big revival by the Christians that were left behind in the rapture when they realize how they messed up by not being ready or having oil. Many will be martyred. Because as soon as the rapture happens, the Tribulation starts.

No, there will not have any kind of revival, that's a devilish fantasy teached by false preachers of the Word of GOD.
Thinking and preaching such fantasy that's from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective.

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD. The Word of GOD, which is for ever and ever, says: Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of GOD-Acts 14:22.

Except these days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake these days shall be shortened. Get ready

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - PUT THIS IN YOUR MIND ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - THE RED SEA AND THE RED DRAGON ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of...

purebibleforum.com

 

[Edward]

Presumptions and speculations, conjectures, imaginations, opinions, they mean nothing and are good for nothing, that's exactly the way the Devil likes. What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, understand?

Is that what they are?! You have made a common mistake. You are confusing Tribulation (difficulties & Trials) with the Great Tribulation which is when God pours out His wrath upon the earth, the great, tribulation.

We all experience trials and trribulations in life, it builds character. But not all are destined to wrath.

Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.../

Now think about that for a moment. It will be worse than ever before in the history of the world. God will bring judgement against the world for rejecting Him as messiah. This will turn many hearts towards the Lord. Like they say, there are no atheists in foxholes. Hard times make hard people turn to God. Scripture clearly states the purpose of the great tribulation is to punish and test the inhabitants of the earth...right?

But enough about the unbelievers. Let's talk us. We believe. We were born again. Jesus loves you so much that while you were still a sinner, He (literally) died, so that YOU can live. Do you understand that? Do you really believe it? You probbly seen the movie, Passion of the Christ? That is what He did for you. He did that for me.

Does anyone really understand God's Love for us? He did that for us so that we can live. He calls us, His Bride, His people. (John 15:13) 13 There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.../NLT

And still others He calls Bride. Think about that for a moment. I'm guessing you are a man and probably have or had a Wife and Family. Remember those times? Somebody hurts my Wife and I'll kill them. Hurt my kids, I'll kill them. Fight to the death for them. We undertand these because we have lived it.

Well that's how the Lord feels about us. If you understand that, now tell me again how our Lord is going to allow His people and His Bride to experience the very worst and terrible moments in earth history...!!!

You sir are funny and haven't thought this through. Now I am no prophet. I am no Billy Graham. I am nobody. But I believe and trust Jesus because through the last 13 years I have learned some things about the Lord. He has taught me well. I know what I know. I have a good inkling that Jesus loves us more than we did our Wives. It doesn't take a Billy Graham to begin to understand the depths of God's Love towards us. Whe you begin to hold that idea within your heart all of a sudden it's easy to understand that, There is no way that Jesus is going to let His church experience the wrath of God!!! And you guys funny to say so!! Bless you all, you buncha thick headed post tribbers, lol.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
10 And they speak of how you are looking forward to the coming of God’s Son from heaven—Jesus, whom God raised from the dead. He is the one who has rescued us from the terrors of the coming judgment.../NLT

10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.../NKJV

Show me the scripture what says the Bride or church goes through the wrath of God. We are not appointed to the Wrath of God Brother. We are the saved ones!

 

[Edward]

I went from being taught pretrib rapture and believed that for awhile but then started hearing the debates about midtrib or post trib, and I admit, those camps make a good case for mid or post. So I went post trib for awhile. Then I just kept on feeling less than 100% on it so kept reading and studying and hearing the voices of others. The Lord was being silen to me about the rapture, all he wanted to teach me about was His Love for us. And He did!

It was at that time when I began to understand (who He is) how much He really loves us, that I doubted that it could be post trib. So I went midtrib for awhile. It started sounding preposturous that the Bride goes through the great tribulation! But someone mentioned what makes me think that we're better than everyone else in history that gets tribulations? So I bought it and went midtrib.

But at that time, I didn't understand the difference between tribulations such as are common to man, and the wrath of God that brings great tribulation. Huge Difference!

So I've come full circle back to pretrib.

 

[JLB]

So who is it that enters their chambers to hide from the indignation?

And shouldn't the indignation be over already if this is was His 2nd coming? Jesus coming back ends the great tribulation. Right? So who goes in the chambers and to hide from what?

Yes, the coming of the Lord is after the tribulation.

The resurrection occurs at the coming of the Lord.

The rapture occurs at the coming of the Lord.

The destruction of the antichrist occurs at the coming of the Lord.


This things we know for sure, as they are plainly written as the word of the Lord.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


Do you believe the coming of the Lord is His first coming?


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

So who is it that enters their chambers to hide from the indignation?

What are these chambers?

Where are these chambers?

Who is hiding?


The church will be high above the earth with the Lord Jesus when He pours out vengeance upon the wicked.


Do you believe the Day of the Lord, the Day of Christ is before the tribulation?

The Day of the Lord is when His vengeance is poured out upon the wicked.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4


Obviously the Day of the Lord Jesus Christ when He gathers us together to Himself, is after the antichrist is revealed.

• Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed

The antichrist will revealed and do his work of deception, then the Lord will destroy him, at Hs coming.

• And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Below I have explained with scripture that the True Church of Christ (body of Christ) alive at His coming or a sleep in the grave will be caught up to Christ on the last day when Christ returns.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Church, which represents the bride of Christ, will face seeing much tribulation as it will be hard to bare seeing Gods wrath poured out on the unjust as those who are anointed by God's Holy Spirit are sent out to preach to them before we enter into the kingdom of God (New Jerusalem). There are many false teachings that teach we are taken out of here before some seven year Great Tribulation, but there is no scripture that speaks of a seven year Great Tribulation, but only 3 1/2 years. Some also teach that after Rev Chapter 4 the Church is no longer here on earth. If this were the case then why did Jesus say that those who endure until the end will be saved. The end of what, the end of days or as scripture calls it that great and terrible day of the Lord when final judgment will be passed as the Sheep are separated from the goats and the goats are cast into the lake of fire with Satan, the beast and false prophets.

By studying all the scriptures below in Revelations I come to the conclusion we will see much tribulation, but not to fear what must come, but stand strong in the faith of Christ Jesus as the Holy Spirit strengthens us to stand and endure until the coming of the Lord as God has a place prepared for us in the wilderness as His wrath passes over the earth, Rev 12:6. We need to be His witnesses as a faithful servant until He returns. God's wrath is not for the elect of God as they are kept from it falling on them and when we see the abomination that causes desolation, Daniel Chapter 7; Matthew 24:15-22; Rev Chapter 13, we are to flee from taking its mark as we stand in a greater faith in Christ that we need not fear that which has to come first before Christ returns, Matthew 10:28, but that we need to be prepared as His Bride when He does return on the last day and destroys the beast and false prophet at His coming, Rev 19.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God as we are also His disciples.

Mat 24:13,29-31 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is telling us to watch for the signs of His coming and to overcome so that our names are not blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 5:13; 6:17; 7:1-5 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days as God's wrath begins with the opening of the seventh seal.

Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were, which means those of the elect of God who refuse to take the mark of the beast and will die a martyr's death for their faith in Christ.

Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation is the fullness of the Gentiles who also died a martyr's death for the sake of Christ.

Rev 8:13 Three woes are that of warning the people on earth that the last three trumpets are about to sound.

Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about mystery Babylon ruling the world as a one world government. 666 represents the number of the beast and the mark is the action of the hands and thoughts of the mind as many will be deceived and accept this mark.

Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children who are still alive at this time as they are being protected against the vial judgments that will fall on those who have rejected Christ.

Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. The elect of God are told to watch for the return of Christ as He comes like a thief and we are to keep our garments clean and not found in shame

Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation through the persecution of the revived Roman Empire and Christ is about to return for His Bride

Rev 19:7,8 We being the Bride of Christ have now made ourselves ready for His coming as those who are still alive at this time and asleep in the grave have endured until the last day when Christ returns and destroys the beast and false prophet and sends His angels out to gather the Bride up to meet Jesus in the air.

Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until the end being the last day when Christ returns.

Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth

 

[Edward]

Below I have explained with scripture that the True Church of Christ (body of Christ) alive at His coming or a sleep in the grave will be caught up to Christ on the last day when Christ returns.

Does He do the rapture first or after He destroys the enemy and goes to the mount of olives?

You can't really post a long list of scriptures without context and think that it makes your case for you. And you continue to ignore much of my posts and questions to you. That's not a discussion at all. That's just throwing scriptures at me.

You want me to post every rapture scripture I have from the bible both old and new testaments? Because they are all over the OT. Even JLB posted from Zechariah, he knows. I could do that, but you prolly even wouldn't even go through them. You refused to watch a video I posted about it, so what makes me think you would do a bible study as directed by me. (LOL). You give no real answers.

and you're consistent about it. It's hard to talk to a book. I thought humans were talking using a book for a reference but still talking. What with you, Sister?

I asked you some questions, I gave you scriptures.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
Revelation 3:10

We are not appointed unto wrath. But you say we are. So who is those verses talking about?

 

[Oseas]

Yes, the coming of the Lord is after the tribulation.

I have just write about that prophetic message in https://forums.carm.org/threads/the-next-prophesied-event.10206/page-3

GOD bless