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The reason you cant lose your salvation is?.....

1Cor 15:2~~by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

Paul states the fact that they are saved. Then He goes into a debaters technique. To assume a falsehood is true to prove it false.

Not a single person who has ever believed on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation has believed in Vain.

The Corinthians were about as nasty a group of believers as we can imagine. If we were able to be present with them and watch their "fruits" not a one of us would guess that they were saved. They were lying,cheating,stealing,going to brothels,having relations with family members, eating food sacrificed to idols(at the brothels!) and much more. But what does Paul call these believers?

1 Cor 1:2~~To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

Sanctified~~"receiving set-apartedness/sanctification
with the result that they are sanctified forever"
[hagiazo - perfect passive participle]
 
WIP said:
Just a question to help me clarify. What if after being disciplined, I still refused to repent from said sin?
Click to expand...
Short answer is more discipline occurs

Medium length answer:
Discipline Level toward God's sons (saved people) Increases over time (Level 1-4) up to AND including death (Level 5). See 1 Cor 11:17-32

Longer answer with Biblical support:
Let’s take a Pauline example as laid out in 1 Cor 11:

Initial Discipline Level = Level 0

DO WHILE son is still alive [1 Cor 11:17]
the son sins [1 Cor 11:20-21, 27 Improper Conduct of the Lord’s Supper]
The Holy Spirit convicts the son of sin [1 Cor 11:28-29]​
IF the son repents THEN celebration occurs ELSE Discipline Level Applied = Discipline Level + 1 [1 Cor 11:31-32]
END DO [the son dies]
God’s GWTJ; IF you were ever known as a son you’re ‘saved’ ELSE you’re not saved [Matt 7:23]​
END

Biblical notes:
Discipline Level = Level 0 (no guilt), [Rom 3:24]
Level 1 (Guilty feeling), [1 Cor 11:21’s hangover]
Level 2 (Moderate Guilty feeling), [1 Cor 11:29, “guilty concience”]
Level 3 (Severe Guilty feeling, [1 Cor 11:30’s “weak”]
Level 4(sickness), [1 Cor 11:30’s “sick”]
Level 5 (death) [1 Cor 11:30’s “dead”]

OSAS notes:
31 But if we were evaluating ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But if we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined, in order that we will not be condemned with the world.
​
Non-OSAS person speaking erroneously about OSAS Notes:
Jethro Bodine said:
Your doctrine misuses grace and turns it into a license to sin.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Thank you for your response, chessman but I think you're a little over my head here. I'll have to study your response more before I think I will begin to grasp the meaning of what you are telling me.
 
WIP said:
Thank you for your response, chessman but I think you're a little over my head here. I'll have to study your response more before I think I will begin to grasp the meaning of what you are telling me.
Click to expand...
Wow WIP, this is the first time I've seen your picture. Nice face, but for some reason I pictured you as older.
 
WIP said:
Just a question to help me clarify. What if after being disciplined, I still refused to repent from said sin? Is this where I would respond that it would not be possible for me not to repent unless I was not saved in the first place?
Click to expand...
Hi WIP,

When an unbeliever repents of unbelief and by faith turns towards God for salvation in Christ, that unbeliever is born again, and has a new life that is everlasting. My thoughts are, which I believe is in line with Scripture, is that the Lord would not allow a Christian to degrade to the point of unbelief [so as to have a need to repent again of unbelief].
 
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Ephesians 5:5

How about this then?
 
chessman said:
Short answer is more discipline occurs

Medium length answer:
Discipline Level toward God's sons (saved people) Increases over time (Level 1-4) up to AND including death (Level 5). See 1 Cor 11:17-32

Longer answer with Biblical support:
Let’s take a Pauline example as laid out in 1 Cor 11:

Initial Discipline Level = Level 0

DO WHILE son is still alive [1 Cor 11:17]
the son sins [1 Cor 11:20-21, 27 Improper Conduct of the Lord’s Supper]
The Holy Spirit convicts the son of sin [1 Cor 11:28-29]​
IF the son repents THEN celebration occurs ELSE Discipline Level Applied = Discipline Level + 1 [1 Cor 11:31-32]
END DO [the son dies]
God’s GWTJ; IF you were ever known as a son you’re ‘saved’ ELSE you’re not saved [Matt 7:23]​
END

Biblical notes:
Discipline Level = Level 0 (no guilt), [Rom 3:24]
Level 1 (Guilty feeling), [1 Cor 11:21’s hangover]
Level 2 (Moderate Guilty feeling), [1 Cor 11:29, “guilty concience”]
Level 3 (Severe Guilty feeling, [1 Cor 11:30’s “weak”]
Level 4(sickness), [1 Cor 11:30’s “sick”]
Level 5 (death) [1 Cor 11:30’s “dead”]

OSAS notes:
31 But if we were evaluating ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But if we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined, in order that we will not be condemned with the world.
​
Non-OSAS person speaking erroneously about OSAS Notes:
Click to expand...

Biblical notes:
Discipline Level = Level 0 (no guilt), [Rom 3:24]
Level 1 (Guilty feeling), [1 Cor 11:21’s hangover]
Level 2 (Moderate Guilty feeling), [1 Cor 11:29, “guilty concience”]
Level 3 (Severe Guilty feeling, [1 Cor 11:30’s “weak”]
Level 4(sickness), [1 Cor 11:30’s “sick”]
Level 5 (death) [1 Cor 11:30’s “dead”]
Click to expand...

Chessman I like this description of conviction and discipline for Christians and compare it with how Yahweh handled the Israelite who sinned.

Exo 4:21-23 YLT And Jehovah saith unto Moses, `In thy going to turn back to Egypt, see--all the wonders which I have put in thy hand--that thou hast done them before Pharaoh, and I--I strengthen his heart, and he doth not send the people away; (22) and thou hast said unto Pharaoh, Thus said Jehovah, My son, My first-born is Israel, (23) and I say unto thee, Send away My son, and he doth serve Me; and--thou dost refuse to send him away--lo, I am slaying thy son, thy first-born.'


0 guilt = Passover Exodus 12:7- 13
Level 1 = Pre-emptive mercy Exodus 13:17,18 ( verbal discipline )
Level 2 = Doubt and reassurance Exodus 14: 11-14 ( verbal discipline )
Level 3 = More mercy Exodus 16:3,4 ( verbal discipline )
Level 4 = More mercy Exodus 16:27,28 ( verbal discipline )
Level 5 = More mercy Exodus 17 :3-6 ( verbal discipline )
Level 6 = Sickness and death ( Exodus 32:34,35 Numbers 32:11-13 )
 
jonahmano said:
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Ephesians 5:5

How about this then?
Click to expand...

I believe it means we
know for certain, that every sexually immoral person, or unclean person, or greedy person who is an idolater, does not have an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
​
Good thing we also know for certain we
were formerly darkness, but now are light in the Lord.
trying to learn what is well-pleasing to the Lord. ​
Good thing He's or teacher too.
 
chessman said:
I believe it means we
know for certain, that every sexually immoral person, or unclean person, or greedy person who is an idolater, does not have an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
​
Good thing we also know for certain we
were formerly darkness, but now are light in the Lord.
trying to learn what is well-pleasing to the Lord. ​
Good thing He's or teacher too.
Click to expand...

Isn't Paul talking to church of Ephesus (Christians). So that it means that sexually immoral Christian can't inherit the kingdom of God????
 
agua. said:
conviction and discipline for Christians and compare it with how Yahweh handled the Israelite who sinned.
Click to expand...

Umm yea. Paul just get's through with essentially the same comparison:

1 Corinthians 10:1-6, 11-13 For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all went through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ. But God was not pleased with the majority of them, for they were struck down in the desert.
​
Why all the trouble?

Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we should not be desirers of evil things, just as those also desired them, Now these things happened to those people as an example, but are written for our instruction, on whom the ends of the ages have come.
​
And how does this relate to the antiOSAS doctrine?

Therefore, the one who thinks that he stands must watch out lest he fall. Temptation has not come upon you except what is common to humanity. But God is faithful, who will not permit you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but will also make a way out together with the temptation, so that you may be able to endure it. ​
 
Hmm....Somehow the church at Ephesus were ALL saved people?
Every one of those churches had unsaved people in them and they had others speaking false doctrine, such as the Gnostics.
 
Deborah13 said:
Hmm....Somehow the church at Ephesus were ALL saved people?
Every one of those churches had unsaved people in them and they had others speaking false doctrine, such as the Gnostics.
Click to expand...

How do you say that many were unsaved. At some point of time the so called unsaved joined the group by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ else why would have they been in the group of believers?
 
Deborah13 said:
Hmm....Somehow the church at Ephesus were ALL saved people?
Every one of those churches had unsaved people in them and they had others speaking false doctrine, such as the Gnostics.
Click to expand...

Sorta like not all Israelites were of Israel ( ie. a true Jew ) eh.
 
jonahmano said:
So you mean that an new-born Christian has chances of losing his salvation and the adult matured Christian hasn't?
Click to expand...
A new-born Christian has about as much chance at losing his salvation as the chances that his Father dumps him on a stranger's doorstep.
 
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