The religion of peace.... Islam?

[Gary]

WIFE BEATING IN ISLAM
by Silas

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/wife-beating.htm

This website is created By ( JEWS )

not muslims and it's blocked i cant open it in my country .

They blocked it coz its a jewish site to make muslims look bad

Frost-X
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 29
Location: USA

Oh.... So are all these people Jews?

Individual Contributing Authors on Answering Islam

M. N. Anderson
James Arlandson
Rev. Richard P. Bailey
Andy Bannister
Dr. William Campbell
Roland Clarke
John Gilchrist
Samuel Green
Dr. Ernest Hahn
Farooq Ibrahim
Dawud Jabal
Khaled
Memsuah Mansoor
Abu Miriam
Gerhard Nehls
Alano Perez
Dallas Roark
Brahim Sene
Sam Shamoun
Silas
Wail Taghlibi
Anthony Wales
Walid
Wildcat

Answering Islam Library of Classical Books

Al-Kalbi
Al-Kindi
James Levi Barton
Richard Bell
Leone Caetani
Jens Christensen
W. H. T. Gairdner
Abraham Geiger
H.A.R. Gibb
William Goldsack
Thomas Patrick Hughes
C. Snouck Hurgronje
Arthur Jeffery
Duncan B. Macdonald
David S. Margoliouth
Alphonse Mingana
Sir William Muir
Theodor Nöldeke
Carl Gottlieb Pfander
Joseph Schacht
Philip Schaff
[Canon] Edward Sell
John Subhan
William St. Clair-Tisdall
Charles Cutler Torrey
G. Weil
E. M. Wherry
Arthur N. Wollaston
Samuel Zwemer

Not too many Jews there.....

:

 

[Guest]

Frame

All i know is that this site is 100% Framing muslims.



Our proxy is Proxy1.emirates.net.ae port: 8080


It's blocked!!! why!!! Coz it's not a real islamic site.


it's all framing

 

[hopefearmercy]

ignorance is prevalent



Hello,

I must say that ignorance of Islam seems very unbecoming. Try focusing on the people who are doing this and not the religion. For in Islam, it says to do otherwise.

Timothy McVeigh was a beautiful Christian was he not? Hitler? ARE you blaming the religion....NO.... an normal person would blame the person....look at all the atrocities that are happening in the world today ....IN AMERIC....crimes...killings...rapes, incests, porn, burglery, stealin...etc.....do we blame it on the religion they have or the person?????????????????????????????? And in doing that, it is only natural and just.

Ignorance amonst Muslims is rampant as well, for many Muslims do not know their own religion and take it upon themselves to do what they please and in doing that, God will hold them responsible. Everyone is held accountable for his/her own actions...

Islam is a beautiful religion....it is people who make it disgusting....and those who have no clue as to what it entails and base their beliefs and their own opinions into the matter....is really sad to know that people are given God given intelligence but yet can't and do not know how to put it to good use.

may God show everyone the truth ameen

hopefearmercy

 

[AHIMSA]

hopefearmercy,

I can understand your frustration on this website, I have often found that people have been unfair and cruel when it comes to a discussion of Islam. It is, as you pointed out, neccessary to make a distinction between followers of a religion, and the principles of that religion itself.

Please forgive me for making this assumption, but I am going to assume that you take the Qu'ran to be the revealled and perfect word of God, without any mixture of error.

I was wondering then, if you consider the complications that arise with looking at the Qu'ran as such when we read such passages as this:

"Men have authority over women because God has made one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them, forsake them in beds apart and beat them"

Surah 4:34

or

"Women are your fields: go then, into your fields whence you please" Surah 2:225-26

I am using the Penguin Classics translation, by N.J Dawood first published in 1956, republished numerous times, the most recent being 2003

I do not wish to demonize the Qu'ran or declare it the work of the devil or any other such nonsense. However, if Islam is claimed to be the "truth" to the exclusion of all other faiths, than one must consider these flaws and the implications these verses might have on believers who accept it as God's perfect word.

 

[Gary]

I used to be a Christian...

What denomination?

 

[hopefearmercy]

by no means do i take offense


Hello,


By no means do I take offense at sincer questions that are put forth. I will be giving you the correct meaning of these verses and NOT FROM MY OWN OPINION.

From respected scholars of Islam, the one I will post is from Ibn Kathir's...

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are Qanitat, and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard. As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them, and abandon them in their beds, and beat them, but if they return to obedience, do not seek a means against them. Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.

First of all, Men are protectors and maintainers of women. ...meaning that man is responsible for the woman, and he is her maintainer, caretaker and leader who disciplines her if she deviates....(let me add that also in Islam, the women do not have to work or share their expenses for this is purely the responsibility of the husband, but if she is willing she can).

Second, ..because Allah has made one of them to excel the other...meaning because men excel over women and are better for certain tasks. This is why prophethood was exclusive of men, as well as other important positions of leadership. The prophet pbuh said, People who appoint a woman to be their leader, will never achieve success. (Bukhari)...(imagine a pregnant women or one who is PMS-ing and trying to lead a country and her being all hormonal...up and down moods...imagine her goin to war lol.. etc....it is now proven that in science that women have totally different brains amd how they think with them...meaning they are lacking in strength compositions.)...and I am a woman ...we should not take offense at things that are beyond our capacity and control.

Thirdly, and because they spend from their means...meaning the dowry, expenditures and various expenses that Allah has ORDAINED in His Book and the Sunna of His Messenger pbuh for men to spend on women. For these reasons it is suitable that he is appointed her maintainer, just as Allah said,..But men have a degree (of responsibility) over them....(I might add, that it does not mean that men are smarter etc...)
Qualities of the Righteous Wife:
Allah said, therefore, the righteous women...in arabi..qanitat...meaning obedient to their husbands as a companion of the prophet pbuh, Ibn Abbas said, and guard in the husband's absence. and what Allah orders them to guard...means the protected(husband) is the one whom Allah protects...Ibn Jafar recorded that Hurairah said that the prophet pbuh said, "The Best women is she who when you look at her, she pleases you, when you command her she obeys you, and when you are absent, she protects her honor and your property."...then he recited "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women."

In Islam, Mohammad pbuh said that if the woman prayed her five daily prayers, fasted her month, protected her chasity and obeyed her husband, she will be told "Enter Paradise from any of its doors you wish." Ahmad.

Fourthly,...As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them (first)..abandon them in their beds,...Abbas referred to this "abandonment" as to not having intercourse with her, to lie on her bed with his back to her....and also not to speak with her....The prophet pbuh said, "To feed her when you eat, clothe her when you buy clothes for yourself, refrain from striking her face or cursing her, and to not abandon her, except in her house.

Allah's statement..."then beat them"...means if advice and ignoring her in the bed do not produce the desired results, you are allowed to discipline the wife without severe beating....the beating should NOT LEAVE ANY MARKS...and should nothing should be used but an object no heavier than a feather or toothstick....Mohammad pbuh said, Fear Allah regarding Women, for they are your assistants. You have the right on them that they do not allow any person whom you dislike to step on your mat. Hoever, if they do that, you are allowed to discipline them lightly. They have no right on you that you provide them with their provision and clothes in a reasonable manner."

FIFTHLY,....BUT IF THEY RETURN TO OBEDIENCE seek not against them means of annoyance....meaning that when the wife obeys her husband in all that Allah has allowed, then no means of annoyance from the husband are allowed against his wife. Therefore, the husband has NO right to beat her or shun her bed.



In the Bible, women are humiliated...if you look in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. Also in Mark 10 11-12 if you divorce and marry another it is considered adultry...In 1 Corinthians 11 3-6...it states THAT THE HEAD OF EVERY WOMAN IS THE MAN....and is disrespecting if they do not cover their hair...


"To the woman He gave nine curses and death: the burden of the blood of menstruation and the blood of virginity; the burden of pregnancy; the burden of childbirth; the burden of bringing up the children; her head is covered as one in mourning; she pierces her ear like a permanent slave or slave girl who serves her master; she is not to be believed as a witness; and after everything--death....To sum up, the Judaeo-Christian conception of women has been poisoned by the belief in the sinful nature of Eve and her female offspring. that's why they are there....In Islam, women are highly respected and the best of those are those who are good to their wives....women are covered and protected not put on display and expoited as you see in almost every advertisement etc......

I will end with this...women are indeed different than men whether they like it or not. Men are different than women and that is what makes them a prouder more substantiated self to help protect and maintain the women. Strength, courage, knowledge, go along right side it....Women need to realize this and stop competing with men for science even states it is impossible. Knowledge however depends on how much you put into it, for there were many women scholars of Islam.


I hope this answers your question ..have any more?

hopefearmercy

 

[hopefearmercy]

hello Gary...I was a...


I was raised a First Baptist...In Daytona Beach, Florida until...

hopefearmercy

 

[Gary]

Allah's statement..."then beat them"...means if advice and ignoring her in the bed do not produce the desired results, you are allowed to discipline the wife without severe beating....the beating should NOT LEAVE ANY MARKS...and should nothing should be used but an object no heavier than a feather or toothstick....

What utter rubbish! Where does it say "should NOT LEAVE ANY MARKS...and should nothing should be used but an object no heavier than a feather or toothstick" in the surah/verse?

It says:

RODWELL [1]: "Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great!"

DAWOOD [2]: "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme."

PICKTHALL [3]: "Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded. As for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great."

ARBERRY [4]: "Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All high, All great."

SHAKIR [5]: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

ALI [6]: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whom part you fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance) for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).

I placed Ali's version last because I have an important comment to make on his translation. Ali knew he was writing for a Western audience and that wife beating is viewed as brutal in the West. Consequently, Ali inserted many of his own words into the Quran’s text in order to make it less harsh. This was deceptive on Ali's part. Ali inserted his comments at 9 different places in the 4:34 text. I've done a quick review through Ali's Quran, and have not found any other verse with that many insertions. Clearly something was troubling him to cause him to add so much. Notice not one other translation has anything remotely near "lightly" when talking about the physical beating a man is supposed to give his wife. Ali was in part a Muslim apologist and his work here was meant to hide and soften the Quran’s real meaning.

I note that Muslim apologists like Ali frequently say that the beating should be 'light'. But in the context of the Quran it has to be severe enough to bring her into obedience. And it must produce a stronger psychological effect that verbal chastisement and sexual desertion produce.

Source: http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/wife-beating.htm

:o

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P.S. Do you know Bobby Welch?

 

[hopefearmercy]

hello Gary


Yes he was my pastor and he knows my family well.(Bobby Welch)

As for explaining the Quran, as I said before in another post, you cannot simply take upon explaining the Quran in your own way. You must be a learned person in religion and in ARABIC. It is forbidden for us to use our own explaining of the ayaat(the verses) for that is where the people from before have errored.

There are explanations of scholars who KNOW MORE than the ordinary laymen. Admit it....even in Christian Theology, is the same regarding the religion...well the vatican is kept secret....sooooo who knows what is kept behind closed doors eh?

As for the verse I gave you the explanation from a highly respected Scholar of Islam who has majored in this field....all you did was quote for me TRANSLATIONS of different authors...remember that God is the author of the Quran and not authors of translations.

And I have read some of my posts from my son and he is a lil strong, my apologies, but that site answering islam is not authenticated by Islamic Scholars, therefore UNTRUSTWORTHY.


hopefearmercy

 

[Gary]

Wife beating.... by Islamic scholars

IBN KATHIR

Ibn Kathir is one of the distinguished Islamic scholars. His commentary (tafseer) is a favorite of Sunni Muslims. Excerpts from his commentary on Islamic wife beating – 4:34 follow:

• “Refuse to share their beds.†Ibn Abbas said: “A man should advise her if she accepts. Otherwise, he should refuse to share their bed.†Quoting Ibn Abbas, “Sharing the bed means: a man should not have sexual intercourse with his wife, and should turn his back on her in bed. Quoting Muawiyyah Ibn Hida al-Qushairi, it is narrated in the books of Sunan (Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, etc…) and Musnad: “O Allah Messenger! What is a man’s duty towards his wife?†The Prophet replied: “Feed her when you feed yourself, buy her clothes when you buy yourself clothes, do not hit her in the face, do not scold and do not desert her except in the house.â€Ââ€Â
  
  “And beat them.†If they do not abstain from their disobedience through both advice and desertion. However, the beating should be dharbun ghayru nubrah, i.e. light, according to the Hadith narrated in Sahih Muslim, on the authority of Jabir, who had quoted the Prophet as saying in his farewell pilgrimage: “And fear Allah in women, for they are your aides, and their duties towards you is that your beds should not be shared with someone you dislike. Therefore, if they disobey you, beat them lightly, and your duty towards them is that you should maintain and buy them clothes in a reasonable manner.â€Â
  
  Scholars said: dharbun ghayru nubrah means: The husband should beat his wife lightly, in a way which does not result in breaking one of her limbs or affecting her badly.
  
  “But if they obey, seek not against them means (of annoyance).†If a woman obeys her husband in all what he wants from her, as long as within the boundaries of what is lawful, he should not beat nor desert her.â€Â

Define "beating"...... IT DOES NOT BREAK BONES!!!

How sick!

AL-NAWAWI

Nawawi is one of the great Islamic jurisprudence scholars. He was a 13th century Shafi’i scholar. His work was used by Ahmad Naqib in writing “Reliance of the Travellerâ€Â. This book is a “Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Lawâ€Â. From the section m10.12, “Dealing with a Rebellious Wifeâ€Â, page 540:

• If she commits rebelliousness, he keeps from sleeping (and having sex) with her without words, and may hit her, but not in a way that injures her, meaning he may not (bruise her), break bones, wound her, or cause blood to flow. (It is unlawful to strike another’s face.) He may hit her whether she is rebellious only once or whether more than once, though a weaker opinion holds that he may hot hit her unless there is repeated rebelliousness.â€Â
  
  If the wife does not fulfill one of the above-mentioned obligations, she is termed “rebellious†(nashiz), and the husband takes the following steps to correct matters:
  
  (a) admonition and advice, by explaining the unlawfulness of rebellion, its harmful effect on married life, and by listening to her viewpoint on the matter;
  
  (b) if admonition is ineffectual, he keeps from her by not sleeping in bed with her, by which both learn the degree to which they need each other;
  
  (c) if keeping from her is ineffectual, it is permissible for him to hit her if he believes that hitting her will bring her back to the right path, though if he does not think so, it is not permissible. His hitting her may not be in a way that injures her, and is his last recourse to save the family.
  
  (d) if the disagreement does not end after all this, each partner chooses an arbitrator to solve the dispute by settlement, or divorce.

I want to again note here that Muslim apologists always say that the beating should be 'light'. But, in the context, it has to be severe enough to bring her into obedience. And it must produce a stronger psychological effect that verbal chastisement and sexual desertion produce. In other words - it's got to hurt.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/wife-beating.htm

:o

 

[hopefearmercy]

hmmm gary an islamic scholar???


When you explain bit by bit and take in what you please and what you don't please, you are bound to find what you think is good and bad. In Islam, we are to take what Allah swt has said and what He has sent to Mohammad pbuh as the final message to mankind.

*edited due to flamming*

hopefearmercy

 

[Gary]

Re: hmmm How often do you beat your wife?

We have defined beating...meanin.......no injuries to the women....helloooooooooooo what more do you want??????...Allah swt is just and if some women are as hard minded and stubborn as you are they deserve the beatin LOOOOOOOL....(just jokin)
[/color]

Wow.... glad you are not my spouse! How often do you beat your wife?

I want to again note here that Muslim apologists always say that the beating should be 'light'. But, in the context, it has to be severe enough to bring her into obedience. And it must produce a stronger psychological effect that verbal chastisement and sexual desertion produce.

In other words - it's got to hurt!!

 

[Gary]

Here is a Hadith from Bukhari vol. 7, # 715:

"Narrated Ikrima: 'Rifaa divorced his wife whereupon Abdur-Rahman married her. Aisha said that the lady came wearing a green veil and complained to her (Aisha) and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating. It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's messenger came, Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes! When Abdur-Rahman heard that his wife had gone to the prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him, but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment. Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's messenger! She has told a lie. I am very strong and can satisfy her, but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifaa." Allah's messenger said to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifaa unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." The prophet saw two boys with Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that Abdur-Rahman said, "Yes." The prophet said, "You claim what you claim (that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow.""

Let's note several items from this Hadith.

1) A woman was beaten by her husband because of marriage discord.

2) The Muslim women were suffering more than the non-Muslim women (via Aisha's comment), note it is said in the plural. This tells you just how good Muslim women back then really had it. Things were so bad for them, that they had to "support" each other because they were being abused in one way or another.

3) The woman was badly bruised.

4) Muhammad did not re-prove the man for beating his wife. In fact, he reproached the woman for saying Rahman was impotent. Even though she was bruised, Muhammad accepted it and did not reprove Rahman. Clearly, this beating was acceptable to Muhammad.

:o :o

 

[YESHUA]

Re: You people just dont understand

I am sorry but you people are Blind and do not understand .


You keep and keep and keep and keep Blaming Islam For what a Muslim does ???

WHY BLAME ISLAM ??

Why not say christians are TERRORIST ? when BUSH killed iraqi WOMEN and CHILDREN ?

Can't muslims protect their country ??? if they protect that means they are tirrorists??????

Israel kills over 10 muslims a DAY ? why Arent jews Terrorists ?????

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHY BLAME THE RELIGION ?? why not blame the humans who did it ??

I am sorry to say but Any man can claim that he is muslim and do WRONG and many muslims DO NOT FOLLOW THE RIGHT PATH JUST LIKE CHRISTIAN DON"T FOLLOW THE ORDERS OF CHRISTIANITY

MANY DRINK and MANY HAVE Fornicated ( Have sex )

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have no right to BLAME the religion of islam !

Blame the people who did those crimes !!!!

THEY DO NOT PRACTICE THE TRUE ISLAM MOHAMMAD BROUGHT

I AM SORRY you people JUst have HATE IN UR HEARTS AGAINST ISLAM

For what i dont know

we do not insult but you do ! we do not mock but you Do

we respect but you dont !!

WHAY IS ALL THE WORLD AGAINST ISLAM ??? this is a question to us


SATAN is AGAISNT TRUTH and he will do what he can do demolish it

ALL the world is against islam ?? SATAN is AGAINST ISLAM COZ HE KNOWs its the TRUTH and that muslims go to paradise if allah wills

And SATAN doesnt want them to enter paradise

he wants them to go to hell with jews and christians and pagans


Open your eyes

millions of christians become muslim and not 1 muslim has become christian

Yes we keep blaming Islam for the things they do in the name of allah why shouldn't we? would you like us to just be quiet and accept the atrocities thats been done in the name of allah the moon god.
So not one muslim has become a Christian do you wanna bet? I know of such a muslim he was a very strong muslim from Iran and now my friend he is a very strong Christian I can tell him to write to you would you like that?
And why do you think the Christians are being killed by the thousands?
along side with the converts even in the west the converts are being killed or threaten? I know personal of such converts
And thats a fact go read the voice of the MARTYRS, where ever there is muslims there is war no denying that because its a proven fact and we the Christians with the Jews go to hell so why in the world are you killing them since they go to hell anyway? so that they can go to hell faster?
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA coming soon better get ready, and this time we shall se HIM face to face so that you will know HE is what He claim to be the SON of the LIVING GOD

 

[Guest]

????

??????

YESHUA ?

such ignorance you have in you about islam.


again i say i will wait untill my mom replies to you .


she'll give you the best reply and what you want to hear .



or should i say what you dont want to hear coz the Truth hurts sometimes

 

[DivineNames]

Re: ????

such ignorance you have in you about islam.

So your saying that you can't beat women in Islam, and we have another Muslim saying you can...

Someone is ignorant here...

 

[DivineNames]

Re: hello Gary

but that site answering islam is not authenticated by Islamic Scholars, therefore UNTRUSTWORTHY.

What a silly thing to say!


"Islamic scholars" are not going to "authenticate" a site that is critical of Islam!

 

[YESHUA]

Re: ????

??????

YESHUA ?

such ignorance you have in you about islam.


again i say i will wait untill my mom replies to you .


she'll give you the best reply and what you want to hear .



or should i say what you dont want to hear coz the Truth hurts sometimes

No my friend I am not ignorant of islam I know what my eyes ses and thats not pleasant at all, my neighborhood is crawling with muslims and thats not a pleasant sight believe me not at all.
and something else I had a conversation with a muslim lady from tanzania she is black and here is her complaint and she is a very strong islamic believer she is complaining about the racism against her because she is black and the arabs will not salute her on the obligatory salute salaam, something which all muslims is obligated to do if they are saluted but apparently not the arabs because the blacks are considered less muslims because the pure blood of muhammad is with the arabs since he was an arab and the pakistanis were even more racist than the arabs and something else why do you belive that all mankind were born muslims and then converted into other faith, even moshe and Yeshua and all the people in the Bible were born muslims how can this be when islam was not even founded before year 700 are you so ignorant and naive as to believe this?
And yes I know the truth hurts and so my friend Islam is hurting a lot after being told the truth by so many people
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA the only truth in this wicked world being raped by Islam but not for long my friend not for long because soon and very soon YESHUA will call HIS people home to paradise ALLELU-YAH

 

[hopefearmercy]

even muslims will be in hellfire



Is truely amazing that when Islam forbids racism, people just keep on blaming the religion INSTEAD OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE WRONG!!!!! Even Muslims will be in hellfire!

there is good and bad in everyone......but to honestly sit and blame the religion on faults of the people without knowing the what the religion is saying, is WRONG!....

What about the billions of muslims in the world??? all terrorists??? blowin up the world??? if that were the case, the world would not be standing.


Killing is wrong, oppression is wrong, hurting another is wrong...islam is not wrong.....those who go against Islam (muslims themselves I mean)....will have a huge and heavy price to pay!

so please everyone grow up and stop blaming what people are doing and learn.

hopefearmercy

 

[hopefearmercy]

hello yeshua

Yeshua,

calm down,

From one person who loves God to another, we all will be in front of Him one day.

What my son was trying to say was, that when a person is born he is automatically KNOWING there is a creator....INSTINCT....this is how God made mankind. Now when he said everyone is born muslims, what he meant by this was, that the meaning of Islam is submitting totally to God without intermediaries in between...means only to believe in one God without partners, sons, daughters, saints...etc....no need for all that since God is one....all the prophets taught this...monotheism...one god....Adam, Noah, Moses, David, Jesus and Mohammad....all taught the same message...ONE GOD....this is what Islam means and that is what he meant by saying that all are born muslims.....it is the parents that divert them away from the truth.

hope you understand thanks

hopefearmercy