the removal the church isnt supportable

[Grappler]

I know, uhm I have. if there is ac then what was the covenant that he made that he died for ?

so you say you have read the bible? yet you believe that the Jews will be jews when they believe in a messiah that comes to whom?

so the jews need be told the will come to save isreal or that they need jesus?

what would you tell my jewish unsaved family.

You said- I know, uhm I have. if there is ac then what was the covenant that he made that he died for ? I am not sure what you mean...please expound. Why are you talking about Jews? I never said anything about Jews. I would tell your unsaved Jewish family that they need to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

 

[jasoncran]

ok then why is their a need of a trib at all then if its not called Jacob's trouble? the whole point of the idea of the trib is that god turns from the church to isreal. why would he allow an impostor to deceive men so that the jews in a time of need him when the ac comes against them?
.
hint. jewry and our chialism is the exact same, nearly word for word. the jews call the messianic era and also believe satan to be bound per the sages.either they got it from us and wont admit that part on satan or that we took from them ere Christ came in some midrash statement. which I cant find.

its says when ye see the ac to flee to the mountains, whom and why would the shabat matter to gentiles?

see Daniel 9 where that comes from

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

ad 70 fits that real well. even the man rashi agrees.

 

[n2thelight]

please. sheesh go read what matthew henry said about this and tell me if the puritan church who taught and preached holiness and didn't make money on end times then talk was a false church. they gave a lot to the American church. hints where we get the idea of America is so important to god.
@Grappler .i went from pretrib to post trib then no trib. keep looking and you will find that its not able to stand the rigor. we don't know a lot.

I have no idea whatsoever you are talking about,but Paul said at the 7th trump which is the last,we shall ALL be changed............That change is from flesh to spirit,period!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jasoncran]

all? what is all when he comes and theres a need for that dead mil saint to be raised up. funny thing is that after the millennium theres no mention of any saints in the judgement.

what does the first resurrection mean? if theres a first whom was in and why is it said before the millennium?

 

[Eugene]

This thread is closed to clean sarcasm and personal remarks.

This thread is reopened. - Please keep it Christian.
Some posts were deleted simply due to a quoted post that was deleted.

 

[freeway]

Well let me jump in here if I may... Rapture or no Rapture.. first off let see what Jesus says about his second coming...

29
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days
the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will
fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will
appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will
see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great
glory. 31 And He will
send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together
His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the
other.

This will be a terrible day for the unbeliever no doubt. The main question here, to go along with this thread is the gathering of His elect... The elect is the believers in Christ. Next question is where are these believers being gathered from? Simple "Heaven". the word Heaven in the Greek "3772" is "ouranos" which means "sky", "The abode of God." or should I say, not earth. In Strong's concordance "earth is never used as "ouranos" but only Heaven is..
Next question for you post believers is, if all Christians are taken at the second coming then who repopulates the world in the 1000 yr reign of Christ? Who are the sheep and the goats if all the sheep have been taken... and why do you believe the last trumpet of revelation which is blown for judgment upon an unbelieving world, This trumpet is blown by an angel. Why do you believe it is the same trumpet as "the trumpet of God".. What about the trumpets of the Jewish festivals. There a trumpet is blown for Christ to gather His bride for the wedding feast.. I will stop here for now..

 

[freeway]

please. sheesh go read what matthew henry said about this and tell me if the puritan church who taught and preached holiness and didn't make money on end times then talk was a false church. they gave a lot to the American church. hints where we get the idea of America is so important to god.
@Grappler .i went from pretrib to post trib then no trib. keep looking and you will find that its not able to stand the rigor. we don't know a lot.

Jason as far as making money... Name a religion group that does not need money? to get their message out.. any??
Is America important to God? I though everyone was? After all wasn't America founded on Christian beliefs?
As for your conversion from pre to mid to post to none.. I've read all the debates you where engaged in with others on this board and frankly I don't see how their arguments stand up... But thats just me.. as my footnote says....

 

[freeway]

Agape...

It seems as if some wont read the scriptures even if you post them?

 

[JLB]

Well let me jump in here if I may... Rapture or no Rapture.. first off let see what Jesus says about his second coming...

This will be a terrible day for the unbeliever no doubt. The main question here, to go along with this thread is the gathering of His elect... The elect is the believers in Christ. Next question is where are these believers being gathered from? Simple "Heaven". the word Heaven in the Greek "3772" is "ouranos" which means "sky", "The abode of God." or should I say, not earth. In Strong's concordance "earth is never used as "ouranos" but only Heaven is..
Next question for you post believers is, if all Christians are taken at the second coming then who repopulates the world in the 1000 yr reign of Christ? Who are
the sheep and the goats if all the sheep have been taken... and why do you believe the last trumpet of revelation which is blown for judgment upon an unbelieving world, This trumpet is blown by an angel. Why do you believe it is the same trumpet as "the trumpet of God".. What about the trumpets of the Jewish festivals. There a trumpet is blown for Christ to gather His bride for the wedding feast.. I will stop here for now..

. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:27

Key phrase: after the Tribulation. Couldn't be more clear.

JLB

 

[jasoncran]

Jason as far as making money... Name a religion group that does not need money? to get their message out.. any??
Is America important to God? I though everyone was? After all wasn't America founded on Christian beliefs?
As for your conversion from pre to mid to post to none.. I've read all the debates you where engaged in with others on this board and frankly I don't see how their arguments stand up... But thats just me.. as my footnote says....

actually its on the idea of a separated neutral government with the idea of allowing the debate of Christ verse all faiths and the truth stand. the government secured the peace while the church should lead souls to Christ.


im talking about hal Lindsey, van impe. they make prophecy and when it fails then what? did the apostles sell books or did they go to teach? I know it costs that fines but what they do is downright usery. I hear it here and in my church then when America fails to be the light the rapture may or will happen.Do you remember 88 reasons why Christ will return in 88? I do and whom wrote it and who is still selling books?

 

[jasoncran]

I have no idea whatsoever you are talking about,but Paul said at the 7th trump which is the last,we shall ALL be changed............That change is from flesh to spirit,period!!!!!!!!!!

ok then what happens to the sinners that enter the millennium? whom gave birth to them?

 

[freeway]

ok then what happens to the sinners that enter the millennium? whom gave birth to them?

exactly, if we are all changed at the end of the trib, then who are the ones entering into the mill. So the rapture can not be at the end of the tribulation. Who are the sheep and goats. and who is Jesus talking to? about helping out His elect?

 

[Eugene]

ok then why is their a need of a trib at all then if its not called Jacob's trouble? the whole point of the idea of the trib is that god turns from the church to isreal. why would he allow an impostor to deceive men so that the jews in a time of need him when the ac comes against them?

Many are caught up in "Replacement" theology and think they are Jews.

 

[jasoncran]

uhm that is also a problem for you. those trib saints will be of what covenant? the mosaic one or the one of the cross?and how will these know of the trib if they aren't in the word?i know many in my church that cant handle a debate with a jw.i can but I would use wisdom with that. I believe in the idea of the basic soldiering skills for the Christian. ie know the bible truths and at least hit up the idea of born again, sin and also hell and heaven and the trinity.

 

[jasoncran]

uhm.let me ask you this.would you tell or talk to a jewish convert to Christ that is new in Christ about the law and and ask them to do shabat and be kosher?im there and I will no longer talk to my dad about the temple and the sages and the tanach.i have done jewish rites for my family. I have plans to do all the feasts that I can do.my aunt also a jew is in church learning from the gentiles. I will not send her a card on yom kippur nor rosh hoshanna. that may cause her to back slide.currently I can name at least five jews that are saved.

myself, my brother, my great uncle, my niece,a jewish friend in church. so God isn't saving jews now?

 

[Eugene]

ok then what happens to the sinners that enter the millennium? whom gave birth to them?

Most entering the millennium will be the nations. Most believers during the tribulation will be killed and be in heaven. Even that time of Jacob's trouble will be shortened so that all flesh would not be lost. Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. This is a physical salvation from death, and that includes Israel and the nations.

Isaiah 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. These children are being born right along.

Those of Gog and Magog that come to compass the camp of the saints certainly haven't changed their stripes and will be turned into crispy critters. Revelation 20:9.

My thoughts.

 

[jasoncran]

ok then you must deal with the idea of the law being in effect then and that jesus statement on men not worshipping men on this mountain or that.you also fail to get the idea of the wheats and tares. if the tares are taken the wheats must also be gathered. theres no room for sinners.'

why does peter also then mention a new heaven and new earth wherein the promise of righteousness?

in context with that

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

that implies that those in this wont remember the old days. any survivor of the trib would.

 

[Eugene]

1 Corinthians 15:26 "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death", and then will the following come to pass.

1 Corinthians 15:52-55 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Death is not swallowed up at the end of the tribulation, but at the end of the millennium.

 

[jasoncran]

that would contradict then the idea of the saints then being risen when he comes back.

did you know the first chialism was before the resurrection? jesus said on the last day there would be resurrection. when is the last day?

 

[Eugene]

that would contradict then the idea of the saints then being risen when he comes back.

did you know the first chialism was before the resurrection? jesus said on the last day there would be resurrection. when is the last day?

Maybe so, but the last day is the last day, to me associated with the last trump. O death, where is thy sting? I guarantee there is sting left when you observe funerals today, and there is death prevalent during the millennium; the death of a child at an hundred years of age, and yet the last enemy destroyed is death, and that is the time those remaining in the grave will be resurrected, mortality will put on immorality; many are already in heaven at that time.

That to me begs the answer: if there is a last trump, will there be previous trumps. In other words are all seen in heaven at the same time by John?