The Removing Of 1 Of The 10 Commandments

[mutzrein]

First the catholics have to get rid of their statues of people and have a humble leader instead of one who exalts himself to Our Holy Father. "He who wants to be first will be last and the last will be first." But at least the protestants know that Christ was the only sinless one whoever lived and his image on the cross is the only one we worship.

So you worship an image of Christ on the cross? Is that what you are saying?

Christ wasn't a mortal man, in case you've forgotten. He is our Lord, not Peter, Paul or Mary.

Jesus tells us in scripture that we should worship the Father, no-one else.

But he also makes it clear that he is the way to the Father. So you cannot come to the Father except through Christ. "No one can come to the Father except by me."

And what does coming to the Father through Christ have to do with worshipping an image of Jesus on a cross?

 

[TruthMiner]

I don't worship an image. I worship my Lord. But the image is a reminder of who it is we worship. So what is a statue of mary a reminder of? :o

Maybe you would like to retract this statement then?

Heidi: But at least the protestants know that Christ was the only sinless one whoever lived and his image on the cross is the only one we worship.

 

[Heidi]

I don't worship an image. I worship my Lord. But the image is a reminder of who it is we worship. So what is a statue of mary a reminder of? :o

Maybe you would like to retract this statement then?

Heidi: But at least the protestants know that Christ was the only sinless one whoever lived and his image on the cross is the only one we worship.

I don't worship just an image. The image is a reminder of who it is I worship. So it does not replace my faith in Christ.

 

[TruthMiner]

I don't worship an image. I worship my Lord. But the image is a reminder of who it is we worship. So what is a statue of mary a reminder of? :o

Maybe you would like to retract this statement then?

Heidi: But at least the protestants know that Christ was the only sinless one whoever lived and his image on the cross is the only one we worship.

I don't worship just an image. The image is a reminder of who it is I worship. So it does not replace my faith in Christ.

Then whey did you say you worship an image?

Heidi: "But at least the protestants know that Christ was the only sinless one whoever lived and his image on the cross is the only one we worship."

 

[SputnikBoy]

The Bible does not truly list or ever use the phrase "ten commandments".

Actually the Bible DOES use the phrase, the Ten Commandments. Read Exodus 34:28. Also Deuteronomy 4:13; 10:4. There could be more but these ones make the point.

 

[Heidi]

I don't worship an image. I worship my Lord. But the image is a reminder of who it is we worship. So what is a statue of mary a reminder of? :o

Maybe you would like to retract this statement then?

Heidi: But at least the protestants know that Christ was the only sinless one whoever lived and his image on the cross is the only one we worship.

I don't worship just an image. The image is a reminder of who it is I worship. So it does not replace my faith in Christ.

Then whey did you say you worship an image?

Heidi: "But at least the protestants know that Christ was the only sinless one whoever lived and his image on the cross is the only one we worship."

My point was a comparison to images of Christ and images of Mary so you did not understand the meaning of my post. If you were as focused on thre words in the bible as you are on my words, then your faith would increase a hundredfold! I have already explained what I meant. If you choose to distort it, then again, you're free to do so. I therefore, have no further interest in such nitpicking.

 

[thessalonian]

The Bible does not truly list or ever use the phrase "ten commandments".

Actually the Bible DOES use the phrase, the Ten Commandments. Read Exodus 34:28. Also Deuteronomy 4:13; 10:4. There could be more but these ones make the point.

Thank you for the correction. You are quite correct. Now if you can show me where it actually shows how the ten are parsed out that would be great. Till then I will stand by what I said that the actual parsing of the commandments is a tradition. The Bible does not tell us what the 10 should be.

 

[thessalonian]

No, actually I did answer it. It is you who glided over it. According to your reasoning, then God was wrong about asking his people to make an ark and right about not erecting false images.

Where did I say God was wrong about asking people to make an ark? You distort. Neither was he wrong about asking them to put two Cheribs on this mercy seat. You keep ignoring that fact.

Sorry, since God is never wrong, then there is clearly a difference between the ark and statues of people.

There is, but not between statues of angels. I did make that point and you ignore it. Further I have proven that bowing down is not always worship. You will not address the many times that people are bowed down to in the Old Testatment. Further do you admit your error, that People did in fact bow down before the ark. You said they didn't. Now you try to take another step back and say the Ark wasn't a person. No kidding. Just admit you were wrong and then deal with cheribs and bowing down. Your tactics aren't fooling anyone I would hope.

Once again, God gets the credit for the good that people do and that is why he tells us not to erect statues of people. So why do you disagree with God here? :o

Nope, that is not in fact why. Let's take moses as an example:

Hewbrews7
16. For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses?

Who led the people out of Egypt? I thought it was God? If any part of it was Moses then God did not do it all. Nope, God did it all. But that does not make it wrong to say Moses led the people because he did. Here Paul is doing it long after Moses is dead and gone. According to you he is wrong. He should say "who came out of Egypte led by God?" so that God gets ALL the GLORY. But quite apparently with this one simple example your thinking isn't the thinking of God. No it is quite right to recognize what God has done through certain men and it is not given God only a part of the Glory when we acknowledge the part of the man in it. That is not the reason for the prohibition against images. The prohibition against images is so that they will not set them up as God's for themselves. So that they will not have other God's. That is why the command against images needs to go with the first commandment. But you will refuse to see.

 

[Imagican]

After all the posts that have been offered concerning the worship of 'statues', it becomes obvious that those that choose to do so don't even want to admit it. Most offer that they 'don't' worship the statue, 'but what it stands for?'. The few that do admit it, try to make it sound like it's OK. That God didn't really mean what He said, or, that the worship of 'some' statues is OK.

Since NO ONE knows what Christ looked like, I propose that the statues representing Him are not even accurate representations. This being the case, then the statues that they choose to bow down to aren't even of Christ, but simply wooden images carved by the hands of men. And that, simply of another man. A 'false god', rather than following the Word by worshiping NO graven image.

Once again we find the Catholic Church choosing to do things 'their way' rather than following the Word of God. Man-made tradition being taught to be of as great importance as the Word. And the only purpose that I can think of for this to take place is to have control over the congregation. To have the followers of this religion worship the leaders of it as God. Thereby taking control of not only the wealth of those that believe such, but their lives as well.

There was one in the beginning of man that had a similar goal. Being 'not satisfied' with his place in the realm of God, so that he decided that he too would be worshiped. And through this worship he would command control of their lives. Anyone know 'who' this was?

 

[Lewis]

According to scripture - not me - Mary is presently in the grave awaiting resurrection. So ...whether 'worshipping' or 'showing respect' to Mary is rather pointless, is it not?

You believe in soul sleep? Is the soul with God or in the grave? Actually for us Catholics Mary recieved a special priviledge and was bodily assumed in to heaven as Christ's mother so no, you are wrong.

"""""""""HUH"""""""""Mary recieved a what ?

 

[mutzrein]

You believe in soul sleep? Is the soul with God or in the grave? Actually for us Catholics Mary recieved a special priviledge and was bodily assumed in to heaven as Christ's mother so no, you are wrong.

And I'm with Lewis on that one. What???

So why are you saying catholics believe one thing and therefore that makes the other wrong?

 

[CatholicXian]

According to scripture - not me - Mary is presently in the grave awaiting resurrection. So ...whether 'worshipping' or 'showing respect' to Mary is rather pointless, is it not?

You believe in soul sleep? Is the soul with God or in the grave? Actually for us Catholics Mary recieved a special priviledge and was bodily assumed in to heaven as Christ's mother so no, you are wrong.

"""""""""HUH"""""""""Mary recieved a what ?

It's actually a pretty Scriptural concept.

Psalm 132:8 "Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the ark of thy might" (refering here to the Ark of the Covenant).

What was the Ark of the Covenant (in the OT)? It contained bits of the tablet on which the 10 Commandments had been written (law), a piece of Aaron's staff (priesthood), and some manna from the time of the Israelites in the desert (bread from heaven)

Catholics believe Mary is a type of the Ark of the Covenant. Why?

Because of Jesus.

Mary carried in her womb Jesus, the Christ. Who is Jesus? The Divine Lawgiver, the great High Priest, and the Bread of Life. (coincidently all the the things that were also contained in the Ark of the Covenant). :wink:

Thus, the Psalms speak of the Ark arising with Christ, so we say that Mary, as the "Ark" of the New Covenant was assumed into Heaven after Christ's ascension (Christ rose in Heaven on His own power/accord, Mary was assumed--not of her own power, but by God).

 

[Lewis]

According to scripture - not me - Mary is presently in the grave awaiting resurrection. So ...whether 'worshipping' or 'showing respect' to Mary is rather pointless, is it not?

You believe in soul sleep? Is the soul with God or in the grave? Actually for us Catholics Mary recieved a special priviledge and was bodily assumed in to heaven as Christ's mother so no, you are wrong.

"""""""""HUH"""""""""Mary recieved a what ?

It's actually a pretty Scriptural concept.

Psalm 132:8 "Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the ark of thy might" (refering here to the Ark of the Covenant).

What was the Ark of the Covenant (in the OT)? It contained bits of the tablet on which the 10 Commandments had been written (law), a piece of Aaron's staff (priesthood), and some manna from the time of the Israelites in the desert (bread from heaven)

Catholics believe Mary is a type of the Ark of the Covenant. Why?

Because of Jesus.

Mary carried in her womb Jesus, the Christ. Who is Jesus? The Divine Lawgiver, the great High Priest, and the Bread of Life. (coincidently all the the things that were also contained in the Ark of the Covenant). :wink:

Thus, the Psalms speak of the Ark arising with Christ, so we say that Mary, as the "Ark" of the New Covenant was assumed into Heaven after Christ's ascension (Christ rose in Heaven on His own power/accord, Mary was assumed--not of her own power, but by God).

This is a joke right, please tell me it's a joke.

 

[TruthMiner]

According to scripture - not me - Mary is presently in the grave awaiting resurrection. So ...whether 'worshipping' or 'showing respect' to Mary is rather pointless, is it not?

You believe in soul sleep? Is the soul with God or in the grave? Actually for us Catholics Mary recieved a special priviledge and was bodily assumed in to heaven as Christ's mother so no, you are wrong.

"""""""""HUH"""""""""Mary recieved a what ?

It's actually a pretty Scriptural concept.

Psalm 132:8 "Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the ark of thy might" (refering here to the Ark of the Covenant).

What was the Ark of the Covenant (in the OT)? It contained bits of the tablet on which the 10 Commandments had been written (law), a piece of Aaron's staff (priesthood), and some manna from the time of the Israelites in the desert (bread from heaven)

Catholics believe Mary is a type of the Ark of the Covenant. Why?

Because of Jesus.

Mary carried in her womb Jesus, the Christ. Who is Jesus? The Divine Lawgiver, the great High Priest, and the Bread of Life. (coincidently all the the things that were also contained in the Ark of the Covenant). :wink:

Thus, the Psalms speak of the Ark arising with Christ, so we say that Mary, as the "Ark" of the New Covenant was assumed into Heaven after Christ's ascension (Christ rose in Heaven on His own power/accord, Mary was assumed--not of her own power, but by God).

Actually, the best argument is to compare the language used by Luke to the language used to describe the ark being brought into Jerusalem by David. It is rather eye-opening.

 

[TruthMiner]

According to scripture - not me - Mary is presently in the grave awaiting resurrection. So ...whether 'worshipping' or 'showing respect' to Mary is rather pointless, is it not?

You believe in soul sleep? Is the soul with God or in the grave? Actually for us Catholics Mary recieved a special priviledge and was bodily assumed in to heaven as Christ's mother so no, you are wrong.

"""""""""HUH"""""""""Mary recieved a what ?

It's actually a pretty Scriptural concept.

Psalm 132:8 "Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the ark of thy might" (refering here to the Ark of the Covenant).

What was the Ark of the Covenant (in the OT)? It contained bits of the tablet on which the 10 Commandments had been written (law), a piece of Aaron's staff (priesthood), and some manna from the time of the Israelites in the desert (bread from heaven)

Catholics believe Mary is a type of the Ark of the Covenant. Why?

Because of Jesus.

Mary carried in her womb Jesus, the Christ. Who is Jesus? The Divine Lawgiver, the great High Priest, and the Bread of Life. (coincidently all the the things that were also contained in the Ark of the Covenant). :wink:

Thus, the Psalms speak of the Ark arising with Christ, so we say that Mary, as the "Ark" of the New Covenant was assumed into Heaven after Christ's ascension (Christ rose in Heaven on His own power/accord, Mary was assumed--not of her own power, but by God).

Actually, the best argument is to compare the language used by Luke concerning Mary to the language used to describe the ark being brought into Jerusalem by David. It is rather eye-opening.

 

[CatholicXian]

[quote="Lewis W":abe77]

According to scripture - not me - Mary is presently in the grave awaiting resurrection. So ...whether 'worshipping' or 'showing respect' to Mary is rather pointless, is it not?

You believe in soul sleep? Is the soul with God or in the grave? Actually for us Catholics Mary recieved a special priviledge and was bodily assumed in to heaven as Christ's mother so no, you are wrong.

"""""""""HUH"""""""""Mary recieved a what ?

It's actually a pretty Scriptural concept.

Psalm 132:8 "Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the ark of thy might" (refering here to the Ark of the Covenant).

What was the Ark of the Covenant (in the OT)? It contained bits of the tablet on which the 10 Commandments had been written (law), a piece of Aaron's staff (priesthood), and some manna from the time of the Israelites in the desert (bread from heaven)

Catholics believe Mary is a type of the Ark of the Covenant. Why?

Because of Jesus.

Mary carried in her womb Jesus, the Christ. Who is Jesus? The Divine Lawgiver, the great High Priest, and the Bread of Life. (coincidently all the the things that were also contained in the Ark of the Covenant). :wink:

Thus, the Psalms speak of the Ark arising with Christ, so we say that Mary, as the "Ark" of the New Covenant was assumed into Heaven after Christ's ascension (Christ rose in Heaven on His own power/accord, Mary was assumed--not of her own power, but by God).

This is a joke right, please tell me it's a joke.[/quote:abe77]
Do you disagree that Jesus is the Divine Lawgiver, great High Priest, and the Bread of Life? Or do you disagree that Mary actually gave birth to Jesus?

I'm not sure how that could be construed as a joke.

 

[thessalonian]

You believe in soul sleep? Is the soul with God or in the grave? Actually for us Catholics Mary recieved a special priviledge and was bodily assumed in to heaven as Christ's mother so no, you are wrong.

And I'm with Lewis on that one. What???

So why are you saying catholics believe one thing and therefore that makes the other wrong?

I am not. But you can't argue with me from a basis of accepting soul sleep. I don't.

 

[thessalonian]

According to scripture - not me - Mary is presently in the grave awaiting resurrection. So ...whether 'worshipping' or 'showing respect' to Mary is rather pointless, is it not?

You believe in soul sleep? Is the soul with God or in the grave? Actually for us Catholics Mary recieved a special priviledge and was bodily assumed in to heaven as Christ's mother so no, you are wrong.

"""""""""HUH"""""""""Mary recieved a what ?

You don't believe that God gives some privlidges (graces) that he does not give others? Pick up your Bible. It's all over. Some are teachers and healers and prophets, each man/woman recieves certain graces (privledges) for the work that God has for them and as a reward at the end of life.

 

[Heidi]

According to scripture - not me - Mary is presently in the grave awaiting resurrection. So ...whether 'worshipping' or 'showing respect' to Mary is rather pointless, is it not?

You believe in soul sleep? Is the soul with God or in the grave? Actually for us Catholics Mary recieved a special priviledge and was bodily assumed in to heaven as Christ's mother so no, you are wrong.

"""""""""HUH"""""""""Mary recieved a what ?

You don't believe that God gives some privlidges (graces) that he does not give others? Pick up your Bible. It's all over. Some are teachers and healers and prophets, each man/woman recieves certain graces (privledges) for the work that God has for them and as a reward at the end of life.

If you picked up your bible then you would know that it is still God to whom we give credit for what He does in us, not the person him or herself. Please read 1 Corinthians 3:1-15 to understand that. Paul said " For what afterall is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants through whom you came to believe-as the Lord assigned to each his task." That includes Mary as well. In this whole passage Paul is telling us not to follow people, but only God because following people is what causes divisions between us. I also urge you to read the thread on Christian gods.

 

[thessalonian]

Heidi,

I'm really tired of listening to you. Paul tells people to follow him! So how can he tell us not to follow people and then turn around and tell people to follow him. You haven't a clue. Paul tells us to imitate him as he imitates Christ. He also tells us to imitate others who have imitated Christ. WE are to follow those who are following Christ. Yes, in the end ultimately we need to be sure that we follow Chirst. That he is the reason for everything we do. And we are not to divide against others by the men who lead us. But that does not mean God does not give us leaders. You are a very ameturish bible reader who thinks she knows it all.