The Removing Of 1 Of The 10 Commandments

[Heidi]

Heidi,

I'm really tired of listening to you. Paul tells people to follow him! So how can he tell us not to follow people and then turn around and tell people to follow him. You haven't a clue. Paul tells us to imitate him as he imitates Christ. He also tells us to imitate others who have imitated Christ. WE are to follow those who are following Christ. Yes, in the end ultimately we need to be sure that we follow Chirst. That he is the reason for everything we do. And we are not to divide against others by the men who lead us. But that does not mean God does not give us leaders. You are a very ameturish bible reader who thinks she knows it all.

:o It's the exact opposite! You need to provide verses that verify your beliefs. But again, you have none.

Jesus said; "you have one teacher and that is the Christ. " So you are contradicting Jesus once again and Paul in 1 Corinthians 3:1-9 where Paul tells us not to follow Paul, Apollos or any man because they are only servants through whom we came to believe. Then read the rest of the chapter. So you are contradicting the bible again, Thess.

And if you did listen to those who believed the bible and more importantly, listened to the bible itself, then you wouldn't contradict it so much. Yet you're the first one to accuse others of not believing the bible. So you have either not read the bible or you don't believe it because your beliefs are the exact opposite of the bible!

 

[Heidi]

But since I doubt you'll read the bible, I'll quote it for you:

1 Corinthians 3:5, "What afterall is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants through whom you came to believe-as the lord assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who makes things grow."

So Paul is saying the exact opposite of what you said, Thess. This whole chapter deals with what causes division of unbelievers which is following people instead of God. The Calvinists follow Calvin, the Lutherans, follow Luther, the catholics follow the pope, etc. And since they all disagree with each other they cannot all be right. But if all people followed only Christ, (which is the Word of God), there would be no division.

But it appears you have no clue what Paul is talking about so conversing with you is a waste of time.

 

[thessalonian]

:o It's the exact opposite! You need to provide verses that verify your beliefs. But again, you have none.

:-? Why do I feel like we've had this discussion before. You cannot ever acknowledge that you agree with a Catholic. I highly doudt you believe that no men are to teach. The Bible speaks all over the place of teachers.

Jas.3
[1] Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness.

So I doudt you believe that James said there were to be teachers but no students. maybe you don't like James. Here's Paul for you:

Eph.4
[11] And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,

Is Paul contradicting Christ Heidi? No more than I am. For if a man teaches what Christ teaches, then it is Christ teaching. You argue in nonsensical circles.
Heidi you are here only to attack, no matter what I say. I give you plenty of scripture. More than you give me. Your posts are nothing but trite prejudice.


I'll not answer any more posts from you for a day or two. Honest dialogue is not possible from one who is going to twist what I say at every turn.

 

[Heidi]

And by the way, Thess, calling people names doesn't make you right. It only makes you look childish. You are only right if you agree with scripture and since you have no quotes of scripture to back up most of your beliefs, I can see why get so frustrated. But you wouldn't get frustrated if you simply believed the bible, not just say you do. ;-)

 

[Heidi]

:o It's the exact opposite! You need to provide verses that verify your beliefs. But again, you have none.

:-? Why do I feel like we've had this discussion before. You cannot ever acknowledge that you agree with a Catholic. I highly doudt you believe that no men are to teach. The Bible speaks all over the place of teachers.

Jas.3
[1] Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness.

So I doudt you believe that James said there were to be teachers but no students. maybe you don't like James. Here's Paul for you:

Eph.4
[11] And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,

Is Paul contradicting Christ Heidi? No more than I am. For if a man teaches what Christ teaches, then it is Christ teaching. You argue in nonsensical circles.
Heidi you are here only to attack, no matter what I say. I give you plenty of scripture. More than you give me. Your posts are nothing but trite prejudice.


I'll not answer any more posts from you for a day or two. Honest dialogue is not possible from one who is going to twist what I say at every turn.

If the catholics agreed with scripture, then I would be happy to agree with them! But it is you who can't acknowledge that the pope is wrong. Ever. And that is seeing the pope as a God. But you sure tdo think scripture is wrong!

I was fortunate to not ever go to church as a child. So when I became born again, I read the bible and believed every word of it. So I had not been brain-washed by a pastor or looked to fallible human beings for the truth. Therefore, my one teacher is the Christ.

But it doesn't appear that you have the Holy Spirit in you or you wouldn't look to fallible human beings to interpret the bible for you. You would simply believe it all by your self. And that is where your problem is, Thess.

The only true teachers are those who agree with the bible and do not change it, insert their own words, or make up their own gospel. And that is because the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ is teaching them). The Holy Spirit is the same Spirit with which the bible was written so they will always be in agreement. But you contradict:

Matthew 1:25
Matthew 23:9-12
1 Corntinthians 3:1-10
Leviticua 26:1
The second commandment
Romans 1: 23
Matthew 12:30

And I'm sure there are many more. You contradict the last one where Jesus said; "He who is not with me is against me" because you cannot both at the same time disagree with the scripture above and say you are with Christ.

So since there are so many passages you contradict, then I cannot consider you credible. Nasty attacks, yelling and name-calling do not prove you right, which is something you have yet to understand.

 

[thessalonian]

Whatever Heidi. :-?

God bless

 

[Heidi]

Whatever Heidi. :-?

God bless

I don't need the pope's blessings. Thank you anyway.

 

[Imagican]

Come on now, let us give 'some' credit to Thess. It must not be easy to defend oneself against a 'pack' of Protestants. he he he. He seems at times to be; "as busy as a centipede in a toe countin' contest" (Foghorn Leghorn, Warner Brothers).

Thess, hats off to ya. You often seem to be alone in your defense of Catholic doctrine. You do a relatively good job in it's defense, (as good as can be offered I guess). But you still seem to have to get 'really out there' in this defense sometimes. I do not envy your position.

Mary was a sinner like all of us are sinners. I'm sure that her sins were different than many, and maybe less, but a sinner she was or the Bible is NOT the truth. Christ has been the ONLY human that was/is sinless.

Mary also had 'children' of her own with Joseph as their father. And Mary did NOT give birth to God. She gave birth to the Son of God. She was the mother of the Son of God.

And the Bible PLAINLY states that upon death of our physical bodies we WILL sleep, Just as David sleeps, until time for judgement. And Purgatory is just another Catholic creation. There is NO purgatory, as they teach, in the Word.

It is very strange that; 'now that the Bible is available to the masses' that there are still those that can be misled as to it's contents. When NO ONE had the Word, other than the leaders of the churches, it is quite understandable that they were at the mercy of those that 'taught' them what it contained. But now that we have access to the 'same' Word that they use, it seems very peculiar that one could still read into the Word what doesn't exist there.

 

[thessalonian]

Coming from someone who denies the divinity of Christ, I don't think your Biblical opionions mean a whole lot. Could be wrong since there are others who deny 2000 years of teaching on scripture.

Yes, I know the Catholic Church continues to get bashed and slandered for trying to give the scriptures in the only way they could to the ignornant masses who could not read and somehow it is there fault that everyone didn't have a Bible. Thank God now everyone has one and there is rampant confusion and contradiction everywhere you turn. Isn't this lovely. Imagician asserts himself as a Bible scholar like every other ameature out there. Everyone seems to be an authority on what the Bible says. Isn't that lovely.

 

[thessalonian]

By the way, I do thank you for your kind remarks but I don't need your sympathy.

 

[Imagican]

No Thess, a scholar I ain't. I simply read the Word and PRAY.

I have NEVER denied the divinity of Christ, I simply have a 'different' understanding of it than many.

And YES the Bible was denied to the 'people' for over 1500 years. The discrepancies that the the Catholic Church taught was the MAIN reason. Just as they imprisoned or murdered those that 'proved' the falsehoods that the Church taught PROVES.

And it seems that ever since the Bible was allowed into the hands of the masses, the Catholic Church has had it's hands full trying to defend their actions of the past. They have also done much to try and 'change' their 'appearance' as far as doctrine is concerned. Of the many pro-'Catholic' websites I have visited offer. Where once they commanded and demanded, now they beg, plead and offer a 'more soothing' form of religion, filled with 'hide and seek'.

And Thess, I was trying to defend you, not argue with you. Once again, I think you do one heck of a job. You have my respect and admiration. Really. If I were in a 'potato fight' against thirty other people, I would 'RUN'. You stand your ground regardless. One's got to respect dat. I know I do.

And I wasn't offering sympathy. You don't seem to need that of all things. I was 'trying' to offer encouragement in my own 'simple minded' kind of way.

I am ANYTHING but an expert on the Word. I read it and hope that God will see fit to offer understanding through the Spirit. But I choose the Word of God over the words of men EVERY TIME. And tradition, as far as that wholly created by men, I do my best to avoid at ALL COSTS.

 

[thessalonian]

And tradition, as far as that wholly created by men, I do my best to avoid at ALL COSTS.

So do I. :-D

 

[mutzrein]

You believe in soul sleep? Is the soul with God or in the grave? Actually for us Catholics Mary recieved a special priviledge and was bodily assumed in to heaven as Christ's mother so no, you are wrong.

And I'm with Lewis on that one. What???

So why are you saying catholics believe one thing and therefore that makes the other wrong?

I am not. But you can't argue with me from a basis of accepting soul sleep. I don't.

The agreement I had with Lewis was the exclamation 'What' . . . and it was with reference to Mary. But that is neither here nor there for now.

Since you raised it, I really don't know how 'soul sleep' is defined so obviously I cannot agree / disagree either way. Can you help enlighten me here pse? Thanks.

 

[Imagican]

I think what Thess is offering is that he DOES NOT believe that upon our physical deaths, we 'sleep'. That would be the indication from his posts. For Mary to be in heaven, (able to hear their prayers), sho could NOT be asleep like David or others that have lost their physical lives.

 

[mutzrein]

I think what Thess is offering is that he DOES NOT believe that upon our physical deaths, we 'sleep'. That would be the indication from his posts. For Mary to be in heaven, (able to hear their prayers), sho could NOT be asleep like David or others that have lost their physical lives.

Thanks Imagican - My ignorance shows huh. You see I don't know about all these strange doctrines & theologies of man. I don't need to read their books. I guess that is what happens when one is taught by God.

 

[thessalonian]

I think what Thess is offering is that he DOES NOT believe that upon our physical deaths, we 'sleep'. That would be the indication from his posts. For Mary to be in heaven, (able to hear their prayers), sho could NOT be asleep like David or others that have lost their physical lives.

Not quite. The body sleeps but the soul is separated from the body and lives. However in Mary's case she did not go through soul separation.

 

[mutzrein]

I think what Thess is offering is that he DOES NOT believe that upon our physical deaths, we 'sleep'. That would be the indication from his posts. For Mary to be in heaven, (able to hear their prayers), sho could NOT be asleep like David or others that have lost their physical lives.

Not quite. The body sleeps but the soul is separated from the body and lives. However in Mary's case she did not go through soul separation.

So what, in your estimation, happens to the spirit?

 

[thessalonian]

I think what Thess is offering is that he DOES NOT believe that upon our physical deaths, we 'sleep'. That would be the indication from his posts. For Mary to be in heaven, (able to hear their prayers), sho could NOT be asleep like David or others that have lost their physical lives.

Not quite. The body sleeps but the soul is separated from the body and lives. However in Mary's case she did not go through soul separation.

So what, in your estimation, happens to the spirit?

It is with Christ in heaven after a cleansing if neccessary.

 

[Imagican]

And is this 'cleansing process' the payment by living souls to bring about the cleansing of those that are alive no longer? I mean the payment of 'cash' in order for a priest to pray for them while in purgatory?

 

[thessalonian]

And is this 'cleansing process' the payment by living souls to bring about the cleansing of those that are alive no longer? I mean the payment of 'cash' in order for a priest to pray for them while in purgatory?

Nope.

Dateline April 14, priest in Minnesota takes 5 dollar kickback to pray for people in purgatory. The police are going to investigate this filthy lucre. The priests are getting fantastically rich off of 5 dollars a day. They may even be able to purchase a new cassock in a year. You simply have no clue what goes on in Catholic circles Imigican but you speak as if you do. You accuse people when you have no solid knowledge to do so. Inuendo and accusation, essentially gossip about people you don't like. That is bearing false witness.

Blessings though