The Return of Christ

[Keraz]

Please do not tell others they are wrong because you do not agree with them as that is very rude.

Apologies if I seem to be rude, but a direct contradiction of scripture, is wrong.

The sixth seal was opened and there was a great earthquake

What the Sixth Seal Prophesies, is the mountains moving out of their place..... This describes tectonic plate movement. The rest of the effects remain unfulfilled; the moon has never shone as brightly as the sun, or blood red. Isaiah 30:26

The war we read about in the fourth seal is Global war as these armies will use nuclear and chemical weaponry that not only kills a fourth of the people living on earth

WW1 and WW2 achieved those deaths.
There will be no war to commence the end times, as the Lord will send His fiery wrath and destroy them all. Ezekiel 7:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, 2 Peter 3:7

The stars that fall from heaven

Are our satellites.

 

[RandyK]

So what does this have to do with us today, 2,000 years later?

Israel is still in the age of punishment, due to their having rejected, as a people, their Messiah Jesus. We have the Middle East going on, right?

 

[RandyK]

Israel is still in the age of punishment, due to their having rejected, as a people, their Messiah Jesus. We have the Middle East going on, right?

1 Cor 10.1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.” We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9 We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10 And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.
11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

 

[Elijah7777]

Israel is still in the age of punishment, due to their having rejected, as a people, their Messiah Jesus. We have the Middle East going on, right?

Do you think that is why they are always at war with their Muslim brothers, because God is punishing them?

 

[RandyK]

God is in the process of saving the nation from their sins, even as He punishes them for the continued intransigence. God has put the Jewish nation in a position of having to defend themselves, pleading with God for help and for mercy. Some will never repent, but I believe a remnant ultimately will.

 

[Elijah7777]

even as He punishes them

Discipline and punishment are not the same, though they are often confused. Here’s the key difference:

• Discipline is about teaching and guiding someone toward better behavior. It focuses on learning, self-control, and long-term growth.
• Punishment is about imposing consequences for wrongdoing, often to deter future misbehavior. It can be negative and may not always lead to learning.

God does not punish people. With God all things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His plan and purpose.

 

[Hidden In Him]

God does not punish people.

Ah, what scriptures are you basing this assumption on?

 

[Elijah7777]

Ah, what scriptures are you basing this assumption on?

I understand what you are saying, but I am going to address this anyways.

Psalm 103:10 GNB "He does not punish us as we deserve or repay us according to our sins and wrongs." I was talking about believers, not unbelievers. This is why Jesus went to Calvary for us. We are told: Hebrews 9:22 – "Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness."
"But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed." (Isaiah 53:5)

 

[RandyK]

Discipline and punishment are not the same, though they are often confused. Here’s the key difference:

• Discipline is about teaching and guiding someone toward better behavior. It focuses on learning, self-control, and long-term growth.
• Punishment is about imposing consequences for wrongdoing, often to deter future misbehavior. It can be negative and may not always lead to learning.

God does not punish people. With God all things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His plan and purpose.

God does not punish people? You did not get that idea from the Bible.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Psalm 103:10 GNB "He does not punish us as we deserve or repay us according to our sins and wrongs." I was talking about believers, not unbelievers.

The tense is wrong here. Proper translation is in past tense. He was talking about God having mercy on Israel when He could have destroyed them, and should read, "He has not dealt with us according to our sins or repaid us according to our iniquities." This is the case with the vast majority of English translations.

Psalm 103

Elijah, He very much disciplines and punishes His children. Hebrews teaches this, as does 1st Corinthians and some of the gospels.

5 You have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." 7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. (Hebrews 12:5-11)

 

[RandyK]

I understand what you are saying, but I am going to address this anyways.

Psalm 103:10 GNB "He does not punish us as we deserve or repay us according to our sins and wrongs." I was talking about believers, not unbelievers. This is why Jesus went to Calvary for us. We are told: Hebrews 9:22 – "Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness."
"But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed." (Isaiah 53:5)

You were talking about believers, not unbelievers? You were responding to my statement indicating that God was dealing with *unbelieving* Jews. God punishes us for our sins, believers and unbelievers, in the hope of turning us back to righteousness. You can call it "discipline" if it applies to believers, but it still constitutes a form of *punishment.*

With unbelievers God wishes the same, to use punishment to turn unbelievers back to righteousness and to faith. You can call it "discipline," if there is hope to turn one back, or you can simply call it *judgment* as it pertains to someone unwilling to repent.

But the Scriptures say that what a man sows, he shall reap. This is true of believers as well as unbelievers. For those of us who repent, we escape what we deserve. God does not punish us according to what we deserve *when we repent.*

 

[for_his_glory]

Apologies if I seem to be rude, but a direct contradiction of scripture, is wrong.

What the Sixth Seal Prophesies, is the mountains moving out of their place..... This describes tectonic plate movement. The rest of the effects remain unfulfilled; the moon has never shone as brightly as the sun, or blood red. Isaiah 30:26

WW1 and WW2 achieved those deaths.
There will be no war to commence the end times, as the Lord will send His fiery wrath and destroy them all. Ezekiel 7:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, 2 Peter 3:7

Are our satellites.

I am talking about future end time events that have not happened yet, not what has already happened in history.

 

[Elijah7777]

You were responding to my statement indicating that God was dealing with *unbelieving* Jews. God punishes us for our sins, believers and unbelievers, in the hope of turning us back to righteousness.

Your perspective reflects a common biblical theme—God’s justice and mercy working together. Throughout the Bible, Israel faced judgment for disobedience, yet God continually called them to repentance and offered redemption. Many passages speak of a remnant that will turn back to God:

 

[Elijah7777]

God does not punish people?

God is calling people to repentance. It is easy to judge others but we are to judge ourselves.

 

[for_his_glory]

God does not punish people? You did not get that idea from the Bible.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Is this fair and justifiable? Why would God create evil if He is suppose to be a loving just God?

The evil that God has created are His righteous judgements that come upon those who are not obedient to His commands. It's like that of the10 plagues in the book of Exodus as Pharaoh oppresses Israel while taken them into captivity as even though God gave him a chance to let them go he refused so God's punishment came against Egypt.

The same with many battles we read of in the OT that came against God's people as all is done in righteous judgement of God to show He is the Great I Am, Exodus 3:10-15.

So will it also be in the end of days when Christ returns in all His righteous judgement, Rev 19:11-21.

 

[RandyK]

God is calling people to repentance. It is easy to judge others but we are to judge ourselves.

There are several kinds of "judgment" in the Bible. We are not to judge by appearances. We are not to judge before the time, as in condemning someone to instant eternal judgment. Judges in court are to judge responsibly and appropriately, without bias.

On the other hand, Christians are supposed to judge those within the church who stir up needless controversy or who promote immorality and heresy. We do not directly judge those outside the church, but in giving our testimony to the truth they come under judgment from God for rejecting our testimony.

"Do not judge," spoken by Jesus, had a particular context. We are to align our statements with God's word to our hearts so that what we say does not misrepresent our witness to the Lord. We are to bear proper witness, and to not take the Lord's name in vain.

 

[Elijah7777]

Is this fair and justifiable?

God is Just, Right and Holy. That does not mean we understand Justice. We know that Jesus went to Calvery because He paid the price for us and the Justice of God. The atheist tries to show that God is not Justice when we know that He is.

 

[Elijah7777]

"Do not judge," spoken by Jesus, had a particular context.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged." (Matthew 7:1) People can only judge themselves. God does not give us the ability to judge others.

 

[Elijah7777]

I am talking about future end time events that have not happened yet, not what has already happened in history.

Solomon says there is nothing new under the sun. Some take this to mean that there is nothing that is going to happen that has not already happened.

 

[RandyK]

"Judge not, that ye be not judged." (Matthew 7:1) People can only judge themselves. God does not give us the ability to judge others.

1 Cor 5.12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
6.1 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!