The Royal "We" of Genesis

[theLords]

I'm very happy for you. Yes, fall on your face and honor him. You are rich in faith.

Wait! Wait!

Why does the concept of the Trinity still make sense to me?

For some reason or another, I am able to reconcile everything we talked about and agreed upon with the concept of the Trinity. Why is that?

I'm just floored right now. The only thing that keeps running through my head is "Oh my, Jesus is God. Oh my, Jesus is God. Oh my, Jesus is God..."

It feels like I'm being "born again" right here in this thread, does that make sense?

 

[Ashua]

Wait! Wait!

Why does the concept of the Trinity still make sense to me?

For some reason or another, I am able to reconcile everything we talked about and agreed upon with the concept of the Trinity. Why is that?

I'm just floored right now. The only thing that keeps running through my head is "Oh my, Jesus is God. Oh my, Jesus is God. Oh my, Jesus is God..."

It feels like I'm being "born again" right here in this thread, does that make sense?

I don't know. I don't know if your diction and connotation is the same as mine or anyone elses. What is the trinity in your own words?

Do you believe the Father and Son and Holy Spirit are one being expressed in three forms? Do you believe the Father is NOT the Son Who is NOT the Holy Spirit who is NOT the Father but all three ARE God? (As in the union of THREE members makes up one God) or do you have some other concept?

 

[Ashua]

Let me put this another way:

You may be a mother. You may be a daughter. You may be a sister. You may be a friend. You may be a wife.

You are those roles in ONE person.

That is one interpretation. "The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" Are ONE being expressed in 3 concurrent ways.

the OTHER way to interpret it is:

The Father is God but is NOT the Son. The Son is God but is Not The Father or the Holy Ghost and so on.

This is more like a team:

You have a Quarterback and a Running back and a Tight end. They are all players on ONE TEAM but NOT the same person.

 

[theLords]

I don't know. I don't know if your diction and connotation is the same as mine or anyone elses. What is the trinity in your own words?

Do you believe the Father and Son and Holy Spirit are one being expressed in three forms? Do you believe the Father is NOT the Son Who is NOT the Holy Spirit who is NOT the Father but all three ARE God? (As in the union of THREE members makes up one God) or do you have some other concept?

From my walk with the Lord, and my personal experience within my relationship with Him.

I believe that there is the One God: Father, Son, and Spirit.

Basically:

God = Father = Son = Holy Spirit

I don't believe that:

Father ≠ Son ≠ Holy Spirit (I have never subscribed to this)

Am I a Trinitarian?

To me the Trinity meant a Triune God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit in the way that I just explained.

The magnitude of our infinite God is blowing a hole into my puny human brain right now...

 

[glorydaz]

Isaiah 6:8 Bible Lexicon

Check for yourself.

Hmmm...I can't make heads nor tails of Hebrew. Sorry.

I do see Young's has it thus...

Isaiah 6:8 (Young's Literal Translation)

8And I hear the voice of the Lord, saying: `Whom do I send? and who doth go for Us?' And I say, `Here [am] I, send me.'

I can't so easily dismiss Genesis, either. The Lord has given us His Word in English so we can have access to the truth. If we are to doubt every translation then He's really left us without anything, hasn't He?

 

[Ashua]

From my walk with the Lord, and my personal experience within my relationship with Him.

I believe that there is the One God: Father, Son, and Spirit.

Basically:

God = Father = Son = Holy Spirit

I don't believe that:

Father ≠ Son ≠ Holy Spirit (I have never subscribed to this)

Am I a Trinitarian?

To me the Trinity meant a Triune God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit in the way that I just explained.

The magnitude of our infinite God is blowing a hole into my puny human brain right now...

You are what is called a "oneness" believer. I prefer to call it en Echadist.

Trinitarians believe Father=/=Son=/=Holy Spirit.

You are not a trinitarian in the traditional sense of the word. You DO acknowledge the three major manifestations of God though.

 

[theLords]

Let me put this another way:

You may be a mother. You may be a daughter. You may be a sister. You may be a friend. You may be a wife.

You are those roles in ONE person.

That is one interpretation. "The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" Are ONE being expressed in 3 concurrent ways.

the OTHER way to interpret it is:

The Father is God but is NOT the Son. The Son is God but is Not The Father or the Holy Ghost and so on.

This is more like a team:

You have a Quarterback and a Running back and a Tight end. They are all players on ONE TEAM but NOT the same person.

This I agree with

This I do not agree with as it, yet strangely I seemed to think the Lord did in fact operate as a team WITHIN Himself. Does that make sense?

This is going to take alot of prayer and Bible study, as the Lord has just collapsed everything I thought I believed in...

 

[theLords]

You are what is called a "oneness" believer. I prefer to call it en Echadist.

Trinitarians believe Father=/=Son=/=Holy Spirit.

You are not a trinitarian in the traditional sense of the word. You DO acknowledge the three major manifestations of God though.

Thanks for explaining this brother. I feel better now that I am able to understand what I have always believed in.

And here I thought I was a Trinitarian, go figure.

 

[Ashua]

Hmmm...I can't make heads nor tails of Hebrew. Sorry.

I do see Young's has it thus...

I can't so easily dismiss Genesis, either. The Lord has given us His Word in English so we can have access to the truth. If we are to doubt every translation then He's really left us without anything, hasn't He?

You can trust the scriptures we have in English, but know they arent the "official" copy. In fact, we have a third generation translation.

Hebrew --> Greek--> English.

Hebrew actually translates better into English than it does Greek.

So our translation suffers because of this alone. That is how we have the name Jesus and not Yeshua. Greek names dont end in vowels and there is no SH in Greek. The J is the product of the English J changing its sound though.

"Joshua" is actually how it would be translated if it was direct.

Youngs is generally a good translation, but look at the concordance. It tells you the word , how it is translated and the exact definition of the word.

You can see plainly how they added to and reworked the Hebrew to fit into an English grammatical structure as well as drawn inferences.

 

[sk0rpi0n]

Let me put this another way:

You may be a mother. You may be a daughter. You may be a sister. You may be a friend. You may be a wife.

You are those roles in ONE person.

That is one interpretation. "The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" Are ONE being expressed in 3 concurrent ways.

the OTHER way to interpret it is:

The Father is God but is NOT the Son. The Son is God but is Not The Father or the Holy Ghost and so on.

This is more like a team:

You have a Quarterback and a Running back and a Tight end. They are all players on ONE TEAM but NOT the same person.

Are there any verses in the Bible that you can back these claims that "God" is actually a team consisting of Father, son and holy spirit?

Did Jesus actually mean to say that God was ONE team of Father, son and holy spirit when he said "God is one"?


I know of so many verses where its made explicitly clear by God, the Old Testament prophets and Jesus... that God is one being who controls the Holy spirit and sent Jesus into this world to carry out a mission.

 

[Ashua]

This I agree with

This I do not agree with as it, yet strangely I seemed to think the Lord did in fact operate as a team WITHIN Himself. Does that make sense?

This is going to take alot of prayer and Bible study, as the Lord has just collapsed everything I thought I believed in...

Trust in the LORD to guide your understanding. It is written if you seek him with all of your heart, you will find him.

Clint Eastwood is an actor. he is also a director. IN films such as unforgiven and gran torino, he has both acted and directed the film. You could say he was a team working within himself to use your terminology. One man --fulfilling many offices.

 

[glorydaz]

From my walk with the Lord, and my personal experience within my relationship with Him.

I believe that there is the One God: Father, Son, and Spirit.

Basically:

God = Father = Son = Holy Spirit

I don't believe that:

Father ≠ Son ≠ Holy Spirit (I have never subscribed to this)

Am I a Trinitarian?

To me the Trinity meant a Triune God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit in the way that I just explained.

The magnitude of our infinite God is blowing a hole into my puny human brain right now...

Yeah.... 1 + 1 + 1 equals 1...not 3 as some would have us to believe.

I've always felt the big mistake is calling God three "persons" in one.
That seems to have led a lot of people to believe in a separateness that does not exist.

Remember, we are made in the image of God with a body, soul, and spirit.

 

[Ashua]

Are there any verses in the Bible that you can back these claims that "God" is actually a team consisting of Father, son and holy spirit?

Did Jesus actually mean to say that God was ONE team of Father, son and holy spirit when he said "God is one"?


I know of so many verses where its made explicitly clear by God, the Old Testament prophets and Jesus... that God is one being who controls the Holy spirit and sent Jesus into this world to carry out a mission.

You mean like the one I posted several times?

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I and [my] Father are one.

 

[theLords]

I'm going to PM you this msg.

 

[Ashua]

1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all

Colossians 2:9-10
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.


IF THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD/DIVINITY IS INSIDE OF CHRIST, DOESN'T THAT INCLUDE HE FATHER AND THE HOLY SPIRIT???


John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

 

[theLords]

Trust in the LORD to guide your understanding. It is written if you seek him with all of your heart, you will find him.

Thank you for this Scripture verse. It was incredibly comforting. The Lord spoke that verse to me a few days ago and I was wondering why and what He was trying to say. Now, I can see why He said it...

 

[Ashua]

Thank you for this Scripture verse. It was incredibly comforting. The Lord spoke that verse to me a few days ago and I was wondering why and what He was trying to say. Now, I can see why He said it...

Isn't it wonderful?

 

[sk0rpi0n]

You mean like the one I posted several times?

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I and [my] Father are one.

Yeah, Ive read through this entire thread. I mean to say where in the Bible do we find a verse that is parallel to your "team" analogy? Sure "Father, son and holy spirit" are used in a single sentence once, but it still doesn't undo the tons of other verses where its made clear that God is one... i.e, and not a team of Father, son and holy spirit.

When, Jesus prayed to God... was one part of the "team" praying to another part of the team, asking to be saved, if possible?

Either way, the verses you've quoted just cover the Father and son part of the "team". Where does he holy spirit figure in those verses? The "spirit" has always been shown to be under control of God and not a seperate entity of its own, thats part of a "team".

 

[Ashua]

Yeah, Ive read through this entire thread. I mean to say where in the Bible do we find a verse that is parallel to your "team" analogy? Sure "Father, son and holy spirit" are used in a single sentence once, but it still doesn't undo the tons of other verses where its made clear that God is one... i.e, and not a team of Father, son and holy spirit.

When, Jesus prayed to God... was one part of the "team" praying to another part of the team, asking to be saved, if possible?

Either way, the verses you've quoted just cover the Father and son part of the "team". Where does he holy spirit figure in those verses? The "spirit" has always been shown to be under control of God and not a seperate entity of its own, thats part of a "team".

The team analogy was just my attempt to explain to the Lords what a trinitarian concept is as opposed to a oneness concept.

3 persons working in unison to one goal under one perfect accord in the title "God".

Is that not the trinity doctrine? Doesn't that also sound like a team?

I don't know what you believe concerning the trinity. I wasnt endorsing this. That was just my attempt to explain the difference to the Lords so she would understand the definition of trinitarian and how it is not the same as oneness.

 

[sk0rpi0n]

My beliefs regarding the "tinity" -
I do not subscribe to it... based on what the bible has taught me.

Its clear to me that, God "the father" controls the spirit and sent Jesus to carry out a mission. The "Father" does not need a team to have his will done. The holy spirit and Jesus are agents of God..and not part of God.
God has made it abundantly clear that He is one and there is none like Him. Besides, Jesus himself prayed to God, preached that God alone is to be worshipped, asked to be saved by God... and said these words - "why do you call me good, no one is good but God".

Tell me, how does the above and the peculiar situation of one team member praying to another team member fit in with the "team" analogy?