Justified by faith. Not of works lest any man shall boast.
Obedience to God's will because it's what God wants. It how you show your love to God.
The great commandment, Love God.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
The Sabbath day was made for man, not man for the Sabbath
- Thread starter Humblepie
- Start date
Obedience to God's will because it's what God wants. It how you show your love to God.
The great commandment, Love God.
I don't assume anything. That's where false doctrine comes from.
And there is no way you tested all those post to scripture, so you cant assume I'm wrong either.
Test it. Study it. Context matters.
I don't need to better understanding what Heb 7 is saying--it's obvious. You just want to rationalize it away. So you copy and past a pile of info rationalizing it away. Your choice....
You're wrong. The Law of Moses certainly could write its requirements on the heart of the people. There is no other way they could've successfully obeyed it, and some of them did obey it.
Moses talked about a New Covenant that would succeed in doing this in a new environment called the New Covenant. It would succeed in saving the nation, whereas earlier efforts under the Law would fail.
There is no earthly priesthood on earth now that remotely resembles the Law of Moses. I have no clue what you're talking about?
I've answered this, and obviously you have no interest in considering the arguments. So I have no interest in addressing your "pastes" either. Either answer what I wrote before on it, or I'm ignoring your repeated arguments.
I didn't think you could grasp it.
Nothing separates them but your belief. Now you pick and choose what laws are valid without scripture to back your picking and choosing.
Where does the scripture tell me I only need to follow the "moral law"?
Commandments?
Fully teached, fully lived, not abolished.
Could you show me the verses in Ezekiel 40-48 and Zechariah 14:20-21 that mention "animal sacrifices " ?
We value the shadow that the weekly Sabbath points to, which is the rest to come when Jesus returns and destroys all enemies, and we receive sinless bodies that will never die; bodies that do not war against the Spirit.
We will reign with Him for a thousand years.
The seventh prophetic day.
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 2 Peter 3:8-10
Blessings to you.
Personally I love the Sabbath, beginning at sundown on Friday and all day Saturday.
I have a sense of peace and a longing for that time when I will be with the Desire of my heart; The Desire of the nations… my King.
“For thus says the LORD of hosts: Once more (it is a little while) I will shake heaven and earth, the sea and dry land; and I will shake all nations, and they shall come to the Desire of All Nations, and I will fill this temple with glory,’ says the LORD of hosts.
Haggai 2:6-7
JLB
There are several powerful things going on here in the following passage
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:14-16
In this passage, what was the enmity, the hatred between Jew and Gentile?
It is described here as a wall of separation.
JLB
Last edited:
Ezekiel 45:17-25Could you show me the verses in Ezekiel 40-48 and Zechariah 14:20-21 that mention "animal sacrifices " ?
17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
18 Thus saith the Lord God; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary:
19 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court.
20 And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erreth, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house.
21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.
22 And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering.
23 And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the Lord, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days; and a kid of the goats daily for a sin offering.
24 And he shall prepare a meat offering of an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and an hin of oil for an ephah.
25 In the seventh month, in the fifteenth day of the month, shall he do the like in the feast of the seven days, according to the sin offering, according to the burnt offering, and according to the meat offering, and according to the oil.
Ezekiel 46
Thus saith the Lord God; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
2 And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening.
3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the Lord in the sabbaths and in the new moons.
4 And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the Lord in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.
5 And the meat offering shall be an ephah for a ram, and the meat offering for the lambs as he shall be able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
6 And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish.
7 And he shall prepare a meat offering, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
8 And when the prince shall enter, he shall go in by the way of the porch of that gate, and he shall go forth by the way thereof
9 But when the people of the land shall come before the Lord in the solemn feasts, he that entereth in by the way of the north gate to worship shall go out by the way of the south gate; and he that entereth by the way of the south gate shall go forth by the way of the north gate: he shall not return by the way of the gate whereby he came in, but shall go forth over against it.
10 And the prince in the midst of them, when they go in, shall go in; and when they go forth, shall go forth.
11 And in the feasts and in the solemnities the meat offering shall be an ephah to a bullock, and an ephah to a ram, and to the lambs as he is able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
12 Now when the prince shall prepare a voluntary burnt offering or peace offerings voluntarily unto the Lord, one shall then open him the gate that looketh toward the east, and he shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, as he did on the sabbath day: then he shall go forth; and after his going forth one shall shut the gate.
There are many Laws that could not possibly be followed at this time in history according to the Torah guidelines. animal sacrifices, stoning, priestly commands, because there is no temple, there is no judaic judicial system, there is no alter, no high priest.Could you show me the verses in Ezekiel 40-48 and Zechariah 14:20-21 that mention "animal sacrifices " ?
These things will return as prophesied by Ezekiel, the whole law will be celebrated on Earth once again.
The Law didn't go anywhere according to scriptures.
The RCC played a huge role in paganizing the true faith.
Historians claim early Christians observed the Law's they could observe until around 300.
The RCC changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday in order to appeal to pagan sun worshipers.
Constantine continued worshipping Sol Invictus even after he converted to Christianity. It was not until 323 AD, more than a decade after he received word from God, that he publicly renounced the Unconquered Sun in favor of the crucified Son.
A little history research and you would come to the same truth.
What is most important for us to recognize is how Paul describes the realm or place in which “the law of commandments” existed. It is “in ordinances.” But what is important to recognize is the Greek word Paul uses here. It is the Greek word dogma, and here, in the plural. What is significant about this word is that it is never used in the Septuagint to describe any of God’s commandments, judgments, statutes, or laws as revealed in the written Torah. Rather, in the Lxx, dogma is always used to describe man-made laws, such as the edicts of a king or court (e.g. Esther 4:8; 9:1; Daniel 6:12) -Tim Hegg, Commentary on Ephesians (Tacoma, WA: TorahResource) p. 147
In the New Testament, the word dogma is used twice to refer to Caesar’s decrees (Luke 2:1, Acts 17:7) and once to refer to the apostolic decree established at the Jerusalem council (Acts 16:4). In Colossians 2:14, dogmasin (decrees) is used to refer to the punishment of the Law decreed upon sinners. Throughout both the Septuagint and New Testament, the word dogma is used almost every time “to denote man-made decrees.” The only exception is Colossians 2:14, where God decreed the punishment of the Law upon sinners. Dogma is “never used to describe the commandments of God in the Torah.”
Scholar J.K. McKee gives some additional insight: I would propose that a more correct translation of Ephesians 2:15b, ton nomon tōn entolōn en dogmasin, especially per the context of the dogmas of the dividing wall, would be: “the religious Law of commandments in dogmas.” Nomos is rendered as “law,” but clarified with an italic “religious,” as it would be more akin to man-made religious law than Biblical law […] This law would be more akin to what is described in the opening words of Mishnah tractate Pirkei Avot: “make a fence around the Torah”
The veil of the temple was rent in twain top to bottom . I have a high Priest .
I can not find a reason why .
I've said this many times. The Moral Law is God's creation of Man in His own Image. That is a moral requirement, to live *in God's Image!* Do you get this?
2ndly, the NT teaches that we are, as Christians, under a New Covenant. You have argued that it is not different from the Old Covenant. You are arguing in vain. You have no leg to stand on.
We are under a new and different covenant, and I've shown you that. I quoted you that from Heb 7, and you just continue to try to rationalize it away. You ask for proof, I give it, and you just continue to rationalize it away. Your choice....
Heb 7.11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also....
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
Okay, you've been told and you've been shown it. Now you're responsible to both God and the Scriptures. There is the Moral Law and there is the New Covenant. The New Covenant has fulfilled, superseded, and displaced the Old Covenant, and consists of a Moral Law without the 613 requirements of the Mosaic Law, including Sabbath Law!
Your insistence on keeping both the Law and Sabbath Law is unscriptural and heterodox, in my opinion and in the opinion of many doctirnally-orthodox Christians. You can safely assume that the New Covenant requirements dismiss the need to observe Sabbath Law and all formalities and rituals under the Law of Moses.
That is not true. Jesus gave this assessment of the need to keep the whole Law *while that Covenant was still in play.* But *he would fulfill its mandate,* to provide Eternal Life--not the Law. The eternal testimony of the Law is that...
1) Man is a sinner
2) Man is, without the atonement of Christ, ineligible for Eternal Law
These things will be true as long as the temporal universe continues. Until our resurrection to immortality our status as sinners can only be rectified by appeal to the atonement of Christ.
Mat 5.7 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets by providing the eternal atonement that could not be had by the Law! So Jesus did not perpetuate the Law, but rather, "fulfilled it" by providing an atonement based on a *new covenant,* and not on the Law itself!
Jesus called for attention to every detail of the Law precisely because it required something more than the Law itself could give. It required a New Covenant, and it required Christ's atoning death!
Because God proclaims it.
Because the law was never abolished.
Not until the two witnesses are gone, Heaven and Earth, and ALL The law and prophets are accomplished.
I'm standing on the Earth as I type this.
Jesus called for attention to every aspect of the Law, which required something more than the Law for Eternal Life. It required the atonement of Christ in order to provide Eternal Life. The eternal testimony of the Law, as long as the earth stands, is that sinners cannot be redeemed on an eternal basis, apart from the atonement of Christ.
Jesus called for attention to every requirement of the Law *as long as Christ's atonement was not yet in effect.* It is the *testimony of the Law* that until the universe passes no sinner can be eternally redeemed on the merits of the Law alone. Christ is required for eternal atonement. That is the testimony of the Law of Moses.
There are 2 eternal testimonies.
1) The Law states that no matter how much atonement is offered for Israel, it is utterly unable to remove the need to cover the perpetuation of sin in our lives. That is why the Law had to be enforced as long as the universe continues, because sin always has to be covered!
2) Sin is successfully covered by Christ when he fulfilled the need for an eternal atonement. So the need expressed by the Law for eternal coverage for sin was fulfilled at the Cross, where Christ's atonement made the need to cover sin no longer necessary by ritual. It had been accomplished in history.
Can you please answer the question?
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:14-16
In this passage, what was the enmity, the hatred between Jew and Gentile?
It is described here as a wall of separation.