the security of our salvation

[JLB]

It is a gift. A real gift. No strings attached and nothing due in return.

So we don’t have to obey the Gospel ?

So we don’t need to worry about obeying the truth, walking in the truth or practicing the truth?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Where have I been dishonest?

Right here -

I have. Here it is again:

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep and losing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the grassland and go after the one that was lost until he finds it?
Luke 15:4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 15:4&version=LEB

I see a lot of similarity between this teaching and that of the prodigal son. How much more did the father rejoice at the return of the lost son vs the one that did not go astray?

In all three parables, lost sheep, lost coin, prodigal son, their was great rejoicing when the one who was lost, was found.


I find it interesting that some people can’t admit that in all three cases, the person was lost.

Lost means in need of salvation.


Jesus shows us how we are to go after a brother who is lost, as well as why he is lost.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Where have I been dishonest?

How can Jesus go after lost sheep, if He is seated in heaven, on the right hand of God?



JLB

 

[lisa-in-FL]

So we don’t have to obey the Gospel ?

So we don’t need to worry about obeying the truth, walking in the truth or practicing the truth?


JLB

I never said that and walking in the truth is a sign of true salvation.. same with fruit of the Spirit. But you are saying that as soon as we stray from the path we are I'm danger of falling away from Christ. That's not how it works. The Holy Spirit doesn't drop us like a rock if our flesh wins for a period. Christ's love is unconditional. Salvation is a one time covenant with the believer and God is faithful to us.
I know you are going to snap back with some carefully worded but meaningless response so I'm just gonna say I've said my peace and be done with it.

 

[chessman]

Right here -

Nope. Nothing there dishonest. You must think you’re on the unmoderated site.

How can Jesus go after lost sheep, if He is seated in heaven, on the right hand of God?

I’ve not mentioned Jesus going after lost sheep. Or Jesus returning. Only you have, not me.

 

[JLB]

Where does the parable say anything about a person “watching over” his sheep? LOL it doesn’t. It simply says the sheep (all 100) are His. Oh, and He goes after even the 1 out of His 100 sheep until He finds it.

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


Jesus is asking them and us today, this question -


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?


Notice He is not asking Himself this question.


How would Jesus go and deal with a wayward brother after 33 AD?


Jesus explains -


What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17

1. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

2. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’​

3. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.​

​

​

Here is the instructions Jesus gives to His people about going after those who go astray.



James also says the same thing -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


A brother who wanders from the truth, is a sinner in need of repentance, or he will perish.




JLB

 

[JLB]

But you are saying that as soon as we stray from the path we are I'm danger of falling away from Christ.

Here is what James says. -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20



I don’t see where he said “as soon as”, but he does indicate at the beginning of his letter the process.


Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. James 1:13-15

• when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death

JLB

 

[JLB]

I’ve not mentioned Jesus going after lost sheep. Or Jesus returning. Only you have, not me.

Great so you see the process how wayward brothers who sin can be brought back from being lost.

Great, glad I could help you understand.


Now that you have realized it’s up to people to go after wayward brothers who are lost, do you believe those who are lost are still saved?




JLB

 

[JLB]

Why deviate from the Text? There’s nothing about a shepherd either. It’s the One who owns the 100 sheep “my sheep” that searches for the 1 out of 100 “until He finds it”

Who are you saying the “One” who owns the sheep is, if not Jesus?



JLB

 

[chessman]

Who are you saying the “One” who owns the sheep is, if not Jesus?

Based on the language of the parables:

In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” ...​

But his father said to his slaves, ‘Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet! And bring the fattened calf—kill it and let us eat and celebrate, because this son of mine was dead, and is alive again! He was lost and is found!’ And they began to celebrate. ...​

No domestic slave is able to serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and will despise the other. You are not able to serve God and money.” ...​

And he said to them, “You are the ones who justify themselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts! For what is considered exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.​

Luke 15:10,22-24,16:13,15 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 15:10,22-24,16:13,15&version=LEB

who do you exhalt among men to the ownership of His sheep?

 

[Senior]

I believe salvation includes sanctification,
and this is related to discipleship.
That means we walk as Jesus walked.

How Jesus walked invites a long list ...
beginning with obedience and suffering!
How are we doin' with these two?

 

[Senior]

A further question comes to my mind along this subject. Can we or anyone lose something that we or anyone didn't have in the first place? In other words, can a sheep become lost if it was never part of the fold?

Yes, I read a great explanation of this the other day re:
The lost sheep represents a BAC who has gone astray!
and ...
The prodigal son represents a BAC who has gone astray!

It makes sense that there would be more rejoicing when
a BAC returns ... than ... when an unbeliever comes to believe.
The BAC was "chosen and called" by Father God
before the foundation of the world ...
and was given by the Father to Jesus!
Unbelievers were never chosen and called.
So much for Arminianism.

We were NOT free to choose Jesus before we were chosen.
We are free to choose to co-operate with our salvation process.
(And we are free to NOT choose to co-operate with it.)

 

[JLB]

who do you exhalt among men to the ownership of His sheep?

So your saying God the Father, is the One who goes after the one sheep?


Same question -


How does God the Father come down from heaven and go after lost sheep when He is seated upon the throne in heaven?


Here is what Jesus told His Apostle to do -


16 He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”

He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”

He said to him, “Tend My sheep.”
John 21:16


Did Jesus say this to God the Father or His Apostle?




JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes, I read a great explanation of this the other day ...
The lost sheep represents a BAC who has gone astray!

It makes sense that there would be more rejoicing when
a BAC returns ... than ... when an unbeliever comes to believe.
The BAC was chosen and called by Father God
before the foundation of the world
and was given by the Father to Jesus!
Unbelievers were never chosen and called.
So much for Arminianism.

Do lost people need to be saved?



JLB

 

[Senior]

Do you believe a brother who transgresses the doctrine of Christ, still has Christ?

No, a sister who transgresses the doctrine of Christ,
is involved in habitual unrepentant sin, and etc. ...
is no longer "in Christ" and is under condemnation.
Until sincere repentance is forthcoming!

 

[Senior]

Do lost people need to be saved?

Sorry, I'm confused ...
which rabbit hole did you back down into this time?
Please indicate the Rabbit Hole # ... Thanks.

 

[lisa-in-FL]

No, a sister who transgresses the doctrine of Christ,
is involved in habitual unrepentant sin, and etc. ...
is no longer "in Christ" and is under condemnation.
Until sincere repentance is forthcoming!

The line you quoted from me was actually me quoting JLB.

 

[JLB]

Sorry, I'm confused ...
which rabbit hole did you back down into this time?
Please indicate the Rabbit Hole # ... Thanks.

No need for sarcasm, just a question.



Do lost people need to be saved?







JLB

 

[JLB]

No, a sister who transgresses the doctrine of Christ,
is involved in habitual unrepentant sin, and etc,
is no longer "in Christ" and is under condemnation.
Until sincere repentance is forthcoming!

Amen.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I never said that and walking in the truth is a sign of true salvation.. same with fruit of the Spirit. But you are saying that as soon as we stray from the path we are I'm danger of falling away from Christ. That's not how it works. The Holy Spirit doesn't drop us like a rock if our flesh wins for a period. Christ's love is unconditional. Salvation is a one time covenant with the believer and God is faithful to us.
I know you are going to snap back with some carefully worded but meaningless response so I'm just gonna say I've said my peace and be done with it.

Ok.

Please pray for me, that I will learn how to post things that are not meaningless.


God bless you and keep you.



JLB