the security of our salvation

[ezra]

in the words of kenny rogers the song the gambler .you got to know when to hold them know when to fold know when to walk away ..i had high hopes of this staying on track ..many great post come from this.. you can close this at my request or keep it open. its time for me to walk away .EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US... YES US belong on the cross instead of at the foot of the cross . we deserve eternal damnation but thanks to the finished works of the cross we can be forgiven ==grace thanks to the resurrection we can become the new creation in Christ. WE ALL yes we all could use a trip to the potters wheel to be fashioned by the master loving hand they call that sanctification being made Holy . i am done im not going to sit at a computer desk and discuss "cough" how righteous we are .if not for Christ we would have no righteousness .. have a great day .walking away keep it gong or close it no matte to me..

 

[ezra]

Speaking of love...
1 Corinthians 13:7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

it is easy to become blinded from things that are right in front of our eyes when we refuse to look for them.
Reconcilliation is always possible when one abides in Gods commands.

i have been reconciled and i believe in Reconcilliation . you helped bring new life to the post . it has taken a turn in the wrong direction i am done with it

 

[chessman]

From post # 50 -

Nope. I never mentioned Jesus returning to search.

You are claiming it is Jesus who goes after the lost sheep.

Where? Quote me doing that if it’s true.

If you are truly interested in seeing harmony in this this Forum Community over foundational doctrines, then please refer to what the language of the scriptures say.

I have. Here it is again:

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep and losing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the grassland and go after the one that was lost until he finds it?​

Luke 15:4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 15:4&version=LEB

Based on the language of this passage, is one of His sheep searched for by Him or by His 99 sheep?

Based on the language of this passage, does He search for the 1 out of 100 until He finds it?

 

[stovebolts]

in the words of kenny rogers the song the gambler .you got to know when to hold them know when to fold know when to walk away ..i had high hopes of this staying on track ..many great post come from this.. you can close this at my request or keep it open. its time for me to walk away .EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US... YES US belong on the cross instead of at the foot of the cross . we deserve eternal damnation but thanks to the finished works of the cross we can be forgiven ==grace thanks to the resurrection we can become the new creation in Christ. WE ALL yes we all could use a trip to the potters wheel to be fashioned by the master loving hand they call that sanctification being made Holy . i am done im not going to sit at a computer desk and discuss "cough" how righteous we are .if not for Christ we would have no righteousness .. have a great day .walking away keep it gong or close it no matte to me..

Have a great day, I hope you will spend it with family and loved ones. You have made your point known, and have added richly to this conversation. But if you must go, let your yes be yes, and your no be no.

 

[JLB]

Where? Quote me doing that if it’s true.

Nope. I never mentioned Jesus returning to search.

Post # 46 -

Chessman post: Based on this Scripture, if even one of His sheep were to leave the 99% who remain safely with Him does He go after that 1% “until He finds it”?
Now that’s security!

Who is “Him” and “He” who goes after the sheep refer to?

How can Jesus go after lost sheep, if He is seated in heaven, on the right hand of God’s?


JLB

 

[JLB]

I have. Here it is again:

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep and losing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the grassland and go after the one that was lost until he finds it?Luke 15:4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 15:4&version=LEB

Based on the language of this passage, is one of His sheep searched for by Him or by His 99 sheep?

Neither.


The man who was shepherding the sheep.



JLB

 

[JLB]

in the words of kenny rogers the song the gambler .you got to know when to hold them know when to fold know when to walk away ..i had high hopes of this staying on track ..many great post come from this.. you can close this at my request or keep it open. its time for me to walk away .EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US... YES US belong on the cross instead of at the foot of the cross . we deserve eternal damnation but thanks to the finished works of the cross we can be forgiven ==grace thanks to the resurrection we can become the new creation in Christ. WE ALL yes we all could use a trip to the potters wheel to be fashioned by the master loving hand they call that sanctification being made Holy . i am done im not going to sit at a computer desk and discuss "cough" how righteous we are .if not for Christ we would have no righteousness .. have a great day .walking away keep it gong or close it no matte to me..

Ok.


Have a great day.



JLB

 

[WIP]

what part of being secure in him? ee you have cherry picked what you want " i covered all that " ..so you think grieving the holy spirit will cause you to go to hell? wow you just got what my last post stated WE dont know every thing there is.. i want to congratulate you on I'm not convinced we really understand the Truth.. as a matter fact we Dont Lutheran baptist Methodist Pentecostal reformed Presbyterian or the church of Christ .the list goes on and on .guess what they all believe different when it comes to salvation/baptism the filling of the spirit and or the baptism of the spirit.. it depends on who you ask.... i gave scriptures of promise ..you dont even know what your disagreeing with me on.. i never said once we are saved there is nothing we can do to lose it. -- nor did i say we could lose it ..i said i have no plans on finding out.. what i do know is WE CAN KNOW we have eternal life !...:amen can you agree on that ? . my theology i posted is scripture .. i did not make this post to be popular or to get people on board to agree with me. i m not a ear tickler like jowl olsteen ..stand in front of a camera and smile . yes i stirred a hornets nest paul wrote we are to be stirred up. ..

let me guess you think the moment you sin that is it the end your bound for hell..

You're better off not guessing because most of the time, as is true this time, you will guess wrong.

you dont even know what your disagreeing with me on..

You also need to refrain from making your own assumptions about what others believe. It is not only rude, it is against the ToS 2.4 and for good reason.

This is what I am talking about when I say to give a defense of your hope with gentleness and respect. I hear no gentleness or respect in your replies.

 

[WIP]

I definitely see sanctification as a process.


I don't see that we "lose our salvation", since we will receive the salvation of our soul at the end of our faith, or as an end result of our faith.

I do see see that we can become lost, in which we are no longer reconciled to God, and are as a sinner in need of repentance.

In this state of being lost, we are no longer justified, and must repent, return to God and be restored, of be lost for eternity.


This subject needs to be discussed openly and honestly, with the scriptures that teach us about this subject.

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• Jesus is teaching His disciples, the Church, what to do if one of His sheep should go astray, and how it pleases heaven if they should repent

Matthew goes into more detail about how a person is to be restored, as well as the principle of forgiveness for this restoration to take place.


James also deals with this, and gives us some insight, as well.


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17

1. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

2. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’​

3. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.​

James says it this way -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• A brother who wanders from the truth, is a sinner in need of repentance, or he will perish.

JLB

A further question comes to my mind along this subject. Can we or anyone lose something that we or anyone didn't have in the first place? In other words, can a sheep become lost if it was never part of the fold?

 

[ezra]

it is against the ToS 2.4 and for good reason.

the one written pencil ? it amazes me the admin and us was posting together i said what had to say and i left nothing was said about tos then you post ? makes me wonder stove bolts reply : Have a great day, I hope you will spend it with family and loved ones. You have made your point known, and have added richly to this conversation. But if you must go, let your yes be yes, and your no be no.

 

[chessman]

Post # 46 -

Nope. Nothing about Jesus returning to search in my post #46 either.

Who is “Him” and “He” who goes after the sheep refer to?

The One “having” the 100 sheep, just like the parable says. Nothing about the “church” in the language of this Texts exists.

The man who was shepherding the sheep.

Why deviate from the Text? There’s nothing about a shepherd either. It’s the One who owns the 100 sheep “my sheep” that searches for the 1 out of 100 “until He finds it”

And when he returns to his home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost!’​

Luke 15:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 15:6&version=LEB

 

[JLB]

A further question comes to my mind along this subject. Can we or anyone lose something that we or anyone didn't have in the first place? In other words, can a sheep become lost if it was never part of the fold?

Thank you making a great point.


That’s one of the foundational points to this teaching by Christ.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Nothing about Jesus returning to search in my post #46 either.

Post # 46 -

Chessman post: Based on this Scripture, if even one of His sheep were to leave the 99% who remain safely with Him does He go after that 1% “until He finds it”?
Now that’s security!

Who is “Him” and “He” who goes after the sheep refer to?


Please answer this question from your post number 46.




How can Jesus go after lost sheep, if He is seated in heaven, on the right hand of God’s?




If you can’t even be honest about what you have said, how can we trust you to be honest with what Jesus said?




JLB

 

[JLB]

Why deviate from the Text? There’s nothing about a shepherd either. It’s the One who owns the 100 sheep “my sheep” that searches for the 1 out of 100 “until He finds it”

And when he returns to his home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost!’Luke 15:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 15:6&version=LEB

Nothing about a shepherd?


What do you call a person who watches over his sheep? LOL


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7




JLB

 

[JLB]

It’s the One who owns the 100 sheep “my sheep” that searches for the 1 out of 100 “until He finds it”

Maybe the way Matthew says it will help you see what Jesus is teaching us.


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17

1. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

2. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’​

3. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.​

Same parable that Jesus teaches us in Luke.




JLB

 

[lisa-in-FL]

Please point out in these passages where Jesus comes from heaven and does the searching to find that which is lost
JLB

JLB - This comment and your ongoing posts on the topic are silly. You know that Jesus left the Holy Spirit in his stead after he ascended to the right hand of God. And since they are the part of the Trinity with God, you should be able to discern that what the other posters are saying is that Christ is like the shepherd (like the Psalm says) who looks after each and every one is his own.

and BTW, it is: "transgresses AND does not abide in". This passage is talking about deceivers and antichrists that deny Christ came in the flesh. These are people that aren't saved to begin with.
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John

Do you believe a brother who transgresses the doctrine of Christ, still has Christ?

However, if we as a community are to come to the unity of faith, having a common understanding of the scriptures,
JLB

Brother, a "common understanding" of the scriptures should not be the goal. We should seek after the correct understanding by praying for the Holy Spirit to guide and asking God for wisdom.

 

[lisa-in-FL]

Well, let's give a readable translation a try ...
"So you must remain faithful ... If you do, you will remain
in fellowship with the Son and with the Father. And in this fellowship we enjoy the eternal life he promised us."
(1 John 2:24-25, NLT)
And, voila, no need to discuss it any further.
Gee, I wish everything was as simple as this!

LOL . . readable translation . . and thanks for putting it in bold. makes it so much more readable than that stuffy, out-of-date KJV translation. I'm so glad we live in an age where there is a translation to suit everyone's tastes.


(this is sarcasm in case its not clear).

 

[lisa-in-FL]

I definitely see sanctification as a process.


I don't see that we "lose our salvation", since we will receive the salvation of our soul at the end of our faith, or as an end result of our faith.

I do see see that we can become lost, in which we are no longer reconciled to God, and are as a sinner in need of repentance.

In this state of being lost, we are no longer justified, and must repent, return to God and be restored, of be lost for eternity.

JLB

So . . when you accepted Christ (I won't say "got saved" for your sake), in your mind its basically like getting one of those FREE SUB punch cards from your local sandwich shop. Its got one punch in it so far but lots of empty boxes waiting to be punched. And you go along getting a punch or stamp here and there until finally the day comes when you can get that free sub - provided you don't lost the whole card, of course?

This kind of thinking is why our western culture revolves around earning rewards and especially this time of year Santa Claus. Jesus sees us when we're sleeping and he knows when we're awake, he knows if we've been bad or good and we should be good, but not for "goodness' sake". He's not going to reward us with salvation if we pass all the tests and clean ourselves up enough because we couldn't possibly get there on our own.
It is a gift. A real gift. No strings attached and nothing due in return.
Any righteousness we have is through Christ alone and the gift of Salvation that he created for us on the Cross.
In the garden, it was God who shed the blood to create the covering for Adam and Eve. They didn't and couldn't do anything on their own to earn it or create it themselves. Its been the same Truth from the beginning.

 

[chessman]

If you can’t even be honest about what you have said,

Where have I been dishonest?

What do you call a person who watches over his sheep? LOL

Where does the parable say anything about a person “watching over” his sheep? LOL it doesn’t. It simply says the sheep (all 100) are His. Oh, and He goes after even the 1 out of His 100 sheep until He finds it.

Moreover

more·o·ver
/môrˈōvər/Submit
adverb
as a further matter; besides.

Same parable that Jesus teaches us in Luke.

Maybe it will help you to understand that when Jesus says “moreover” He’s teaching about a further matter.

 

[WIP]

“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17

I see a lot of similarity between this teaching and that of the prodigal son. How much more did the father rejoice at the return of the lost son vs the one that did not go astray?