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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The Significance of the Incarnation of Jesus Christ
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Jesus gives the Faith to believe in Him. He's the author, the cause of the believers Faith Heb 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Our Looking to Him is authored by Him. Also the Faith is looking to Jesus, who came to save His People from their sins, limited atonement Matt 1:21
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Faith knows nothing of a Jesus who died for everybody without exception.
Robert Pate
Member
Everyone is born with the ability to have faith. It is natural human attribute.
Children have faith in their parents. Men and women have faith in their spouses.
Many have faith in others like pastors, politicians, etc.
Saving faith is only given to those that hear and believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.
Robert Pate
Member
No, the statement is in error.
"So then faith comes BY HEARING, and hearing by the word of God (THE GOSPEL) Romans 10:17.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
No Faith is given in Salvation by Jesus Christ, He is the author of it Heb 12:1-2
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Its a result of Him enduring the Cross for them. See He gives Abraham a Spiritual Seed of believers Gal 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Robert Pate
Member
Faith is not imparted to anyone. Faith comes by hearing and believing the Gospel.
"For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" Hebrews 4:2. "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Faith is given in the Newbirth, for its a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 and the Spirit is given by Christ to everyone He died for and redeemed Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith[Christ]
Robert Pate
Member
The Holy Spirit is only given to those that hear and believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.
To be saved you must believe that Jesus atoned for your sins. Ephesians 1:13.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Faith is given in the Newbirth, for its a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 and the Spirit is given by Christ to everyone He died for and redeemed Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith[Christ]
Robert Pate
Member
Faith in Jesus Christ and his Gospel supersedes everything. Nothing happens until we believe.
When we believe God spiritually places us in Christ. When God sees us in Christ it is then that we receive the Holy Spirit.
Here is the order of salvation, Ephesians 1:13.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Christ gives the redeemed the Spirit and along with the Spirit comes Faith. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit
I disagree with those who interpret that Jesus was God in the flesh. The reason is scripture at John 1:14 says the Word became flesh, but see I believe the Word is the only begotten Son of God so when the scripture at John 1:14 says that the Word became flesh I believe it was the only begotten Son who became flesh.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Well what about Jn 1:1 that says the word was God ?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Robert Pate
Member
You didn't say anything about John 1:14, "And the word was MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth" John 1:14.
The Word is the only begotten Son of God, but the Word is also God:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Joh 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (ESV)
Apart from 1:1c, "and the Word was God," there is 1:3. If "without [the Word] nothing was made that has been made," then the only logical conclusion is that the Word is not something that has been made. And since the Word was not something that came into being (which is the literal understanding of the Greek), then we can further conclude that the Word has always existed, which is an attribute of God alone. The Greek of 1:1a--"In the beginning was the Word"--also leaves no room for doubt: when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence, denoting absolute existence, again, an attribute of God alone.
The apostle Paul at 2 Thessalonians 3:2 says, Faith,” “is not a possession of all people.”
Hebrews 11:6 tells us, "Without faith it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him.”
Romans 10:17 say, "Faith follows the thing heard." So the first step toward building faith in God is to ‘hear’ what the Bible really teaches about him. (2 Timothy 3:16) Studying the Bible will help us to find solid answers to important questions.
To many, “faith” simply means having a religious belief or following a form of worship. As used in the Bible, however, “faith” basically means total trust—complete, unshakable confidence in God and his promises. It is a quality that marks a disciple of Jesus Christ.
On one occasion, Jesus Christ spoke about the need to pray and “not to give up.” In so doing, he raised a question about whether true faith would exist at all in our day. He asked: “When the Son of man arrives, will he really find this faith on the earth?” Why did he raise such a question? (Luke 18:1, 8)
Many things can cause people to lose what faith they may have. Among them are the traumas and trials of everyday life. Professor Michael Goulder, for example, was a parish priest in Manchester, England, at the time of the 1958 Munich air disaster in which many of the Manchester United football team were killed. In a BBC television program, announcer Joan Bakewell explained that Goulder “felt helpless before the scale of people’s grief.” One result was that he “lost his faith in a God who intervenes in human destiny.” Goulder stated his belief that “the Bible isn’t . . . the inerrant word of God” but, rather, “the errant word of man, perhaps with some divine inspiration here and there.”
Sometimes faith just withers away. That was what happened in the case of writer and broadcaster Ludovic Kennedy. He says that from childhood his “doubts and uncertainties ,about God, went to and fro and his disbeliefs grew.” No one, it seems, could give him reasonable answers to his questions. His father’s death at sea was a serious blow to what was already a very weak faith. Prayers to God to “preserve us from the dangers of the sea and from the violence of the enemy” went unanswered as the converted passenger liner his father was on was attacked and destroyed by German battleships during World War II.(All in the Mind—A Farewell to God)
Your faith must be based on evidence that you observe as you weigh the truthfulness of what you read in the Bible. In that way, you will follow the example of first-century students who “accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.” (Acts 17:11)
I believe, "The beginning” at John 1:1 refers to the time when God began his creative work and produced the Word, who I believe is the only begotten Son of God. Thereafter, the Word was used by God in the creation of all other things. (John 1:2,3) The Bible states that Jesus is “the firstborn of all creation” and that “by means of him all other things were created.” (Colossians 1:15, 16)It also states at Revelation 3:14 that Jesus is the beginning of God's creation.
I agree that nothing could have been made without the only begotten Son of God who is the Word, but I disagree with someone saying that the Word, didn't have a beginning. The fact that the scriptures show that the only begotten Son of God is firstborn of creation and the beginning of creation teaches me that the scripture at John 1:14 is very proof to me that it was the only begotten Son of God sho became flesh, not God. To me saying it was God who became flesh\human is denying it was the only begotten Son of God who became flesh\human. I believe God actually sent his only begotten Son to the world of mankind.
The Four Gospels, A New Translation, by Professor Charles Cutler Torrey (2nd edition 1947), says: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god. When he was in the beginning with God all things were created through him; without him came no created thing into being.” (John 1:1-3) Note that what the Word is said to be god without a capital initial letter, namely, “god," not "God."
This Word, or Logos was God’s only direct creation, the only-begotten son of God, and evidently the close associate of God to whom God was speaking when he said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” (Genesis 1:26)
Other scriptures plainly show that the Word was God’s agent through whom all other things came into existence. There is “one God the Father, out of whom all things are, . . . and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are.” (1 Corinthians 8:6)
There's just too many scriptures that show that Jesus Christ was and is God's only begotten Son not God himself or God in the flesh.
The beginning is the time when God began his creative work, but the Greek is such that when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence.
But that would be to read into the text something that isn't there, namely, the idea of "other" things. First, John 1:3 says "Through him all things were made." That simply means what it says, "all things." Then, the text is fairly emphatic, repeating the idea in a different way: "without him nothing was made that has been made."
So, not only is "other" not in the Greek text, the idea itself is precluded by the Greek of verse 1.
Context is the most important determiner of meaning.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (ESV)
From the context, we can see that "firstborn" cannot mean that the Son was created at some point in time. Again, we see that "by him all things were created," "all things were created through him and for him," and "he is before all things." The repetition is meaningful, emphatically making the point. And, again, just like in John 1:3, there is no "other" in the Greek text. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that Jesus (or the Son) cannot be something that was created, something that did not exist at one point, or verses 16 and 17 are false. It would also mean that John 1:1, 3 are also false.
So, how are we to understand "firstborn" at it relates to the Son? It is used in several places in the Bible to metaphorically denote the preeminence of a firstborn son:
Psa 89:27 And I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth. (ESV)
Psalms 89:27 is a messianic Psalm where God says of David, "I will make him the firstborn." Here, firstborn clearly means that God will put him in a position of preeminence, "the highest of the kings of the earth." David is here the prototype of the coming Messiah, the "firstborn," and has nothing to do with David's being born or coming into being. This is almost certainly what Paul had in mind, and we see something similar in Romans:
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. (ESV)
Here is means the same--that Jesus would be the head of all believers.
In relation to the Son then, we can understand that Col. 1:15 is speaking of Jesus's place of preeminence, his sovereignty, and his lordship, over all creation.
Rev 3:14 simply means the beginner or author of God's creation. This is supported by John 1:1-3 and Col 1:16-17.
Rev 1:17 and 2:8 have already referred to Jesus as "the first and the last." This is repeated in Rev 22:13, where he is also called "the Alpha and the Omega" and "the beginning and the end." That is not only one clue as to what "beginning" means as it refers to Jesus, it is also the same language God uses of himself in Rev 1:6 ("I am the Alpha and the Omega"). Note also that these titles God uses of himself in Isaiah:
Isa 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. (ESV)
Isa 48:12 “Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called! I am he; I am the first, and I am the last. (ESV)
That is blasphemous of Jesus if he isn't also God in the truest sense.
You can disagree, but the Greek construction doesn't allow for the Word to have had a beginning.
God did send his Son, I am not denying that, but the Son is also in nature God. A son is never of a different nature than his father. And if that nature is deity, then the Son must also be deity, which has as a necessary attribute, eternal preexistence.
Except that God says numerous times that there is no other god. Judaism, and Christianity, as the continuing story, are both strictly monotheist. The Bible affirms this repeatedly. I already posted Isa 44:6 to make one point, but I'll post it again to make another:
Isa 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. (ESV)
God says there is no god, so any translation that says, in John 1:1, "god" or "a god" is just incorrect. Just to be sure, we also have:
Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.
Isa 44:8 Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any."
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me,
Isa 45:6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.
Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other.
Isa 45:21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
Isa 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
Isa 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,
(All ESV)
If God himself says there is no other god, then there is no other god. Ever (Isa 43:10).
As I have pointed out, the Greek doesn't allow for the Logos to have been created and God himself says there is no other god and never will be. So, when God says "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness," it can only refer to God himself. And this is exactly what we see in Gen 1:27:
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (ESV)
These two verses and all that I have so far given, are precisely why the doctrine of the Trinity best takes into account all that Scripture reveals about the nature and being of God.
There are at least three things to take into account with 1 Cor 8:6. Firstly, it strongly appears to be Paul's expansion on the Shema. Note the similarity of language:
Deu 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (ESV)
1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (ESV)
That is supported by verse 4. Secondly, the context shows that Paul is contrasting the many "so-called gods" and "lords" with the one God and the one Lord. Thirdly, if we exclude Jesus, the Son, from being God, then we must necessarily exclude the Father from being Lord. But that would contradict what Paul has written elsewhere, such as 1 Tim 6:15.
Fourthly, and perhaps most importantly, we see the repeat of John 1:3 and Col 1:16-17. If "from whom are all things" refers to the eternal preexistence of the Father, then "through whom are all things" refers to the eternal preexistence of the Son. We cannot say that in reference to the Father it means eternal preexistence but doesn't when it refers to the Son. That would be inconsistent.
And none of them mean that Jesus wasn't also truly God (yet not the Father).
Well after Jesus was resurrected from the dead, John 20:17 shows that Jesus had a Father and God that was his apostles and disciples Father and God so you and I are going to disagree. I'm not going to argue about it.