The Story of the Rich Young Ruler - Are We Hypocrites?

[bibleberean]

Yes, Gary, it does make sense to me.

Bibleberean, conservatism and liberalism mind-sets, or a certain politcial party, should not be setting the standard of a Christian's conduct. The Bible does that. We can start a business, and employ people, and practice ingenuity through hard work, but it's what we do with the profits that counts. The Bible speaks of where our treasures should be laid up. The man you worked for sounds like he is very generous, and loves the Lord a great deal, I don't doubt that. And certainly it is a witness of Christ's love, to you his employee, and probably many other's. I do not think it is a socialist idea to look inside ourselves and ask if Christ wants us to do more to help others. I think the church should be at the forefront of charitiable acts. We should be feeding, sheltering, educating, the poor, the widows, the orphans. We should be showing hospitality in our homes. If I have a single mother over just once a week for a meal...it helps her. If I deliver a meal to an older person who is unable to get out...it helps. If I watch the children of a young couple, who can't afford childcare, to give them time together, and the mother a much needed break from the hard task of raising young children, it helps.

As I said in my first post, it took me becoming a widow, and losing most of our "things" before I realized that what we need is what is important, and that is what God will supply. God has done that, through our own hard work, through the provision of my husband, and the generosity of our church, other home educating families, the HSLDA, neighbors, and family.

I imagine that we all could easily look inside ourselves everyday and find a way to be more Christ like, more generous. I think helping at the local level first, and then, at the global level. I think by being good stewards with our money is part of it too. We can not just assume that because we will never completely get rid of poverty that we shouldn't try. Evil is present, but we do not let that defeat us. And even if we can help only one family, one child, one elderly person...it is the act of love that matters. When we feed the poor, heal the sick, educate the illiterate, we are able to show Christ's love, and share His message. The gist of the parable is that nothing comes before Christ to the Christian, not politics, not money, not family, etc. The rich young ruler was doing so many things right, but he walked away sad because he knew that his money, and probably status, were his god. He desired to do acts of love for Christ, but the price was too high. Nothing should be so costly that we can't immediately walk away from for the sake of Christ. We must be given over to God's will for us in all matters.

Cheerful giving is a great thing for us to do as I have stated in each of my posts.

Giving away all that we have to help others and leaving ourselves impoverished so that we ourselves become charity cases is not only not wise it is down right stupid.

I agree with you that we should do good.

But our focus is saving souls not feeding the world. If we see a brother in need we should help him.

My wealthy boss is a good example of what wisdom with the riches God has blessed us with can do.

Saving the world is not my mission.

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Being a flaming socialist dictator is also not my mission.

Preach the word.

What do you think about these words of Paul?

2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

To the world saviours I say eat your own bread and I will eat mine. I will share my bread as I see fit.

God bless you and do all the good you see fit.

I have not once disagreed with that.

I am driving to Arizona to visit my son's and grand kids in June. On the way I will be staying at some fine Hotels and eating out in some fine restaurants.

We will treat our kids and grand children to meals out. We will do it without guilt.

I will be bringing bible tracts to distribute with me everywhere I go.

I will witness and preach the gospel as much as possible.

I find the stench of liberalism to be quite sickening.

If these folks who see fit to give away all they have would just do it and shut up it would be a blessing to me.

If I see them on street suffering in poverty I will be more than happy to buy them some clothes at good will and treat them to a meal at Mickey Dees.

I am going to have a blast on my two week vacation. I am not going to fret about what I could have done to create the liberal Utopia with the money I spend.
;-)

In His service,

Robert W. Hurzeler

 

[Gary]

I imagine that we all could easily look inside ourselves everyday and find a way to be more Christ like, more generous. (Gary: I agree) I think helping at the local level first, and then, at the global level. (Gary: I totally agree) I think by being good stewards with our money is part of it too. (Gary: Again, I agree) We can not just assume that because we will never completely get rid of poverty that we shouldn't try. Evil is present, but we do not let that defeat us.

And even if we can help only one family, one child, one elderly person...it is the act of love that matters. (Gary: Amen) When we feed the poor, heal the sick, educate the illiterate, we are able to show Christ's love, and share His message. (Gary: Exactly my point previously)

The gist of the parable is that nothing comes before Christ to the Christian, not politics, not money, not family, etc. The rich young ruler was doing so many things right, but he walked away sad because he knew that his money, and probably status, were his god. (Gary: Good analysis) He desired to do acts of love for Christ, but the price was too high. Nothing should be so costly that we can't immediately walk away from for the sake of Christ. (Gary: He is our Lord and Savior) We must be given over to God's will for us in all matters. (Gary: We are slaves of our Lord, bought at a precious price)

Thanks!

Kind regards
Gary

 

[bibleberean]

It is amazing every church I have ever gone to collects money for churches in need and already make a huge impact.

I didn't know that had anything to do with giving away "everything but the basics".

How could the "richer churches" help the poorer if there wasn't anyone with possessions?

It is quite amusing to me to see the great lengths people will go to prove how giving and righteous they are but can't seem to practice what they preach.

It seems the focus is more on telling people that spend their time and energy giving and preaching the gospel that it is not enough and that they should be wearing rags, walking instead of driving and living in tents instead of homes.

Of course these same folks have computers cars, several changes of clothes etc.


They need to "Practice what they preach".

The question this thread should have started out with is "am I a hypocrite" not are "we hypocrites".

They can save the world. I am going to focus on saving souls.


Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

 

[Gary]

More contradictions

God bless you and do all the good you see fit.
I have not once disagreed with that.

vs.

I think a person that is "guilt ridden" by what he or she considers too much wealth would do better to practice what they preached then to try to draw others into their pitiful plight.

vs.

The problem with hypocrites is that they want us to use our money to help the poor and are very critical of us.

vs

I am 55 years old and in this country I have never seen a person starving to death. I have never witnessed a person who was forced to walk the streets naked because they had no clothes.

I guess we see needy people through very different eyes! Lord help us! If you are a pastor, I pity the poor and hungry around your "church." I have met many Muslims with more compassion than you.

"This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything." (1 John 3:16-20)

:-?

:-?

The rich get richer

"That companies are making money and still can't pay a living wage seems obscene," said Karen Nussbaum, a director with the AFL-CIO. "(Corporations) will say they have to suppress wages to provide low-cost consumer products and services, but they don't tell you about the unbelievable profits they enjoy and the huge paychecks being reaped at the top."

Source: - here -

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[Drew]

Giving away all that we have to help others and leaving ourselves impoverished so that we ourselves become charity cases is not only not wise it is down right stupid.

It is easy to try to score points by distorting what your opponent (in debate) has said into something obviously silly and then point to that silly distortion (which does not represent the opponent's position) and cry "aha!" That this has been done here is obvious. I do not think that I (or anyone else) has suggested giving beyond the point of "bare essentials" living to the point where we need the charity of others. Maybe, this is what we are called to do, but I have not gone there yet.

One more time: My earning potential as, say, a software engineer is not degraded if I gave all my luxuries away today. I would still make my $ 100,000 next year (a fantasy salary, I assure you). My inherent capability to generate wealth and thereby support the poor is determined by my knowledge, skills, ambition, and marketability. Somehow it is being argued that if I give away my luxuries, I suddenly becoming impotent in respect to generating wealth. This is just not correct. Exception: If I can invest my money in myself (e.g through more education) to improve my wealth generation capability, that would be another story.

Although it is a bit of a digression, I am curious as to why you (BB) think that "over the top" rhetoric is a constructive component of this debate. In this and other threads, you have used the following terms:

"downright stupid"
"flaming socialist dictator"
"find the stench of liberalism to be quite sickening"
"frauds"
"hypocrites"
"sick to the stomach"
"absolutely gags me "
"fools"

Obviously, I am taking issue with this approach of yours, I won't deny it. But, I am genuinely curious what you think this accomplishes. Do you feel this is a "I call them as I see them" kind of honesty on your part?

I would take the position that our world has become one where appeals to emotionally charged indignation have largely replaced sober, rational discourse. Emotion has its place I suppose, but not when it involves lathering people with all kinds of labels that make it easy for others to see them as some kind of highly caricaturized enemy. The use of the term "liberal" comes to mind in this regard.

 

[Gary]

How could the "richer churches" help the poorer if there wasn't anyone with possessions?

I never said that "rich" churches needed to give away all. Don't misquote me. I said:

• The Biblical model I refer to is when churches with much support churches with little. i.e. a church in a well-to-do suburb can reach out to another church in a poorer area and uplift that church (the brothers and sisters in the church) and help them, in turn, reach out to the poor who live in that poorer area. That help can be in many ways but a prime way is via money!
  
  It works! It is Biblical. It uplifts the local church in the poor area; it fosters a spirit of co-operation and accountability, Christian to Christian, and it enables the local church to minister to its own people with additional resources.
  
  References: The Collection for God's People 1 Corinthians 16:1-4
  
  

  Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem. If it seems advisable for me to go also, they will accompany me.

It is quite amusing to me to see the great lengths people will go to prove how giving and righteous they are but can't seem to practice what they preach.

Really? So do you know what I give? How do you know what my church gives to the poor, the widows, the orphans?

It seems the focus is more on telling people that spend their time and energy giving and preaching the gospel that it is not enough and that they should be wearing rags, walking instead of driving and living in tents instead of homes.

Again you build a straw man. I have never said anything like this. Please stop your deliberate lies.

 

[bibleberean]

IN every church I have ever gone to there has been money set aside for those in need. The people in need were not starving to death. They were not naked. They needed help.

We helped them and did not ask them to pay it back.

We have helpled homeless people get jobs.

I truly have never seen starvation or nakedness in this country and I am 55 years old.

Sorry,

I don't buy your communist philosophy that all the problems of the world could be solved by redistributing wealth.

No comrade... History and the observable evidence prove that there will be no justice and no Utopia until Christ comes.

Psalms 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Psalms 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psalms 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

It is Jesus that will bring the righteousness and the peace we seek. Until then the bible is clear there will be wars and famines.

We can all do what we can but the main funtion of the church is the gospel and saving souls.

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

It is Jesus that will bring in peace...

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

No peace till He comes...

 

[ErikSalaan]

Here's a story for you:

God will kill you if you don't give up your worldly possessions! Read Acts 5:1-10 You can't keep any money from selling everything! Give up your possessions before you "give up the ghost"! I'm surprised all of us are even alive today! Maybe God's waiting list for death is on back order? Pray for Forgiveness!

1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
7And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
8And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
9Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
10Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

 

[bibleberean]

Here's a story for you:

God will kill you if you don't give up your worldly possessions! Read Acts 5:1-10 You can't keep any money from selling everything! Give up your possessions before you "give up the ghost"! I'm surprised all of us are even alive today! Maybe God's waiting list for death is on back order? Pray for Forgiveness!

1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
7And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
8And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
9Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
10Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

You missed the point...

3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?

He was not struck dead because he didn't give up all that he had.

He was struck dead because he lied to the Holy Ghost....

The land and the money were his to do with as he pleased.

I know that is hard for Socialists to understand but that is what the passage clearly states.

 

[Gary]

"Who is my neighbor?" asked the expert in the law...

IN every church I have ever gone to there has been money set aside for those in need. The people in need were not starving to death. They were not naked. They needed help.

We helped them and did not ask them to pay it back.

We have helpled homeless people get jobs.

I truly have never seen starvation or nakedness in this country and I am 55 years old.

You are lucky. I will send you a few pictures and then you can see how some of your neighbors live. Then you will have seen people who live less than a day's travel away..... and they are dying of starvation, disease. Many are orphans. Many have less than a shirt and a pair of pants against the winter cold.

It is interesting that the "expert" in the law also tried to narrow down the definition of "neighbor." Luke 10:25-37. Jesus challenged his view.

Do you not see hurting and dying and injured and starving people EVERY day on your TV? Do you also pass them by, change channel...... like the priest and the Levite?

:-?

 

[bibleberean]

"Who is my neighbor?" asked the expert in the law...

IN every church I have ever gone to there has been money set aside for those in need. The people in need were not starving to death. They were not naked. They needed help.

We helped them and did not ask them to pay it back.

We have helpled homeless people get jobs.

I truly have never seen starvation or nakedness in this country and I am 55 years old.

You are lucky. I will send you a few pictures and then you can see how some of your neighbors live. Then you will have seen people who live less than a day's travel away..... and they are dying of starvation, disease. Many are orphans. Many have less than a shirt and a pair of pants against the winter cold.

It is interesting that the "expert" in the law also tried to narrow down the definition of "neighbor." Luke 10:25-37. Jesus challenged his view.

Do you not see hurting and dying and injured and starving people EVERY day on your TV? Do you also pass them by, change channel...... like the priest and the Levite?

:-?

Sorry, I live in Oregon not in South Africa...

Also it is none of your business if I give or don't give to foreign missions.

Matthew 6:2-4 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

But brother be it far from me to stop you from sounding your own trumpet...
:D

 

[bibleberean]

I will be back in an hour or so.

God bless,

Robert

 

[destiny]

This thread makes me sick.

It has done nothing but breed division, selfrighteousness, judgmentalism, and fingerpointing between those who should be brothers.

I wonder if God hates that worse than someone trying to get into anothers personal business of giving, must be a close race.

Doesn't the bible say to give in secret? Some of you seem to like shouting your righteous compassionate deeds and biblical knowledge on the subject from the roof top.


Matthew 6
6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. (6:1-3) "Do not sound a trumpet"
Don't brag about the good things that you do.
Should we let others see our good works?
6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

I'm so glad that I am not accountable man!

 

[Gary]

http://www.carm.org/diff/Matt5_16.htm

I have found Drew's challenge very stimulating. When the Spirit convicts, He obviously causes division. Truth and falsehood are like night and day.... they do not unite people.

I think Drew and several others here (lovely and Soma for instance) have taken the challenge and considered Drew's comments about the parable. Historically, Christians have also done the same.... and struggled as well. We don't like to contemplate the ramifications of Jesus' words. Our modern material wealth makes it very hard for that camel to get through the eye of that needle.

A very good book on the Biblical theology of possessions is:

• 
  
  
  
  
  
  Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread. (Proverbs 30:8)
  
  One of the most difficult questions facing Christians today is that of the proper attitude toward possessions. In wealthy nations such as Britain and the USA, individuals accumulate much and yet are daily exposed to the plight of the poor, whether the homeless on their own city streets or starving children on their TV screens. What action should we take on behalf of the poor? What should we do with our own possessions?
  
  In Neither Poverty nor Riches Craig Blomberg asks what the Bible has to say about these issues. Avoiding easy answers, he instead seeks a comprehensive biblical theology of possessions. And so he begins with the groundwork laid by the Old Testament and the ideas developed in the intertestamental period, then draws out what the whole New Testament has to say on the subject, and finally offers conclusions and applications relevant to our contemporary world.
  
  Neither Poverty Nor Riches is one book that all should read who are concerned with issues of poverty and wealth.

http://ivpress.gospelcom.net/cgi-ivpres ... /code=2607

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[Drew]

This thread makes me sick.

It has done nothing but breed division, selfrighteousness, judgmentalism, and fingerpointing between those who should be brothers.

I wonder if God hates that worse than someone trying to get into anothers personal business of giving, must be a close race.

Doesn't the bible say to give in secret? Some of you seem to like shouting your oh so righteous compassionate deeds and biblical knowledge on the subject from the roof top.


Matthew 6
6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. (6:1-3) "Do not sound a trumpet"
Don't brag about the good things that you do.
Should we let others see our good works?
6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

I'm so glad that I am not accountable man!

Let's suppose that the thread was about consuming pornography. Let's suppose that we did not agree on the Biblical position on the matter. Let's say I think that pornography is OK for a Christian to consume but you don't.

Could I legitimately complain that the thread sickens me because you, Destiny, are engaging in "selfrighteousness, judgmentalism, and fingerpointing" about my consumption of pornography? "Of course not" you will say, the Biblical position is clear on this matter. Well, this is precisely what I am saying about the "radical giving" issue.

Taking a position that you do not agree with is simply not being self-righteous, it is engaging in serious (at least sometimes) debate about an important issue.

Again and again people have engaged in the argument that this is someone's private business. Well let's see where that leads with the pornography issue....Need I say more?

The very matter at issue is whether this is aggressive form of giving is an option or not. You have reached your conclusion and it is what it is. Using your reasoning, I could argue that anyone who publically declares their objections to pornography would be "shouting their oh so righteous objections to pornogrpahy from the roof top."

Now you may object that in the specific case of giving we are explicitly told to do so in secret. I will go along with that. But there is an important conceptual difference between debating the givings issue in a general principled sense and announcing that I, Drew, have given so many $$$ to such and such. Clearly, Jesus admonition cannot mean that discussions of the subject of giving are to be carried on in secret.

What I find disheartening about this thread is the absence of a direct frontal assault on the arguments that I and others have made. Perhaps this is asking too much. But I don't believe anyone has engaged the "pro-vow of poverty" argument in the terms that it has been expressed - opponents have "argued past' the topic, by making accusations of self-righteousness or vague statements about it being a "personal matter" when even the simplest logic would indicate how such an approach would fly, say, in respect to divorce or pornography (for example).

And now, for the umpteenth time, I point the finger squarely at myself. And note: if members of the body cannot question our collective Christian culture without being labelled as self-righteous, how can we make any progress at all?

 

[destiny]

What I find disheartening about this thread is the absence of a direct frontal assault on the arguments that I and others have made.

I think that already happened earlier in this thread to some extent.
You seemed to misread my post Drew, I wan't taking a position against the subject in general here, but against those who are using their position to judge others.
This has gone beyond a debate on the biblical stance on giving, it has become a, "you should be doing this this and this, because I see this that and the other that you should be doing" thread.
THAT is my problem with the turn this subject has taken, not the orginal intent of the topic.

 

[bibleberean]

This thread is about judging those who have more than others and then telling them that they need to give up all they have and give it all to the poor in order to be good Christians.

That is what this thread is about.

I think it is abundantly clear that we don't have to give up driving our cars or wearing a Rolex to help others.

This thread has turned into an attack on those who have more than others and demanding that they give up their wealth.

It has been clearly demonstrated biblicallyand logically that reducing everyone to a state of poverty won't work to alleviate world poverty. It will make it worse.

Have a splendid day...

 

[Gary]

This thread is about judging those who have more than others and then telling them that they need to give up all they have and give it all to the poor in order to be good Christians.

False. No such claim has been made by anyone.

This thread has turned into an attack on those who have more than others and demanding that they give up their wealth.

Who has demanded you give up your wealth? That should be a fairly easy accusation to substantiate.

It has been clearly demonstrated biblically and logically that reducing everyone to a state of poverty won't work to alleviate world poverty. It will make it worse.

No such suggestion to "reduce everyone to a state of poverty" has been suggested by anyone on this thread. Again, your statement is false.

:wink:

Anyway, the exact opposite of what you claim has been shown.

Global Priority of spending in 1998 in $U.S. Billions

Basic education for everyone in the world = 6 $U.S. Billions
Cosmetics in the United States = 8 $U.S. Billions
Water and sanitation for everyone in the world = 9 $U.S. Billions
Ice cream in Europe = 11 $U.S. Billions
Reproductive health for all women in the world = 12 $U.S. Billions
Perfumes in Europe and the United States = 12 $U.S. Billions
Basic health and nutrition for everyone in the world = 13 $U.S. Billions
Pet foods in Europe and the United States = 17 $U.S. Billions
Business entertainment in Japan = 35 $U.S. Billions
Cigarettes in Europe = 50 $U.S. Billions
Alcoholic drinks in Europe = 105 $U.S. Billions
Narcotics drugs in the world = 400 $U.S. Billions
Military spending in the world = 780 $U.S. Billions

:o

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Facts.asp

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[destiny]

I think Drew and several others here (lovely and Soma for instance) have taken the challenge and considered Drew's comments about the parable.

Oh and noone else has? I noticed you quoted and embolded everything lovely said that was in agreement with you.
How humble Gary.

 

[Gary]

If you disagree with "lovely", why not hightlight where you disagree with her. Simple.