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The threat of Eternal Punishment for accepting the Mark implies less than eternal punishment exists for lesser sins

I expected nothing less from someone who can deny the rapture plainly taught in 1 Thessalonians because their presence implies the rapture happened precisely as prophesied.
I suggest studying that passage more and having a little more humility, as there is at least one other solid understanding of that passage which has nothing to do with a rapture, as it’s based on a cultural context.


If you could answer without destroying your argument, you would have done so.

Evading the issue doesn't do your case any good at all.

Christ said to the Sheep "these my brethren" proving they were there, in the audience if not seated with Christ. But other scriptures revealing the Church will be judges also, implies they were seated with Christ as He spoke.

Christ repeats they are there in the audience to the Goats:
"Then He will answer them, saying,`Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' (Matt. 25:45 NKJ)

You evade that point because it devastates your position. Don't blame me for your unwillingness to answer. I have been generous with your evasions of the issue.

Everyone is witness to that. No one is fooled.
You really shouldn’t try and play this game with me. Let’s look more closely at your claims in the above quote.

You first stated HERE:

‘Christ pointed to "these my brethren", which proves they were seated with Christ judging the Sheep and Goats:

"And the King will answer and say to them,`Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.' (Matt. 25:40 NKJ)’

I responded with these “two” questions HERE:

‘Where, exactly, does it say that these believers "were seated with Christ judging the Sheep and Goats"? Where is that in the context?‘

And then added additional context to consider:

‘Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. (ESV)

First, Jesus "will sit on his glorious throne." It is the only throne mentioned in the passage and he is the only one said to be sitting on that throne. Second, "he will separate people one from another . . . the sheep from the goats." The sheep are the believers. So, there are believers of all sorts before him. Those to whom he is referring are those believers who helped the "the least of" the believers, showing the mercy, kindness, and compassion that he showed.’

And repeated my question:

‘Again, where in Matt 25:31-46 is it stated that there are believers either seated with Jesus on his throne or seated alongside him on their own thrones?’

You responded HERE, but notice the three things you did:

‘If you ignore the scriptures I cite, there is no point to our conversation. I cited the precise text where Christ POINTS to people with Him, and says "these my brethren"

"And the King will answer and say to them,`Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.' (Matt. 25:40 NKJ)

Christians are Christ's brethren:’

First, you claimed I ignored the scripture you posted, when in that very post, you quoted my clear response to that scripture. So, you falsely said I ignored the scripture you posted. That’s issue one.

Second, you initially said ‘Christ pointed to "these my brethren", which proves they were seated with Christ judging the Sheep and Goats.’ So, I asked, ‘where in Matt 25:31-46 is it stated that there are believers either seated with Jesus on his throne or seated alongside him on their own thrones?’ However, instead of answering, you purposely imply that I was asking something different by saying ‘I cited the precise text where Christ POINTS to people with Him, and says "these my brethren".’ I suspect you did that to make it (deceptively) appear that you are answering what I asked. And you still haven’t answered that question despite me repeatedly pointing that out. That’s issue two.

Third, implied in your response is the question you have since kept repeating, despite me saying I have answered it and even have you two posts in which I show that I did. The question you have taken to repeating, in red and increasingly larger font size, is, ‘So was Jesus mistaken when He said "these my brethren", the brethren weren't there?‘. However, in my post #30, which I quote above and which you quoted when you falsely said I didn’t reply to your scripture, I stated that ‘The sheep are the believers. So, there are believers of all sorts before him. Those to whom he is referring are those believers who helped the "the least of" the believers, showing the mercy, kindness, and compassion that he showed.’ Not reading my response and seeing that I already addressed your question, is issue three. Of course, your question is based on your deceptive change in what I was asking, as shown in issue two.


So, have I evaded anything? Not at all; I have clearly addressed everything. Have you addressed everything? No, because you purposely made it look like I was asking something I wasn’t. And that was after falsely accusing me of ignoring the scripture you posted. You then followed all that up with repeatedly asking a question, which I repeatedly stated I answered, and even gave the post references.

Basically, you said I was ignoring context, but when I asked you about what you had stated was in the context, namely, that ‘Christ pointed to "these my brethren", which proves they were seated with Christ judging the Sheep and Goats,’ was when you deceptively changed what I was asking. And so here we are.
 
Again, where in Matt 25:31-46 is it stated that there are believers either seated with Jesus on his throne or seated alongside him on their own thrones?’
Hello Free.
It's both. The misunderstanding comes from how Christ ruled in love, compassion and merciful patience in correction over all Israel
during His public ministry on earth.

Once we see how He conquered death doing this...the rest falls into place.

The saints are seated with Christ? Yes, now in heavenly places, our minds understanding His will concerning His creation.

They saints rule with Christ? Yes, now
as His ambassadors. Spokesmen for the King of creation is an honor and scary serious.

The saints come with Christ? They have to since they're following Him now.

The saints are first alive with Christ? Yes, now because Jesus showed this His power over any enemy to all mankind.

Also, being rewarded with a position of "authority over the nations" after Jesus returns shows what? It shows those who are about to be damned that God was was ruling in the most compassionate way over the lost all along.

The idea that our Savior will return to give the faithful iron rods to smash people in the head with is insane. That's the kind of thinking that led James and John to ask if they should call fire down.
Unbelievers are already under condemnation, so being judged by a believer is nothing more that a believer shaking the dust off. But until then, we must proclaim the gospel in both word and deed with the hope of some turning to God.
 
Hello Free.
It's both. The misunderstanding comes from how Christ ruled in love, compassion and merciful patience in correction over all Israel
during His public ministry on earth.

Once we see how He conquered death doing this...the rest falls into place.

The saints are seated with Christ? Yes, now in heavenly places, our minds understanding His will concerning His creation.

They saints rule with Christ? Yes, now
as His ambassadors. Spokesmen for the King of creation is an honor and scary serious.

The saints come with Christ? They have to since they're following Him now.

The saints are first alive with Christ? Yes, now because Jesus showed this His power over any enemy to all mankind.

Also, being rewarded with a position of "authority over the nations" after Jesus returns shows what? It shows those who are about to be damned that God was was ruling in the most compassionate way over the lost all along.

The idea that our Savior will return to give the faithful iron rods to smash people in the head with is insane. That's the kind of thinking that led James and John to ask if they should call fire down.
Unbelievers are already under condemnation, so being judged by a believer is nothing more that a believer shaking the dust off. But until then, we must proclaim the gospel in both word and deed with the hope of some turning to God.
Okay, but what does any of that have to do with Matt 25:31-46, which is the final judgement where every single person is judged by Christ?
 
Okay, but what does any of that have to do with Matt 25:31-46, which is the final judgement where every single person is judged by Christ?
It has to do with dispelling any false teaching that our Savior is returning to re-teach the gospel to anyone.
Orthodox Judaism believes the Messiah will destroy their enemies and teach both Jews and gentiles about God and all Jews and gentiles will be at peace.
They deny it was Jesus, but the Messiah made it clear the sheep and goats are really being divided now.
NT commentaries teach the heresy that when Christ returns, He will continue teaching unsaved people about God for 1000 more years.
 
Alfred Persson
‘If you ignore the scriptures I cite, there is no point to our conversation. I cited the precise text where Christ POINTS to people with Him, and says "these my brethren"

"And the King will answer and say to them,`Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.' (Matt. 25:40 NKJ)

Christians are Christ's brethren:’

Free
First, you claimed I ignored the scripture you posted, when in that very post, you quoted my clear response to that scripture. So, you falsely said I ignored the scripture you posted. That’s issue one.

Second, you initially said ‘Christ pointed to "these my brethren", which proves they were seated with Christ judging the Sheep and Goats.’ So, I asked, ‘where in Matt 25:31-46 is it stated that there are believers either seated with Jesus on his throne or seated alongside him on their own thrones?’ However, instead of answering, you purposely imply that I was asking something different by saying ‘I cited the precise text where Christ POINTS to people with Him, and says "these my brethren".’ I suspect you did that to make it (deceptively) appear that you are answering what I asked. And you still haven’t answered that question despite me repeatedly pointing that out. That’s issue two.
You cannot say "these eggs" unless you have the eggs.

The pronoun "these" cannot be said if "the eggs" are somewhere else.

"These my brethren" requires they are there, in Christ's presence.

That is what you evade, the natural meaning of the pronoun "these".
 
You cannot say "these eggs" unless you have the eggs.

The pronoun "these" cannot be said if "the eggs" are somewhere else.

"These my brethren" requires they are there, in Christ's presence.

That is what you evade, the natural meaning of the pronoun "these".
Your continued dishonesty and unwillingness to read what I have written has brought an end to our discussion.
 
Your continued dishonesty and unwillingness to read what I have written has brought an end to our discussion.
You ignore grammar, one cannot say "these" if they aren't present. These "my brethren" proves the brethren were there as Christ spoke. That is elementary grammar:

Christ said to the Sheep "these my brethren" proving they were there, in the audience:

"And the King will answer and say to them,`Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.' (Matt. 25:40 NKJ)

Christ repeats to the Goats His brethren are there in plain sight, saying "inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these":

"Then He will answer them, saying,`Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' (Matt. 25:45 NKJ)


Nothing about my argument is dishonest, its elementary grammar. "These My brethren" proves Christ's brethren were there, in everyone's sight plain to see.
 
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