The Tribulation Period lasting for 7 years is a FALSE Doctri

[RND]

Double post

 

[veteran]

We'll just have to wait and seen then. But I suppose those who think the final "one week" of Daniel is already past history won't be watching the events happenning today in Jerusalem like our Lord Jesus said to watch.

If Jerusalem fell into the ocean tomorrow my Biblical worldview would remain in tact. Now, on the other hand, if Rome fell into the ocean.......

Already know some here are not looking for Christ's literal return, so I suppose it won't matter those aren't looking for a final Antichrist coming either, nor even for a future establishing of God's new heavens and a new earth timing. As a matter of fact, why don't those just throw away their Bibles since they believe everything written in It has already been fulfilled, and that how things are today is going to continue as is?

I think you are misunderstanding those that believe certain prophecies of Daniel have been fulfilled mean we believe all has been fulfilled.

Tell me something veteran, what "times and laws" did Jerusalem change? How did they "wear out the saints"? (See Dan. 7:25)

Sounds like you're misapplying the Dan.7 prophecy about Jerusalem. It's about the "little horn" causing it, not Jerusalem...

Dan 7:24-27
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.
(KJV)

The Dan.7:26-27 gives a timing marker, the dominion of that "little horn" being taken away, and his rule being destroyed, and his dominion being given to the saints, which then becomes an everlasting kingdom on the earth, with Christ reigning and the whole earth serving and obeying Him.

Are there nations on this earth today that refuse to bow to Christ? Yes. Has everyone bowed to Christ Jesus as KING and LORD today? No. It's not difficult to know those 26-27 verses are still future, for that's about the time when Christ will make ALL His enemies His footstool, with their bowing the knee to Him. That means all the wicked bowing the knee to Him, as written.

Those verses also reveal the "little horn" of Daniel must be setup in his kingdom on earth when Christ does return to take away his dominion and give it to the saints.

 

[jasoncran]

some say that is also talking about antiochus ephines the fourth.

 

[veteran]

some say that is also talking about antiochus ephines the fourth.

Yes, and Antiochus Epiphanes actually fit the role of the "vile person" in Daniel better than any other to date. Yet Antiochus did not fulfill all the prophecy, Christ's dominion over all nations with the wicked bowing the knee to Him did not occur, and the dominion of that "vile person" was not handed to the saints.

Also, the "vile person" of Daniel is part of the abomination of desolation prophecy. Antiochus was already dead for around 200 years before our Lord Jesus warned of the abomination of desolation from the Book of Daniel. Even in Revelation, those ten kings of Daniel are mentioned, with another king rising from among them, and the ten kings give their power to that one (Rev.17:10-11).

 

[jasoncran]

i was going to get into that. He is also related to Cleopatra the seventh(aka cleopatra and marc anthony).Her name in greek is Cleopatra thea ephines the VII, or Laodicea same title and beatrice the same title.
The city of laodicea is named after her ancestor the Laodicea the first.

 

[researcher]

You can't bake a cake from a recipe and have it taste good if some of the ingredients are missing from the recipe.

Some things are missing from full preterism. For one, Satan is still out (unless he was let out in recent history). I think a large part of the misunderstanding comes from the translators using the word "earth" in many places, where it should have been "land." Same Greek word, used for both. Just misapplying that one word has huge implications (at least when looking at everything from a literal standpoint). :crazy

 

[RND]

Sounds like you're misapplying the Dan.7 prophecy about Jerusalem. It's about the "little horn" causing it, not Jerusalem...

Rome.

The Dan.7:26-27 gives a timing marker, the dominion of that "little horn" being taken away, and his rule being destroyed, and his dominion being given to the saints, which then becomes an everlasting kingdom on the earth, with Christ reigning and the whole earth serving and obeying Him.

Are there nations on this earth today that refuse to bow to Christ? Yes. Has everyone bowed to Christ Jesus as KING and LORD today? No. It's not difficult to know those 26-27 verses are still future, for that's about the time when Christ will make ALL His enemies His footstool, with their bowing the knee to Him. That means all the wicked bowing the knee to Him, as written.

Those verses also reveal the "little horn" of Daniel must be setup in his kingdom on earth when Christ does return to take away his dominion and give it to the saints.

Rome.

 

[veteran]

I used to think that the final beast kingdom of Daniel was about a revived Roman empire, but looking at the beast image of Dan.2 and the prophecy about it reveals details I used to miss.

Since the 4th beast kingdom of legs of iron was about the old Roman empire, I used to think the feet of part iron and part clay was it's continuance, or revival. But it's not.

The 5th beast kingdom of the feet of part iron and part clay is to be together with all the previous beast kingdoms when Christ comes to strike it at its feet, and then the whole comes tumbling down. That means the kingdom of Babylon, the kingdom of Medo-Persia, the kingdom of Grecia, and the kingdom of Rome, all previous 4 beasts are revived for the end of days, and form the final 5th beast of feet of iron and clay.

Dan 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
(KJV)

What picture does that paint? Well, it doesn't just point to Rome, it points to a progressive working of beast kingdoms on the earth. If one looks at the history of those previous beast kingdoms, they kept enlarging, covering more nations and more peoples with each successive type. The pagan Roman empire of history covered the largest area, and largest number of peoples. The pattern?

The final 5th beast kingdom will cover ALL nations upon the earth, and that's what the globalist internationalist's plans are about with the New World Order idea, which is about the false worship of paganism reigning over the earth. All those previous beast kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia, and Rome, were about those who followed pagan religious ideas that originated from ancient Babylon. That's who will be behind the 5th and final beast kingdom too.

So what does the part of 'clay' represent?

 

[RND]

I used to think that the final beast kingdom of Daniel was about a revived Roman empire, but looking at the beast image of Dan.2 and the prophecy about it reveals details I used to miss.

Since the 4th beast kingdom of legs of iron was about the old Roman empire, I used to think the feet of part iron and part clay was it's continuance, or revival. But it's not.

The 5th beast kingdom of the feet of part iron and part clay is to be together with all the previous beast kingdoms when Christ comes to strike it at its feet, and then the whole comes tumbling down. That means the kingdom of Babylon, the kingdom of Medo-Persia, the kingdom of Grecia, and the kingdom of Rome, all previous 4 beasts are revived for the end of days, and form the final 5th beast of feet of iron and clay.

Dan 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
(KJV)

What picture does that paint? Well, it doesn't just point to Rome, it points to a progressive working of beast kingdoms on the earth.

That are mixed with clay and iron. Iron = Rome. So it has attributes of Rome.

If one looks at the history of those previous beast kingdoms, they kept enlarging, covering more nations and more peoples with each successive type. The pagan Roman empire of history covered the largest area, and largest number of peoples. The pattern?

The final 5th beast kingdom will cover ALL nations upon the earth, and that's what the globalist internationalist's plans are about with the New World Order idea, which is about the false worship of paganism reigning over the earth.

Which certainly points to the paganism of the Roman Catholic church.

All those previous beast kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia, and Rome, were about those who followed pagan religious ideas that originated from ancient Babylon. That's who will be behind the 5th and final beast kingdom too.

Rome.

So what does the part of 'clay' represent?

Clay represents "man". In other words this final beast has the pagan beliefs of Rome and the political attributes of man.

 

[veteran]

Yet Rome has other connections that have nothing to do with the Roman Church, like the globalist industrialist group called the Club of Rome. Can't just assign everything to Rome anyway, when considering the Daniel 2 image.

 

[RND]

Yet Rome has other connections that have nothing to do with the Roman Church, like the globalist industrialist group called the Club of Rome.

Which the pope has addressed. Many of the Club of Rome's members are leading Roman Catholics.

http://www.remnantofgod.org/Rev17.12.htm

Can't just assign everything to Rome anyway, when considering the Daniel 2 image.

When considering all the prophecies of the book of Daniel it is impossible NOT to assign everything to Rome!

 

[samuel]

I am afraid, I have to agree with veteran on this. I too came to that conclusion after a lot of thinking about it, and since Bayblon is mentioned at the time of the end not just in Revelation.

Each subsequent kingdom inherits some of the characteristics of the previous, and keeps building on the head of Gold. Besides have you ever paid attention! to the measurements of old king Nebbies statue. It was a statue of a man = 6, 60 cubits high, and 6 cubits wide. Hmmm, that equals six hundred sixty and six,,, WOW. :shocked!

The idea it is the Roman empire, is from that erroneous interpretation of Daniel 9:26.

 

[RND]

I am afraid, I have to agree with veteran on this. I too came to that conclusion after a lot of thinking about it, and since Bayblon is mentioned at the time of the end not just in Revelation.

Each subsequent kingdom inherits some of the characteristics of the previous, and keeps building on the head of Gold. Besides have you ever paid attention! to the measurements of old king Nebbies statue. It was a statue of a man = 6, 60 cubits high, and 6 cubits wide. Hmmm, that equals six hundred sixty and six,,, WOW. :shocked!

The idea it is the Roman empire, is from that erroneous interpretation of Daniel 9:26.

Samuel Daniel 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 all point to Rome and the rise of the Papacy.

The little horn grows out of the ten kingdoms that rise out of the terrible beast. That "little horn" is the papacy. It has thought to change "times and laws" and it has "worn out" the saints of God.

 

[samuel]

Look! the Catholic church is idolatrous, cultish, and a lot of other not so good things. And any sensible person should see this, and get out of it. But Luther hung the anti-christ on the pope, and the pope threw it right back on him. But that does not make the pope, the end times anti-christ. In his actions, and the position he claims, he is anti-christ, but that makes him only another of the many anti-christs'.

 

[RND]

Look! the Catholic church is idolatrous, cultish, and a lot of other not so good things. And any sensible person should see this,

You would think but it is remarkable how many of their beliefs are accepted by protestantism.

and get out of it.

It's not just Catholics that are called to leave Babylon but also those daughters of the harlot woman.

But Luther hung the anti-christ on the pope,

Yeah, so did Calvin, Wesley, Knox, et al.

and the pope threw it right back on him.

And that revoled around the sabbath.

But that does not make the pope, the end times anti-christ.

No, but it does make the system he represents anti-christ.

In his actions, and the position he claims, he is anti-christ,

Then why the disagreement?

but that makes him only another of the many anti-christs'.

I isn't about "a man" but "a system". No one has adequately shown me that system isn't Rome and the control she has over the nations.

 

[samuel]

The system can be any since the man in charge of this, is a gentile world leader. The actual anti-christ has to be the Jewish Messiah, known in the old testament as the hirling/false shepherd. Since the last times, revolve around Isreal more-so than the gentile nations.

 

[RND]

The system can be any since the man in charge of this, is a gentile world leader.

That's the stuff of movies and fiction books Samuel. There is no indication the there will be such a world leader in the Bible.

The actual anti-christ has to be the Jewish Messiah, known in the old testament as the hirling/false shepherd.

So you're saying Jesus, who was the Jewish Messiah, is anti-christ? Wow!

Since the last times, revolve around Isreal more-so than the gentile nations.

Then if that's the case what "times and laws" does Israel change? How does it "wear out the saints"? Israel does not factor into the final events of Bible prophecy Samuel. It is insignificant.

 

[samuel]

I did not say Jesus was a false Messiah, the old testament speaks of a false messiah in the last days. You know the one Jesus told the Jews about when he said, John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

The last 3.5 years of the last times are not called "The Times of Jacobs Troubles" for no reason. If this does not apply to Israel, then my name is not Jacob, so it does not apply to me.

 

[RND]

I did not say Jesus was a false Messiah, the old testament speaks of a false messiah in the last days.

Really? Where?

You know the one Jesus told the Jews about when he said, John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Come in "his own name". This is not a prophecy regarding a coming false messiah. The NLT says it this way: "For I have come to you representing my Father, and you refuse to welcome me, even though you readily accept others who represent only themselves."

The last 3.5 years of the last times are not called "The Times of Jacobs Troubles" for no reason.

The last 3.5 years have been fulfilled. Calendars don't stop in the middle and thus there are no gaps. That 70th week of Daniel, which describes Jesus being "cut-off" in the middle of the week as been completed. Fact is there is no indication in scripture how long the tribulation is going to be.

If this does not apply to Israel,

You are an Israelite. Gal. 3:28

then my name is not Jacob,

I have no idea what your name is.

so it does not apply to me.

See Romans 2:26-29

 

[Vic C.]

The Bible perfectly defines Antichrsit. If he/she/it/they don't fit that description, then it isn't antichrist nor from the spirit of antichrist. Honestly, some gnostics fit the description better than anything Rome can dish out.

You can't bake a cake from a recipe and have it taste good if some of the ingredients are missing from the recipe.

Some things are missing from full preterism. For one, Satan is still out (unless he was let out in recent history). I think a large part of the misunderstanding comes from the translators using the word "earth" in many places, where it should have been "land." Same Greek word, used for both. Just misapplying that one word has huge implications (at least when looking at everything from a literal standpoint). :crazy

I agree.

We'll just have to wait and seen then. But I suppose those who think the final "one week" of Daniel is already past history won't be watching the events happenning today in Jerusalem like our Lord Jesus said to watch.

Oh, I still have one eye on the events. Remember, I'm one of those who believes the whore is none other than Jerusalem. I'm just not confined to a literal seven year period. Plus my views on it being a literal one person and my views on there being a physical Temple are not the same.

As long as I cling to the hope of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, my focus is right where it should be.

Already know some here are not looking for Christ's literal return, so I suppose it won't matter those aren't looking for a final Antichrist coming either, nor even for a future establishing of God's new heavens and a new earth timing. As a matter of fact, why don't those just throw away their Bibles since they believe everything written in It has already been fulfilled, and that how things are today is going to continue as is?

I'm looking for what was promised to the believer. No antichrist has power over those sealed by God.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Even the Reformers knew better than to think Christ's return happenned back in the 1st century A.D. Even they'd recognize that doctrine could not be from God.

Absolutely! Newton expects it will happen, but not until sometime after 2060.