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The Tribulation Period lasting for 7 years is a FALSE Doctri

researcher said:
(THE) said:
Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Zechariah 14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

This is what im saying --- Zecheriah 14 is about the day of the Lord ---notice "all the saints with thee" as there ever been a time were all the saints came with Christ to earth and created a opening to the temple......But all these things must happen in the generation of the fig tree.........

Oops, forgot this...

Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Zec 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Zec 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
Zec 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Zec 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
Zec 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Zec 14:1 Lo, a day hath come to Jehovah, And divided hath been thy spoil in thy midst.

Past, or future?

Future bro,,,but these arent the easyist verses to understand,,,not hard but not easy,,,,,we would need to start from the top,,,gather our subject and object and roll with it......
 
(THE) said:
Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Zechariah 14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

This is what im saying --- Zecheriah 14 is about the day of the Lord ---notice "all the saints with thee" as there ever been a time were all the saints came with Christ to earth and created a opening to the temple......But all these things must happen in the generation of the fig tree.........
researcher said:
OK, what about this... Has this happened?

Zec 9:5 See doth Ashkelon and fear, Also Gaza, and she is exceedingly pained, Also Ekron--for her expectation dried up, And perished hath a king from Gaza, And Ashkelon doth not remain,
Zec 9:6 And dwelt hath a foreigner in Ashdod, And I have cut off the excellency of the Philistines.
Zec 9:7 And turned aside his blood from his mouth, His abominations from between his teeth, And he hath remained, even he, to our God, And he hath been as a leader in Judah, And Ekron as a Jebusite.
Zec 9:8 And I have pitched for My house a camp, Because of the passer through, and of the returner, And pass not through against them again doth an exactor, For, now, I have seen with My eyes.
Zec 9:9 Rejoice exceedingly, O daughter of Zion, Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem, Lo, thy King doth come to thee, Righteous--and saved is He, Afflicted--and riding on an ass, And on a colt--a son of she-asses.
Zec 9:10 And I have cut off the chariot from Ephraim, And the horse from Jerusalem, Yea, cut off hath been the bow of battle, And he hath spoken peace to nations, And his rule is from sea unto sea, And from the river unto the ends of earth.
Zec 9:11 Also thou--by the blood of thy covenant, I have sent thy prisoners out of the pit, There is no water in it.
(THE) said:
Future but its kinda hard to explain without touching on the kenites........

K, one more time, reading the part in bold. lol
 
(THE) said:
Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Zechariah 14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

This is what im saying --- Zecheriah 14 is about the day of the Lord ---notice "all the saints with thee" as there ever been a time were all the saints came with Christ to earth and created a opening to the temple......But all these things must happen in the generation of the fig tree.........
researcher said:
Oops, forgot this...

Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Zec 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Zec 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
Zec 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Zec 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
Zec 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Zec 14:1 Lo, a day hath come to Jehovah, And divided hath been thy spoil in thy midst.

Past, or future?
(THE) said:
Future bro,,,but these arent the easyist verses to understand,,,not hard but not easy,,,,,we would need to start from the top,,,gather our subject and object and roll with it......

K, one more time, read the bold, then, read the verse below. :o lol :o

Mat 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
Mat 26:32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.
 
researcher said:
(THE) said:
Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Zechariah 14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

This is what im saying --- Zecheriah 14 is about the day of the Lord ---notice "all the saints with thee" as there ever been a time were all the saints came with Christ to earth and created a opening to the temple......But all these things must happen in the generation of the fig tree.........
researcher said:
Oops, forgot this...

Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Zec 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Zec 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
Zec 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Zec 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
Zec 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Zec 14:1 Lo, a day hath come to Jehovah, And divided hath been thy spoil in thy midst.

Past, or future?
[quote="(THE)":hnjud16h]
Future bro,,,but these arent the easyist verses to understand,,,not hard but not easy,,,,,we would need to start from the top,,,gather our subject and object and roll with it......

K, one more time, read the bold, then, read the verse below. :o lol :o

Mat 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
Mat 26:32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.[/quote:hnjud16h]


Matthew 26:31 "Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad."

This is past,,, it was already foretold this would happen.......

Zechariah 13:7; "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

But this again is a shadow of things to come........

The flock has again been scattered,,,but satan will gather most of the sheep back to himself....
 
Can we take a break for a moment? I feel we're going in circles.

First off, No one is going to ban you. All I asked is that you tone down the insults a bit and if someone is insulting you, please let the Staffers know. :yes

You said:

The oblation and sacrifice is what we now call communion and passover feast,,,why in the world would Christ make us stop taking communion in rememberance of Him????????? He wouldnt unless He was here.....
You've stated this before, But I'm now going to ask you why you believe this and your Biblical support for such a belief.


This is why I don't believe it has anything to do with Communion (or sacrifices; something Christians were never commanded to do).

Who is Daniel speaking to? He's speaking to the people of his time. Daniel 9 seems to be clear on that. Dan 9:2 sets the stage for this vision (prophecy) and Dan 9:20 confirms the "audience".

9:2-In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

9:20-And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

Another word for oblation is offering. Now the people of Daniel's time knew nothing of communion but they knew a lot about sacrifices and offerings to God. :yes Interjecting Christian doctrine and ordinances into this chapter is not proper. I pray that one day you can view Daniel 9 as a chapter that is messianic and culminates with the advent and crucifixion of Messiah.

I used to believe but I don't anymore; I can't. There is not provision here for a future seven year period.
 
Vic C. said:
Can we take a break for a moment? I feel we're going in circles.

First off, No one is going to ban you. All I asked is that you tone down the insults a bit and if someone is insulting you, please let the Staffers know. :yes

You said:

The oblation and sacrifice is what we now call communion and passover feast,,,why in the world would Christ make us stop taking communion in rememberance of Him????????? He wouldnt unless He was here.....
You've stated this before, But I'm now going to ask you why you believe this and your Biblical support for such a belief.


This is why I don't believe it has anything to do with Communion (or sacrifices; something Christians were never commanded to do).

Who is Daniel speaking to? He's speaking to the people of his time. Daniel 9 seems to be clear on that. Dan 9:2 sets the stage for this vision (prophecy) and Dan 9:20 confirms the "audience".

9:2-In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

9:20-And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

Another word for oblation is offering. Now the people of Daniel's time knew nothing of communion but they knew a lot about sacrifices and offerings to God. :yes Interjecting Christian doctrine and ordinances into this chapter is not proper. I pray that one day you can view Daniel 9 as a chapter that is messianic and culminates with the advent and crucifixion of Messiah.

I used to believe but I don't anymore; I can't. There is not provision here for a future seven year period.
:thumb Vic, it is so easy to understand Daniel when the truth is presented so logically. Very nice Vic. (THE) has a major problem and unenviable position of agreeing with me that Jesus was cut-off in "the midst" of the 70th week and yet equates the ending of the sacrifice and oblation in the same "midst" of the week as somehow pertaining to Satan.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Such arguments begin, in time, to fade in any understanding and become illogical.
 
Can we take a break for a moment? I feel we're going in circles.

First off, No one is going to ban you. All I asked is that you tone down the insults a bit and if someone is insulting you, please let the Staffers know.

ok breaks are good.........Ok i'l tone it down,,,,and I wont even ask that the moderators (not you) be fair........But its not like im all reved up anyhow,,,,if I got something to say il say it,,,I wont antangonize other members in a attemp "hoping" to get someone banned.......But whatever it will be easy to calm it down,,,,il just wont talk to those members that lowly start mess.....

Like I said,,, Il lower it,,,but I wont go telling the mods..... :shrug I

You've stated this before, But I'm now going to ask you why you believe this and your Biblical support for such a belief.

It is a simple study,,,,and we both know that if I prove it,,,,that will utterly destroy the doctrine you hold....Because if the oblation is what I say it is,,Christ would never stop it unless He had returned.......But dont you think it should be a new thread?????????

I use to believe as you believed,,,,so I can say the same thing...........
 
researcher said:
OK, what about this... Has this happened?

Zec 9:5 See doth Ashkelon and fear, Also Gaza, and she is exceedingly pained, Also Ekron--for her expectation dried up, And perished hath a king from Gaza, And Ashkelon doth not remain,
Zec 9:6 And dwelt hath a foreigner in Ashdod, And I have cut off the excellency of the Philistines.
Zec 9:7 And turned aside his blood from his mouth, His abominations from between his teeth, And he hath remained, even he, to our God, And he hath been as a leader in Judah, And Ekron as a Jebusite.
Zec 9:8 And I have pitched for My house a camp, Because of the passer through, and of the returner, And pass not through against them again doth an exactor, For, now, I have seen with My eyes.
Zec 9:9 Rejoice exceedingly, O daughter of Zion, Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem, Lo, thy King doth come to thee, Righteous--and saved is He, Afflicted--and riding on an ass, And on a colt--a son of she-asses.
Zec 9:10 And I have cut off the chariot from Ephraim, And the horse from Jerusalem, Yea, cut off hath been the bow of battle, And he hath spoken peace to nations, And his rule is from sea unto sea, And from the river unto the ends of earth.
Zec 9:11 Also thou--by the blood of thy covenant, I have sent thy prisoners out of the pit, There is no water in it.


I'll take the challenge then, but I prefer the KJV...

Zech 9:9-17
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

The Zech.9:9 verse is about Christ's first coming, meek as a Lamb to die on the cross.

10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

But the Zech.9:10 verse is about Christ's second coming, with a sword, to cut off all battle off the earth and establishing His de facto reign on earth over all peoples and nations, including over the wicked. That's why it says His dominion will be from sea even to sea and from the river even to the ends of the earth. That's when He will put all His enemies under His feet, and His saints will rule with Him over that with that rod of iron of Revelation. That has yet to happen.

11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.
12 Turn you to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope: even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee;
13 When I have bent Judah for me, filled the bow with Ephraim, and raised up thy sons, O Zion, against thy sons, O Greece, and made thee as the sword of a mighty man.
14 And the LORD shall be seen over them, and His arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

That's about two separate timelines, the first with Christ's first coming to release the prisoners through His Blood shed upon the cross. It is also about the final battle to end this world, for the old beast kingdom of Grecia will be a piece of the Dan.2 beast image, along with all the previous beast kingdoms of history. They are all to join together within the final 5th beast kingdom of the feet of iron mixed with clay. Christ is to strike that beast image at its feet to cause the whole to come tumbling down. It's about the final beast system, the one of Rev.13:1, and the battles of Armageddon and Hamongog, which usher in Christ's future literal Kingdom upon this earth, ruling with His saints with a rod of iron over all nations. That's about the 7th angel sounding of Rev.11:15, the "last trump" and the "trump" Paul taught of in 1 Cor.15 and 1 Thess.4.

15 The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar.
16 And the LORD their God shall save them in that day as the flock of His people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon His land.

That is the final battle to end this world, when Christ will come to fight for the saved with His angels, and all the kings of the earth and the haughty ones will be gathered for the great supper of God for the buzzards to eat at the slaughter.

17 For how great is His goodness, and how great is His beauty! corn shall make the young men cheerful, and new wine the maids.
(KJV)

The time of corn and new wine is about sitting down at meat at Christ's table anew, in His Kingdom on earth, in His Presence. Per the end of Isaiah, the redeemed are to build houses, plant vineyards, and enjoy true peace and righteousness upon the earth.


The Zech.14 Scripture is about Christ's second coming back to the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. The angels in Acts 1 told Christ's disciples who literally saw Him ascend up into Heaven with clouds, that He will return to this earth in like manner as He ascended up into Heaven. Christ's ascension happenned upon the Mount of Olives per Acts 1. The Zechariah 14 event is about His return, His second coming, back to that same spot on earth, in like manner, and that has yet to happen. And it's to cause a great vlley to be formed there.

And then the rest of Zech.14 is Milennium reign timing, when Christ will literally rule over all nations with the rod of iron of Revelation. And His saints will rule with Him as priests and kings. All nations will be required to come up to Jerusalem where Christ Jesus will be, and worship, and hold the feast of tabernacles. Those nations that refuse will have no rain upon their lands.
 
"THE" is ultimately correct about the Daniel 70 weeks timing.

Those on the doctrines of Full Preterism believe there won't be a second coming of Christ Jesus. So they naturally treat the 70 weeks prophecy as all past history. Remove the influence of men's doctrines like Preterism, and continue God's Message given Daniel further through Dan.11-12, and the Preterist ideas fall flat.

Dan.11 speaks of a "vile person" that shows up in Jerusalem, and makes a "league" among a small people who will eventually forsake the holy covenant. And that vile person places the abomination that maketh desolate, and removes the daily oblation and sacrifice. In Dan.12 is given the timing of the taking away of the oblation and sacrifice again. The Preterist are counting on folks not continuing Bible study into the Dan.11 & 12 chapters. They want you to stop at the end of Dan.9 and just accept what they say.

The one who confirms the covenant with many for one week is not our Lord Jesus Christ. It's the "vile person" written of later in Dan.11 who comes to power PEACEABLY in Jerusalem with a small people, and makes a "league" among them, and then breaks it by causing the oblation and sacrifice to cease, and then sets up the "abomination that maketh desolate", which is about placing an idol in the holy of holies for false worship.

Dan 11:21-24
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
(KJV)

Dan 11:29-32
29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
(KJV)

That is the "abomination of desolation" event our Lord Jesus warned of in Matt.24, the placing of an idol in the "holy place" inside the temple at Jerusalem for the purpose of idol worship. The Romans did not do that in 70 A.D., for the temple caught on fire before they could get possession of it (per Jewish historian Josephus).

Our Lord Jesus also gave us a historical blueprint of a type for the antichrist that almost fulfilled all that back in 170 B.C. His name was Antiochus Epiphanes, a Syrian who conquered Jerusalem, went inside the holy place in the temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar, and spread its broth around inside the temple. He setup idol worship in Jerusalem, but later came to his death.

An idol setup in the holy place in Jerusalem is what the "abomination of desolation" event of Daniel is about.

Matt 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
(KJV)

So a proper study through the rest of the Book of Daniel seals the prophesy of the 70 weeks, showing that last period of "one week" in Dan.9, is specifically about the antichrist, and his setting up an idol in the temple in Jerusalem. Antiochus was the blueprint example, and Christ gave that abomination of desolation prophecy long AFTER Antiochus had been dead. And never again has anyone ever fulfilled that working in Jerusalem since Antiochus, not even the Romans were able.

Also since the temple was destroyed when the Romans took Jerusalem in 70 A.D., never to be built again, that let's us know that abomination of desolation event is meant for the final end of days.

And just what is that "another beast" of Revelation 13:11 forward going to do as written? He's going to setup an image of the beast for all to worship, and that those who refuse should be killed. There's the "abomination of desolation" event we are to look for in the end of days. And of course, that means the rebuilding of another temple in Jerusalem for that to take place. It does not matter that we Christians now spiritually represent the true Temple of God, for the abomination of desolation events are specifically meant to be upon the unbelieving and deceived. It's what the "strong delusion" of 2 Thess.2 is about, which we are not to be deceived in.

That "another beast" there of Rev.13:11 speaks as a "dragon", and we know per Rev.12:9 the name 'dragon' is another title for Satan himself, as written. So it is that "dragon" which is pointing to the "vile person" in the Book of Daniel. That's the final Antichrist which Christ's return will destroy.
 
Those on the doctrines of Full Preterism believe there won't be a second coming of Christ Jesus. So they naturally treat the 70 weeks prophecy as all past history. Remove the influence of men's doctrines like Preterism, and continue God's Message given Daniel further through Dan.11-12, and the Preterist ideas fall flat.

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
Gal 1:2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from him who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits that are before his throne;

Rev 3:1 And to the angel of the church in Sardis write:
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and didst hear; and keep it, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth and none shall shut, and that shutteth and none openeth:
Rev 3:11 I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown.

Rev 2:18 And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like a flame of fire, and his feet are like unto burnished brass:
Rev 2:24 But to you I say, to the rest that are in Thyatira, as many as have not this teaching, who know not the deep things of Satan, as they are wont to say; I cast upon you none other burden.
Rev 2:25 Nevertheless that which ye have, hold fast till I come.


Rev 1:11 saying, What thou seest, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamum, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:7 And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:7 "{And} listen! I am coming quickly! Happy [is] the one keeping the words of the prophecy of this scroll."


Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky; and all the peoples of the land will weep as they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 The great trumpet will sound, and he will send out his angels to the four corners of the earth, and they will gather his chosen people from one end of the world to the other.
Mat 24:34 Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.
 
Hmm, I'm no preterist, but I do believe the 70 week prophecy is fulfilled, just as the Reformers believed. Throughout 1,700 years of Christianity, most considered Daniel 9 to be part of Messianic prophecy. Newton believed it and he studied straight from the Hebrew text available to him.

As for Daniel 11; instead of me attempting to break it down, read this:

http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view. ... hapter=011

Clarke gives us a very accurate, historical perspective on it, as he usually does in his commentaries. His writings read more like a history book than anything else.

You can't bake a cake from a recipe and have it taste good if some of the ingredients are missing from the recipe. :lol
 
Vic C. said:
Hmm, I'm no preterist, but I do believe the 70 week prophecy is fulfilled, just as the Reformers believed. Throughout 1,700 years of Christianity, most considered Daniel 9 to be part of Messianic prophecy. Newton believed it and he studied straight from the Hebrew text available to him.

As for Daniel 11; instead of me attempting to break it down, read this:

http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view. ... hapter=011

Clarke gives us a very accurate, historical perspective on it, as he usually does in his commentaries. His writings read more like a history book than anything else.

You can't bake a cake from a recipe and have it taste good if some of the ingredients are missing from the recipe. :lol
It's like reading an Adventist, almost! Can't beat the logic of the historicist.
 
We'll just have to wait and seen then. But I suppose those who think the final "one week" of Daniel is already past history won't be watching the events happenning today in Jerusalem like our Lord Jesus said to watch.

Already know some here are not looking for Christ's literal return, so I suppose it won't matter those aren't looking for a final Antichrist coming either, nor even for a future establishing of God's new heavens and a new earth timing. As a matter of fact, why don't those just throw away their Bibles since they believe everything written in It has already been fulfilled, and that how things are today is going to continue as is?

Even the Reformers knew better than to think Christ's return happenned back in the 1st century A.D. Even they'd recognize that doctrine could not be from God.
 
If what's happening in america is any indication of that the kingdom has come. Then Who will help us, as many in the church are running to support sin.

The world is not getting any safer these days. I'm only 36 and notice this.
 
jasoncran said:
If what's happening in america is any indication of that the kingdom has come. Then Who will help us, as many in the church are running to support sin.

The world is not getting any safer these days. I'm only 36 and notice this.

Lot of folks are simply deceived in those doctrines of Preterism because that's what their Church has preached to them most of their lives. Setup an organization on earth in this time that's open to anyone, and Satan's workers will infiltrate it and eventually take it over. We were forewarned about these kind of times with that happenning, for God showed He would take away the power of His people in the last days.

I don't like to think that God has pre-ordained only a certain number for the ends of days that won't be deceived, and that all believers have the opportunity to not be deceived about the events of the end, but now I'm beginning to wonder. I'm starting to think the blindness upon many believers today is from God's Hand, and for a reason.
 
jasoncran said:
the scary thing is how similar the preterist view and the jw view of rebuilding things are!

I don't believe the JW view, but I do believe we inherit the earth like our Lord Jesus said, and the Psalms says. The major difference will be that we're in the glorified body with Christ. The end of Revelation shows an area the shape of a cube that ascends from the earth up into space that's 1500 miles all around.
 
of course we inheret the earth.

The jw's say that isreal as a nation is done.
so do the preterists
Both say the believers are spiritual isreal.
 
veteran said:
We'll just have to wait and seen then. But I suppose those who think the final "one week" of Daniel is already past history won't be watching the events happenning today in Jerusalem like our Lord Jesus said to watch.
If Jerusalem fell into the ocean tomorrow my Biblical worldview would remain in tact. Now, on the other hand, if Rome fell into the ocean.......

Already know some here are not looking for Christ's literal return, so I suppose it won't matter those aren't looking for a final Antichrist coming either, nor even for a future establishing of God's new heavens and a new earth timing. As a matter of fact, why don't those just throw away their Bibles since they believe everything written in It has already been fulfilled, and that how things are today is going to continue as is?
I think you are misunderstanding those that believe certain prophecies of Daniel have been fulfilled mean we believe all has been fulfilled.

Tell me something veteran, what "times and laws" did Jerusalem change? How did they "wear out the saints"? (See Dan. 7:25)

Even the Reformers knew better than to think Christ's return happenned back in the 1st century A.D. Even they'd recognize that doctrine could not be from God.
That's true.
 
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