(THE) said:Future but its kinda hard to explain without touching on the kenites........
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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(THE) said:Future but its kinda hard to explain without touching on the kenites........
researcher said:(THE) said:Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."
Zechariah 14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."
This is what im saying --- Zecheriah 14 is about the day of the Lord ---notice "all the saints with thee" as there ever been a time were all the saints came with Christ to earth and created a opening to the temple......But all these things must happen in the generation of the fig tree.........
Oops, forgot this...
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Zec 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Zec 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
Zec 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Zec 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
Zec 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Zec 14:1 Lo, a day hath come to Jehovah, And divided hath been thy spoil in thy midst.
Past, or future?
(THE) said:Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."
Zechariah 14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."
This is what im saying --- Zecheriah 14 is about the day of the Lord ---notice "all the saints with thee" as there ever been a time were all the saints came with Christ to earth and created a opening to the temple......But all these things must happen in the generation of the fig tree.........
researcher said:OK, what about this... Has this happened?
Zec 9:5 See doth Ashkelon and fear, Also Gaza, and she is exceedingly pained, Also Ekron--for her expectation dried up, And perished hath a king from Gaza, And Ashkelon doth not remain,
Zec 9:6 And dwelt hath a foreigner in Ashdod, And I have cut off the excellency of the Philistines.
Zec 9:7 And turned aside his blood from his mouth, His abominations from between his teeth, And he hath remained, even he, to our God, And he hath been as a leader in Judah, And Ekron as a Jebusite.
Zec 9:8 And I have pitched for My house a camp, Because of the passer through, and of the returner, And pass not through against them again doth an exactor, For, now, I have seen with My eyes.
Zec 9:9 Rejoice exceedingly, O daughter of Zion, Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem, Lo, thy King doth come to thee, Righteous--and saved is He, Afflicted--and riding on an ass, And on a colt--a son of she-asses.
Zec 9:10 And I have cut off the chariot from Ephraim, And the horse from Jerusalem, Yea, cut off hath been the bow of battle, And he hath spoken peace to nations, And his rule is from sea unto sea, And from the river unto the ends of earth.
Zec 9:11 Also thou--by the blood of thy covenant, I have sent thy prisoners out of the pit, There is no water in it.
(THE) said:Future but its kinda hard to explain without touching on the kenites........
(THE) said:Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."
Zechariah 14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."
This is what im saying --- Zecheriah 14 is about the day of the Lord ---notice "all the saints with thee" as there ever been a time were all the saints came with Christ to earth and created a opening to the temple......But all these things must happen in the generation of the fig tree.........
researcher said:Oops, forgot this...
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Zec 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Zec 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
Zec 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Zec 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
Zec 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Zec 14:1 Lo, a day hath come to Jehovah, And divided hath been thy spoil in thy midst.
Past, or future?
(THE) said:Future bro,,,but these arent the easyist verses to understand,,,not hard but not easy,,,,,we would need to start from the top,,,gather our subject and object and roll with it......
researcher said:(THE) said:Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."
Zechariah 14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."
This is what im saying --- Zecheriah 14 is about the day of the Lord ---notice "all the saints with thee" as there ever been a time were all the saints came with Christ to earth and created a opening to the temple......But all these things must happen in the generation of the fig tree.........[quote="(THE)":hnjud16h]researcher said:Oops, forgot this...
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Zec 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Zec 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
Zec 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Zec 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
Zec 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Zec 14:1 Lo, a day hath come to Jehovah, And divided hath been thy spoil in thy midst.
Past, or future?
Future bro,,,but these arent the easyist verses to understand,,,not hard but not easy,,,,,we would need to start from the top,,,gather our subject and object and roll with it......
You've stated this before, But I'm now going to ask you why you believe this and your Biblical support for such a belief.The oblation and sacrifice is what we now call communion and passover feast,,,why in the world would Christ make us stop taking communion in rememberance of Him????????? He wouldnt unless He was here.....
Vic, it is so easy to understand Daniel when the truth is presented so logically. Very nice Vic. (THE) has a major problem and unenviable position of agreeing with me that Jesus was cut-off in "the midst" of the 70th week and yet equates the ending of the sacrifice and oblation in the same "midst" of the week as somehow pertaining to Satan.Vic C. said:Can we take a break for a moment? I feel we're going in circles.
First off, No one is going to ban you. All I asked is that you tone down the insults a bit and if someone is insulting you, please let the Staffers know. :yes
You said:
You've stated this before, But I'm now going to ask you why you believe this and your Biblical support for such a belief.The oblation and sacrifice is what we now call communion and passover feast,,,why in the world would Christ make us stop taking communion in rememberance of Him????????? He wouldnt unless He was here.....
This is why I don't believe it has anything to do with Communion (or sacrifices; something Christians were never commanded to do).
Who is Daniel speaking to? He's speaking to the people of his time. Daniel 9 seems to be clear on that. Dan 9:2 sets the stage for this vision (prophecy) and Dan 9:20 confirms the "audience".
9:2-In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
9:20-And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;
Another word for oblation is offering. Now the people of Daniel's time knew nothing of communion but they knew a lot about sacrifices and offerings to God. :yes Interjecting Christian doctrine and ordinances into this chapter is not proper. I pray that one day you can view Daniel 9 as a chapter that is messianic and culminates with the advent and crucifixion of Messiah.
I used to believe but I don't anymore; I can't. There is not provision here for a future seven year period.
Can we take a break for a moment? I feel we're going in circles.
First off, No one is going to ban you. All I asked is that you tone down the insults a bit and if someone is insulting you, please let the Staffers know.
You've stated this before, But I'm now going to ask you why you believe this and your Biblical support for such a belief.
researcher said:OK, what about this... Has this happened?
Zec 9:5 See doth Ashkelon and fear, Also Gaza, and she is exceedingly pained, Also Ekron--for her expectation dried up, And perished hath a king from Gaza, And Ashkelon doth not remain,
Zec 9:6 And dwelt hath a foreigner in Ashdod, And I have cut off the excellency of the Philistines.
Zec 9:7 And turned aside his blood from his mouth, His abominations from between his teeth, And he hath remained, even he, to our God, And he hath been as a leader in Judah, And Ekron as a Jebusite.
Zec 9:8 And I have pitched for My house a camp, Because of the passer through, and of the returner, And pass not through against them again doth an exactor, For, now, I have seen with My eyes.
Zec 9:9 Rejoice exceedingly, O daughter of Zion, Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem, Lo, thy King doth come to thee, Righteous--and saved is He, Afflicted--and riding on an ass, And on a colt--a son of she-asses.
Zec 9:10 And I have cut off the chariot from Ephraim, And the horse from Jerusalem, Yea, cut off hath been the bow of battle, And he hath spoken peace to nations, And his rule is from sea unto sea, And from the river unto the ends of earth.
Zec 9:11 Also thou--by the blood of thy covenant, I have sent thy prisoners out of the pit, There is no water in it.
Those on the doctrines of Full Preterism believe there won't be a second coming of Christ Jesus. So they naturally treat the 70 weeks prophecy as all past history. Remove the influence of men's doctrines like Preterism, and continue God's Message given Daniel further through Dan.11-12, and the Preterist ideas fall flat.
It's like reading an Adventist, almost! Can't beat the logic of the historicist.Vic C. said:Hmm, I'm no preterist, but I do believe the 70 week prophecy is fulfilled, just as the Reformers believed. Throughout 1,700 years of Christianity, most considered Daniel 9 to be part of Messianic prophecy. Newton believed it and he studied straight from the Hebrew text available to him.
As for Daniel 11; instead of me attempting to break it down, read this:
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view. ... hapter=011
Clarke gives us a very accurate, historical perspective on it, as he usually does in his commentaries. His writings read more like a history book than anything else.
You can't bake a cake from a recipe and have it taste good if some of the ingredients are missing from the recipe.
jasoncran said:If what's happening in america is any indication of that the kingdom has come. Then Who will help us, as many in the church are running to support sin.
The world is not getting any safer these days. I'm only 36 and notice this.
jasoncran said:the scary thing is how similar the preterist view and the jw view of rebuilding things are!
If Jerusalem fell into the ocean tomorrow my Biblical worldview would remain in tact. Now, on the other hand, if Rome fell into the ocean.......veteran said:We'll just have to wait and seen then. But I suppose those who think the final "one week" of Daniel is already past history won't be watching the events happenning today in Jerusalem like our Lord Jesus said to watch.
I think you are misunderstanding those that believe certain prophecies of Daniel have been fulfilled mean we believe all has been fulfilled.Already know some here are not looking for Christ's literal return, so I suppose it won't matter those aren't looking for a final Antichrist coming either, nor even for a future establishing of God's new heavens and a new earth timing. As a matter of fact, why don't those just throw away their Bibles since they believe everything written in It has already been fulfilled, and that how things are today is going to continue as is?
That's true.Even the Reformers knew better than to think Christ's return happenned back in the 1st century A.D. Even they'd recognize that doctrine could not be from God.