The Tribulation Period lasting for 7 years is a FALSE Doctri

[(THE)]

Funny I physically attend no church,,,all of my research comes straight from the bible using Hebrew,,,Greek,,,Chaldee,,,,Aramiac,,,,and what ever else needed to get to the truth,,,,YOu Need to check yourself Bro,,,,Im alway telling people listen to know man,,,I dont really have to pull a old post where I said it do I???????? Im the last person you should be coming at with some
"you were taught that speech",,,I DO MY OWN STUDYING!!!!!

Ever read any Tim LaHaye ?, it sure seem like you must.

Never heard of the dude,,,,,,so I googled,,,,,,Please dont ever associate me with anyone that pushes rapture nonsense.......................................................

 

[samuel]

Well it just seemed to me you must have, because your interpretation of Daniel 9:25-27 is the prime support interpretation of the Rapture nonsense.

Without that particular interpretation, the PreTrib Rapture doctrine has no leg to stand on.

 

[researcher]

I agree with Vet,,,researcher.....What one would have to do is go down the line and prove that each of the events spoken in matthew 24 have come to pass.......Impossible task....

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

(THE)

You think it was just a coincidence that Jesus told his disciples that when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies to get out of the area, and then almost 40 years later, Jerusalem was surrounded by armies, the city and temple were destroyed, and almost everyone (1.6 million people by some historian's counts) in the area was killed, died of starvation & sickness during the siege etc, (not too mention those killed when the war started)?

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Mar 13:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
Mar 13:16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

He told his disciples "get out of the area when you see this" Why? Because everyone was going to die. To think that it happened just like he said, and not attribute the Roman destruction of Jerusalem to what he was saying in the those verses is basically, failure to see what is right in front of person on an epic scale.

What one would have to do is go down the line and prove that each of the events spoken in matthew 24 have come to pass.......Impossible task....

As for proving that what Jesus said would happen happened, if Jesus said it, it would be true. And if what he said is true, then it should have happened, and it would mean that it didn't look like what we have been told should happen, or how we expect(ed) it to. No one living today was in Jerusalem or Israel in the 1st century.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Do you believe that the preceding verses are true?

If so, can you prove that they are true?

If you can't prove it, does that mean that those verses aren't true?

 

[(THE)]

Well it just seemed to me you must have, because your interpretation of Daniel 9:25-27 is the prime support interpretation of the Rapture nonsense.

Without that particular interpretation, the PreTrib Rapture doctrine has no leg to stand on.

I have no idea how people that believe in the rapture view Daniel

Without that particular interpretation, the PreTrib Rapture doctrine has no leg to stand on

The rapture doctrine doesnt have a leg to stand on using any interpretation of any scripture,,,its just plain bogus...........

However I dont see how my view can be accepted by rapturist anyhow.....

What I,, and many have in fact shown,,,is the "prince" spoken of,, is not the "Messiah" spoken of......

If one is willing it only takes a moment of research to see that this "prince" comes in on the wing of abomination.............Even if one hates Hebrew and wont look at it,,,just use common sense and proper reading......

Daniel 9:26 "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

Messiah (Christ) will be cut off............ and the people of the "prince" shall come.......

Messiah (Christ) will be cut off............ and the people of the "prince" shall come.......

There is no way,,,,that this "Messiah" is the "prince"................

 

[(THE)]

Researcher

You think it was just a coincidence that Jesus told his disciples that when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies to get out of the area, and then almost 40 years later, Jerusalem was surrounded by armies, the city and temple were destroyed, and almost everyone (1.6 million people by some historian's counts) in the area was killed, died of starvation & sickness during the siege etc, (not too mention those killed when the war started)?

Coincidence---------- NAH lets just say shadow/type for things to come......Not to sound harsh but that was nothing compared to the obliteration that will befall Jerusalem at the return of Christ......

He told his disciples "get out of the area when you see this" Why? Because everyone was going to die. To think that it happened just like he said, and not attribute the Roman destruction of Jerusalem to what he was saying in the those verses is basically, failure to see what is right in front of person on an epic scale.

He was talking to the disciples (correct) but he was talking abou the generation of the fig tree
(thats us )

Not just like he said...Christ said all the things would happen before the end of the generation,,,,,,well the end of that generation has long passed.........

As for proving that what Jesus said would happen happened, if Jesus said it, it would be true. And if what he said is true, then it should have happened, and it would mean that it didn't look like what we have been told should happen, or how we expect(ed) it to. No one living today was in Jerusalem or Israel in the 1st century.

Im not understanding the logic here,,,The disciples asked Christ concerning things that would happen in the future......SO he answered them,,,why must those things have taken place in 70ad?????????

Let me ask ya something---------When do you believe the good and bad figs returned to Jerusalem????????????

 

[RND]

There is no way,,,,that this "Messiah" is the "prince"................

That's right. Now, when does the Messiah get "cut off"? At the beginning of the 70th week or in the middle of it?

 

[researcher]

Not just like he said...Christ said all the things would happen before the end of the generation,,,,,,well the end of that generation has long passed.........

Lol. They did.

 

[(THE)]

There is no way,,,,that this "Messiah" is the "prince"................

That's right. Now, when does the Messiah get "cut off"? At the beginning of the 70th week or in the middle of it?

lol I would say middle "and in the midst of the week " half way "

 

[(THE)]

Not just like he said...Christ said all the things would happen before the end of the generation,,,,,,well the end of that generation has long passed.........

Lol. They did.

YOu believe this has already happened ???????

25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

[RND]

[quote="(THE)":1b3d7yc1]There is no way,,,,that this "Messiah" is the "prince"................

That's right. Now, when does the Messiah get "cut off"? At the beginning of the 70th week or in the middle of it?

lol I would say middle "and in the midst of the week " half way "[/quote:1b3d7yc1] So in the midst of the week Jesus caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and by the 'wings' of abominations he made Israel desolate?

 

[researcher]

Not just like he said...Christ said all the things would happen before the end of the generation,,,,,,well the end of that generation has long passed.........

Lol. They did.

YOu believe this has already happened ???????

25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Mat 24:29 And immediately after the affliction of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Mat 24:30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the land will wail. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory.
Mat 24:31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens to their ends. (Literal Version)

Right after that tribulation. To the tribes, in the land of Israel (most likely right over Jerusalem/Judaea as it says it would happen in that land).

Sun moon and stars is apocalyptic wording used other places in the Bible when talking about the destruction of a country etc. (Eze 32:7)

 

[(THE)]

Well at least I know satans not working through you because these are the lamest word traps I have ever encountered...........

The oblation and sacrifice is what we now call communion and passover feast,,,why in the world would Christ make us stop taking communion in rememberance of Him????????? He wouldnt unless He was here......

It is antichrist/satan that will be here (defacto) claiming to be Christ...It is satan that will cause that will cause the oblation to cease,,,,,and because of this God will pour out his wrath on satan........

Again it is the 'prince' (satan) that cause the oblation ot cease.........

YOu said --- and by the 'wings' of abominations he made Israel desolate----

This is what the text says,, ??????? ?????? this translates into "on the" wings....not "by the" wings I think I made this error too,,,hey live and learn.......Funny you asking me questions though,,,I would have thought you were patiently waiting for my removal...........

 

[(THE)]

Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Zechariah 14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

This is what im saying --- Zecheriah 14 is about the day of the Lord ---notice "all the saints with thee" as there ever been a time were all the saints came with Christ to earth and created a opening to the temple......But all these things must happen in the generation of the fig tree.........

 

[RND]

Well at least I know satans not working through you because these are the lamest word traps I have ever encountered...........

Sorry you feel that way.

The oblation and sacrifice is what we now call communion and passover feast,,,why in the world would Christ make us stop taking communion in rememberance of Him????????? He wouldnt unless He was here......

I'm confused then. You said that Jesus was cut off in "middle 'and in the midst of the week ' half way" and so wouldn't verse 27 in referring to the sacrifice and oblation ceasing in the middle of the week be referring to Jesus?

Gotcha BTW!

It is antichrist/satan that will be here (defacto) claiming to be Christ...It is satan that will cause that will cause the oblation to cease,,,,,and because of this God will pour out his wrath on satan........

But you said Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week and verse 27 says "in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" so......

Again it is the 'prince' (satan) that cause the oblation ot cease.........

How can that be when it says that the Messiah was "cut-off" and "in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease"

YOu said --- and by the 'wings' of abominations he made Israel desolate----

Yes, I did. As part of my question.

This is what the text says,, ??????? ?????? this translates into "on the" wings....not "by the" wings I think I made this error too,,,hey live and learn.......

Just modern English.

Funny you asking me questions though,,,I would have thought you were patiently waiting for my removal...........

There are always things to hope for.

 

[(THE)]

Well at least I know satans not working through you because these are the lamest word traps I have ever encountered...........

Sorry you feel that way.

The oblation and sacrifice is what we now call communion and passover feast,,,why in the world would Christ make us stop taking communion in rememberance of Him????????? He wouldnt unless He was here......

I'm confused then. You said that Jesus was cut off in "middle 'and in the midst of the week ' half way" and so wouldn't verse 27 in referring to the sacrifice and oblation ceasing in the middle of the week be referring to Jesus?

Gotcha BTW!

[quote:3efejpek]It is antichrist/satan that will be here (defacto) claiming to be Christ...It is satan that will cause that will cause the oblation to cease,,,,,and because of this God will pour out his wrath on satan........

But you said Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week and verse 27 says "in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" so......

Again it is the 'prince' (satan) that cause the oblation ot cease.........

How can that be when it says that the Messiah was "cut-off" and "in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease"

YOu said --- and by the 'wings' of abominations he made Israel desolate----

Yes, I did. As part of my question.

This is what the text says,, ??????? ?????? this translates into "on the" wings....not "by the" wings I think I made this error too,,,hey live and learn.......

Just modern English.

Funny you asking me questions though,,,I would have thought you were patiently waiting for my removal...........

There are always things to hope for.[/quote:3efejpek]


Please learn to stay on subject,,,we are discussing Daniel 9:27 which is the refering to the last week....

So when you ask when was the Christ cut off I said the middle,,,duh,,,the middle of the last week,,,again lame traps...You got no-one........and since your hoping for me to get banned,,,im pretty sure you will try little nonsense to achieve this,,,So fell free to grab those pom-poms now.... :biglaugh

There is no reason to discuss this or anything further,,,please contact your local SDA center for antyfurther questions you might have.........Even if you respond I wont see it..... :shades

 

[RND]

Please learn to stay on subject,,,we are discussing Daniel 9:27 which is the refering to the last week....

Yes it is.

So when you ask when was the Christ cut off I said the middle,,,duh,,,the middle of the last week,,,again lame traps...You got no-one........

If you admit Jesus was cut-off in the middle of the 70th week and the sacrifice and oblation end in the middle of that week how can you say Satan causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease?

And yes, you're right I didn't get you. You tripped up yourself.

and since your hoping for me to get banned,,,im pretty sure you will try little nonsense to achieve this,,,So fell free to grab those pom-poms now.... :biglaugh

Not at all. This was an honest attempt to show you how illogical it is to place Satan as the one who caused the sacrice to end.

There is no reason to discuss this or anything further,,,please contact your local SDA center for antyfurther questions you might have.........

Well, I agree with that! You said yourself Jesus was cut-off in the middle of the week so therefore it can't be Satan that causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease.

Even if you respond I wont see it..... :shades

[/quote] You can lead a horse to water.......

 

[(THE)]

Researcher---Where do you think we are at right now????? YOu dont have to say were in the 7 trump or were at the sixth seal,,,,,or anything like that,,,what do you think the next big event concerning biblical prophecy will be????????

 

[researcher]

Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Zechariah 14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

This is what im saying --- Zecheriah 14 is about the day of the Lord ---notice "all the saints with thee" as there ever been a time were all the saints came with Christ to earth and created a opening to the temple......But all these things must happen in the generation of the fig tree.........

OK, what about this... Has this happened?

Zec 9:5 See doth Ashkelon and fear, Also Gaza, and she is exceedingly pained, Also Ekron--for her expectation dried up, And perished hath a king from Gaza, And Ashkelon doth not remain,
Zec 9:6 And dwelt hath a foreigner in Ashdod, And I have cut off the excellency of the Philistines.
Zec 9:7 And turned aside his blood from his mouth, His abominations from between his teeth, And he hath remained, even he, to our God, And he hath been as a leader in Judah, And Ekron as a Jebusite.
Zec 9:8 And I have pitched for My house a camp, Because of the passer through, and of the returner, And pass not through against them again doth an exactor, For, now, I have seen with My eyes.
Zec 9:9 Rejoice exceedingly, O daughter of Zion, Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem, Lo, thy King doth come to thee, Righteous--and saved is He, Afflicted--and riding on an ass, And on a colt--a son of she-asses.
Zec 9:10 And I have cut off the chariot from Ephraim, And the horse from Jerusalem, Yea, cut off hath been the bow of battle, And he hath spoken peace to nations, And his rule is from sea unto sea, And from the river unto the ends of earth.
Zec 9:11 Also thou--by the blood of thy covenant, I have sent thy prisoners out of the pit, There is no water in it.

 

[researcher]

Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Zechariah 14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

This is what im saying --- Zecheriah 14 is about the day of the Lord ---notice "all the saints with thee" as there ever been a time were all the saints came with Christ to earth and created a opening to the temple......But all these things must happen in the generation of the fig tree.........

Oops, forgot this...

Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Zec 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
Zec 12:14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Zec 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
Zec 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Zec 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
Zec 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Zec 14:1 Lo, a day hath come to Jehovah, And divided hath been thy spoil in thy midst.

Past, or future?

 

[(THE)]

Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Zechariah 14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

This is what im saying --- Zecheriah 14 is about the day of the Lord ---notice "all the saints with thee" as there ever been a time were all the saints came with Christ to earth and created a opening to the temple......But all these things must happen in the generation of the fig tree.........

OK, what about this... Has this happened?

Zec 9:5 See doth Ashkelon and fear, Also Gaza, and she is exceedingly pained, Also Ekron--for her expectation dried up, And perished hath a king from Gaza, And Ashkelon doth not remain,
Zec 9:6 And dwelt hath a foreigner in Ashdod, And I have cut off the excellency of the Philistines.
Zec 9:7 And turned aside his blood from his mouth, His abominations from between his teeth, And he hath remained, even he, to our God, And he hath been as a leader in Judah, And Ekron as a Jebusite.
Zec 9:8 And I have pitched for My house a camp, Because of the passer through, and of the returner, And pass not through against them again doth an exactor, For, now, I have seen with My eyes.
Zec 9:9 Rejoice exceedingly, O daughter of Zion, Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem, Lo, thy King doth come to thee, Righteous--and saved is He, Afflicted--and riding on an ass, And on a colt--a son of she-asses.
Zec 9:10 And I have cut off the chariot from Ephraim, And the horse from Jerusalem, Yea, cut off hath been the bow of battle, And he hath spoken peace to nations, And his rule is from sea unto sea, And from the river unto the ends of earth.
Zec 9:11 Also thou--by the blood of thy covenant, I have sent thy prisoners out of the pit, There is no water in it.

Future but its kinda hard to explain without touching on the kenites........