The Trinity

[7thMoon]

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (ESV)

Plurality when discussing, with himself, making man in his image, which then becomes singular when the creative act is carried out. One being that is God that talks to himself in the plural. We this again in:

Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” (ESV)

Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.
Gen 11:7 Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech.” (ESV)

Isa 6:8 And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” Then I said, “Here I am! Send me.” (ESV)

Megillah 9a.12, 9a.14 contradicts this. ηλ is also the Aramaic word Elohim.

 

[Free]

If not Holy Spirits then they must be unholy Spirit sons of God?

What specifically are you addressing?

you said ''The doctrine of the Trinity explicitly states that there is only one God, but that he exists in three divine, coequal, coeternal persons. That is simply what Scripture states ''

where in scripture does it say ''that he exists in three divine, coequal, coeternal persons?

Does it need to?

 

[Free]

Correction, Arianism had its roots firmly in Origenism.

What is it you’re saying?

The Pre-existence is a doctrine that be littles mankind and the messiah.

The preexistence of the Son?

Megillah 9a.12, 9a.14 contradicts this. ηλ is also the Aramaic word Elohim.

I don’t understand any of what you say here. You need to be more specific and clear.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

The concept of God as a Trinity can be proved from the scriptures and does not need to be taken in faith. Scripture is both Old Testament and New Testament of course.

From 2 Timothy 3:16-17 “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

From 1 Thessalonians 5:21 “but test everything; hold fast what is good.”

First, recall what Christ tells the Samaritan woman in John 4:22-23 “You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.” Also, from Acts 4:12 “And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Hence, we are saved only through Jesus Christ who prior to his time on Earth as mortal and Divine was the Word. From John 1:1-3 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. Jesus Christ at his time on Earth was a Jew and yet Divine of course. Then resurrected and returned back to the Father in third heaven.

If you need further proof that Jesus Christ was Divine, let’s refer to Old Testament:

Zechariah 12:1,10 “The oracle of the word of the Lord concerning Israel: Thus declares the Lord, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him;” ““And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.” So, Jesus Christ is Lord for sure for Zechariah’s prophecy was fulfilled when Christ was crucified and then resurrected.

Is this Lord also God? Of course, from Psalm 7:1 “O Lord my God, in you do I take refuge; save me from all my pursuers and deliver me.”

So, first we showed that Jesus Christ is Lord and God. Now the question is what is God? From Psalm 110:1 “The Lord says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.” We already said Lord refers to God but here David refers to at least two persons that compose God. Also, Christ says in John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”

It appears from John 10:30 that God is one yet composed of at least two entities which are God the Father and God the Son of course. One asks now, is there any other divine entity in the composition of God? That is where the Holy Spirit is mentioned for Christ says in John 14:25-26 ““These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.”

There are more arguments to be made about why Holy Spirit is the third and final persona of God, but I leave if to Free to convince you further. That is all the time I can spare for now in writing.

Lastly, what I wanted to say is that from our mortal perspective, to attain immortality we must be saved and then resurrected at the last trump. To be saved we must repent of our sins (by acknowledging we have strayed from the way of the Father), believe the gospel (that we can only be saved through Christ) and then be sealed with the Holy Ghost (which seals our salvation).

When resurrected, we shall fully understand what God is. Until then, from a mortal’s perspective, Scripture proves that God is One and yet composed of three persona that have specific roles in our salvation.

I leave you with 1 Corinthians 13:12 “For now we see in a mirror dimly but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.”

 

[7thMoon]

What is it you’re saying?


The preexistence of the Son?

Pre-existence of souls.

I don’t understand any of what you say here. You need to be more specific and clear.

Many were like Tertullian in believing there was when he was not. Ireneus is another name. Athanasius' teaching was new.

 

[locust]

They aren't three parts, as though together they add up to God; each "person" is fully and truly God, making them coequal and coeternal.

odd the three different parts have three different designations so they can be identified

 

[locust]

What specifically are you addressing?


Does it need to?

it does when the claim is made that its in the Bible

 

[Milan Nikolic]

it does when the claim is made that its in the Bible

I think the message above has given enough examples.
I have already said, for Christians, the teaching of the Fathers of the Church is an important dogmatic teaching, and there the trinity of God is clearly explained.
Also, for someone to truly understand this teaching, it is necessary that they first believe in the Christian God.

 

[Milan Nikolic]

you speak of one God then you contradict yourself by saying he is really three gods

It's a matter of acceptance. Christians believe in one God in Three Persons, because the one and indivisible divinity is equal in all Three Persons. The Divine Persons, it is said, are permeating. With such an indivisible and one-essential Holy Trinity, we always talk about one God.

 

[Free]

Pre-existence of souls.


Many were like Tertullian in believing there was when he was not. Ireneus is another name. Athanasius' teaching was new.

I'm not following. What does any of this have to do with the Trinity? Again, you need to be clear about how this ties in to the discussion, particularly what I've said.

 

[Free]

odd the three different parts have three different designations so they can be identified

Why do you find it odd that three distinct persons would each be called something different in order to differentiate them? And, again, they aren't "parts" of a whole; each is the whole.

it does when the claim is made that its in the Bible

Does it really though? You asked: 'where in scripture does it say ''that he exists in three divine, coequal, coeternal persons?.'

What we see in Scripture is the following:

1. There was, is, and ever will be only one God.
2. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God.
3. The Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit and the Son is not the Holy Spirit.

That is what we have to make sense of. The logical conclusion is that the one God exists in three divine, coequal, coeternal persons.

 

[locust]

It's a matter of acceptance. Christians believe in one God in Three Persons, because the one and indivisible divinity is equal in all Three Persons. The Divine Persons, it is said, are permeating. With such an indivisible and one-essential Holy Trinity, we always talk about one God.

thats what false Christians believe

 

[Free]

thats what false Christians believe

It is historic, orthodox Christianity. It is what true Christians believe because it is what the Bible teaches, or at least it is what makes the best sense of everything God reveals about himself. Be very careful about putting down central tenets of the faith.

 

[locust]

It is historic, orthodox Christianity. It is what true Christians believe because it is what the Bible teaches, or at least it is what makes the best sense of everything God reveals about himself. Be very careful about putting down central tenets of the faith.

Bible does not teach that ,the churches teach that.
which did not happen till 200-300 years after jesus died

 

[Milan Nikolic]

thats what false Christians believe

Anyway, we have to follow what was handed down to us.
We have the Church that Christ built, as His Body.

Divisions in the Church were foreshadowed by Christ himself.
The chaos in which we live is not clear to many. The duty of Orthodoxy is to protect the Catholic order, while the duty of Catholicism is to portray the divine trinity. However, so much is disturbed that it will probably take many more years for some things to be reconciled. We believe in the promise of Christ that the Church will never perish.

 

[Milan Nikolic]

Bible does not teach that ,the churches teach that.
which did not happen till 200-300 years after jesus died

It is unclear why follow Christ, if you do not follow His promise that the Holy Spirit will establish the Church. That is why the Church is apostolic, that is why the Church is built up and grows.

 

[locust]

Anyway, we have to follow what was handed down to us.
We have the Church that Christ built, as His Body.

Divisions in the Church were foreshadowed by Christ himself.
The chaos in which we live is not clear to many. The duty of Orthodoxy is to protect the Catholic order, while the duty of Catholicism is to portray the divine trinity. However, so much is disturbed that it will probably take many more years for some things to be reconciled. We believe in the promise of Christ that the Church will never perish.

have to follow ?? is there a gun at your head ? if its wrong stand up for yourself

 

[Milan Nikolic]

Everything is permitted to you, but not everything is useful, Christ says.

 

[Free]

Bible does not teach that ,the churches teach that.
which did not happen till 200-300 years after jesus died

The Bible very clearly teaches the triune nature of God, which is why we see the foundations of the Trinity in early church writings beginning in the early second century, less than one hundred years after Jesus’s death.

 

[locust]

Constantine , the Roman emperor, from AD 306 to 337 had more to do with what you may believe than you may know.