The Trinity

[Milan Nikolic]

Even the contemporaries of early Christianity themselves testify that in theological discussions, the Holy Spirit has a very ,,miserable position". But so many centuries have passed, so many times has faith been agreed upon on a common level, that much has become clear. We have had all these and similar discussions in church history.

The Church confesses that the Holy Spirit is confessed and glorified together with the Father and the Son. This is a symbol of the faith of the Church of Christ. Such a thing is no longer questioned. This Orthodox faith has had an exceptional development. For example, Saint Maximus the Confessor brings such a teaching that it is only now sufficiently clear.

The Holy Apostles were the first to prove that they truly believe in God who is always active. This action, as has been proven, is from several possibilities and acts on the entire cosmos simultaneously.. We are all in some kind of divine providence. Today, it is perhaps existentially important to know cosmology, like quantum physics, along with theology.

 

[jonathanbrickman0000]

The Comforter is not an it. He is a He, sent by Christ the Lord in His place, since He left. Christ the Lord is not in this world today: the Comforter is, and He is in us, and we are in Him, and we are one only through Him.

If you love Me, keep My commands, and I will ask the Father, and He will give to you another Comforter, that He may remain with you throughout the age: the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it does not see nor know [this] One, and you know [this] One, because [this] One remains with you, and will be in you.
John 14:15-17

 

[Randy]

Even the contemporaries of early Christianity themselves testify that in theological discussions, the Holy Spirit has a very ,,miserable position". But so many centuries have passed, so many times has faith been agreed upon on a common level, that much has become clear. We have had all these and similar discussions in church history.

The Church confesses that the Holy Spirit is confessed and glorified together with the Father and the Son. This is a symbol of the faith of the Church of Christ. Such a thing is no longer questioned. This Orthodox faith has had an exceptional development. For example, Saint Maximus the Confessor brings such a teaching that it is only now sufficiently clear.

The Holy Apostles were the first to prove that they truly believe in God who is always active. This action, as has been proven, is from several possibilities and acts on the entire cosmos simultaneously.. We are all in some kind of divine providence. Today, it is perhaps existentially important to know cosmology, like quantum physics, along with theology.

The Host of heaven failed to confess what you state. To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb. Paul -one God the Father and one lord Jesus Christ. Jesus to the Father -know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. Jesus- me and the Father will make our home with you. That's 2 person's

It's not a denial of the Spirit nor nature of that Spirit. It's a denial of a 3rd distinct person. You should see the person of the Father in His Spirit and in us the person of the Son for the Father sends His Spirit in Jesus's name.

You have a hint here from Jesus Himself.
Matthew 10:20

 

[Milan Nikolic]

You are not fair when you mention two persons, and conclude that one person is the true God. The topic of the Holy Trinity has a transcendental level, without the influence of any creation, even the firstborn of creation, as you consider Jesus.

Christians believe that the person of the Son of God is equally eternal and honorable with the person of the Father, as well as with the person of the Holy Spirit. Many are deceived that this is not the teaching about One God, but in fact it is. It is just that we are in a kind of fallen state and have dilemmas about it.

That's why it's important to have a broader dialogue about what we can agree on. The fact is that theology will not be bypassed by the most important mathematical result in physics. Proof of the true „quantum indeterminacy“ and „nonlocality“ of the cosmos. We can talk about it.

 

[JLB]

The Father said He would pour out His Spirit as you were shown. I believe Him.

My Bible says the Son pours out the Holy Spirit.

“And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
Joel 2:28-29


For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
Acts 2:15-18

It is the Spirit of Christ speaking through the prophet Joel.
See 1 Peter 1:10-12


This is called the baptism with the Holy Spirit.


I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:8


The Spirit is poured out by Jesus yet proceeds from the Father, while being sent in His name.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
John 14:26


Also notice how the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ are intrinsically connected as One, in the following verse.

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9

 

[Milan Nikolic]

And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness.
Indeed, God revealed this from Moses himself. In order not to deviate anywhere, let us clearly follow the teaching of the Holy Trinity.
There is no greater philosophical legacy in the world than that.

 

[jonathanbrickman0000]

I shall avoid using words to describe God, that God has not used to describe Himself.

 

[Free]

The Host of heaven failed to confess what you state. To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb. Paul -one God the Father and one lord Jesus Christ. Jesus to the Father -know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. Jesus- me and the Father will make our home with you. That's 2 person's

It's not a denial of the Spirit nor nature of that Spirit. It's a denial of a 3rd distinct person. You should see the person of the Father in His Spirit and in us the person of the Son for the Father sends His Spirit in Jesus's name.

You have a hint here from Jesus Himself.
Matthew 10:20

Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. (ESV)
...
Joh 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." (ESV)

Joh 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. (ESV)

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Joh 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;
Joh 16:10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer;
Joh 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
Joh 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (ESV)

The "Helper" is clearly the Holy Spirit, who is “another Helper.” That implies both that Jesus is the first “Helper” and that the Holy Spirit is one who is like him but distinct from him. That is the plain reading of the text and it implies personhood. For example, if I'm at someone's house and have a piece of cake for dessert, which I eat, and then am asked if I want another piece, I fully expect to get a different piece of the same cake, unless some further qualification is made.

And, what is a "Helper"? When we look at the Greek, it is the word parakletos, which means not only "helper, counselor, comforter, advocate;" all of which either are or can be actions of persons. The meaning of advocate is important since persons advocate on behalf of other persons; "its" cannot advocate for anyone or anything.

Pay close attention to the actions of this other Helper: teaches; brings things to remembrance; testifies; convicts. These are actions of personal agency, not an "it." And, Jesus says it is for their advantage that he leaves and sends this Advocate. How is it, then, that having an "it" would be to their advantage? Could a chair, rock, or impersonal power do any of these things or be of an advantage when Jesus left?

Parakletos is used only five times in the NT. In addition to the above four instances in John, the fifth is also by John here, for "advocate":

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

Jesus is said, by John, to be an advocate. It is not insignificant, then, that John records Jesus saying that he will send "another parakletos." Jesus was the first parakletos, and remains so, but in John’s gospel he was returning to the Father and the disciples still needed much help and guidance. It all points to the Spirit being a person and also being truly God, in the same way Jesus is truly God.

An advocate can only be a person. Here is how parakletos is defined:

NAS Word Usage - Total: 5

1. summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
1. one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
2. one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor
1. of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins
3. in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant
1. of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/parakletos.html]

It's strongly implied that the Holy Spirit is a person, and so it can only be that he is also truly God, the same as the Father and as the Son.

Matt 12:31-32--blaspheming the Holy Spirit is an eternal sin, while blasphemy against Jesus is not. It's hard to understand how, according to your position, blaspheming a non-person is a greater sin than blaspheming a person (the Son of God no less).

Matt 28:19--singular name, three persons, one God.

Interestingly, the Holy Spirit is not only referred to as the Spirit of God, but also the Spirit of Christ or the Son or Jesus (Acts 16:6-7; Rom 8:9; Gal 4:6; Phil 1:19; 1 Pet 1:11). This shows the nearness and intimacy of the three persons.

The Holy Spirit:

Acts: Matt 4:1; Acts 8:39, 16:7
Listens: John 16:13
Speaks: John 16:13-15; Acts 1:16, 10:19, 11:12, 11:28, 13:2, 15:28; 1 Tim 4:1; Heb 3:7
Can be lied to: Acts 5:3, which is the same as lying to God (5:9)
Bears witness: Rom 8:16; Heb 10:15; 1 John 5:6
Helps, intercedes, and searches: John 14:16, 15:26, 16:7; Rom 8:26-27; 1 Cor 2:10
Teaches: Luke 12:12; John 16:13; 1 Cor 2:13
Gives gifts: Acts 20:28; 1 Cor 12:11; Heb 2:4
Leads: John 16:13; Gal 5:18, Heb 9:8
Can be grieved: Eph 4:30
Can be outraged: Heb 10:29
Can be blasphemed: Matt 12:31-32
Convicts: John 16:8-11

These are all actions of personal agency. And on it goes.

Given the above, I would say that since we know the Father and the Son are distinct persons yet both truly God, it necessarily follows that the Holy Spirit is a distinct person that is also truly God. And since know there is only God, the Trinity is the best explanation.

 

[Randy]

Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. (ESV)
...
Joh 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." (ESV)

Joh 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. (ESV)

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Joh 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;
Joh 16:10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer;
Joh 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
Joh 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (ESV)

The "Helper" is clearly the Holy Spirit, who is “another Helper.” That implies both that Jesus is the first “Helper” and that the Holy Spirit is one who is like him but distinct from him. That is the plain reading of the text and it implies personhood. For example, if I'm at someone's house and have a piece of cake for dessert, which I eat, and then am asked if I want another piece, I fully expect to get a different piece of the same cake, unless some further qualification is made.

And, what is a "Helper"? When we look at the Greek, it is the word parakletos, which means not only "helper, counselor, comforter, advocate;" all of which either are or can be actions of persons. The meaning of advocate is important since persons advocate on behalf of other persons; "its" cannot advocate for anyone or anything.

Pay close attention to the actions of this other Helper: teaches; brings things to remembrance; testifies; convicts. These are actions of personal agency, not an "it." And, Jesus says it is for their advantage that he leaves and sends this Advocate. How is it, then, that having an "it" would be to their advantage? Could a chair, rock, or impersonal power do any of these things or be of an advantage when Jesus left?

Parakletos is used only five times in the NT. In addition to the above four instances in John, the fifth is also by John here, for "advocate":

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

Jesus is said, by John, to be an advocate. It is not insignificant, then, that John records Jesus saying that he will send "another parakletos." Jesus was the first parakletos, and remains so, but in John’s gospel he was returning to the Father and the disciples still needed much help and guidance. It all points to the Spirit being a person and also being truly God, in the same way Jesus is truly God.

An advocate can only be a person. Here is how parakletos is defined:

NAS Word Usage - Total: 5

1. summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
1. one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
2. one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor
1. of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins
3. in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant
1. of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/parakletos.html]

It's strongly implied that the Holy Spirit is a person, and so it can only be that he is also truly God, the same as the Father and as the Son.

Matt 12:31-32--blaspheming the Holy Spirit is an eternal sin, while blasphemy against Jesus is not. It's hard to understand how, according to your position, blaspheming a non-person is a greater sin than blaspheming a person (the Son of God no less).

Matt 28:19--singular name, three persons, one God.

Interestingly, the Holy Spirit is not only referred to as the Spirit of God, but also the Spirit of Christ or the Son or Jesus (Acts 16:6-7; Rom 8:9; Gal 4:6; Phil 1:19; 1 Pet 1:11). This shows the nearness and intimacy of the three persons.

The Holy Spirit:

Acts: Matt 4:1; Acts 8:39, 16:7
Listens: John 16:13
Speaks: John 16:13-15; Acts 1:16, 10:19, 11:12, 11:28, 13:2, 15:28; 1 Tim 4:1; Heb 3:7
Can be lied to: Acts 5:3, which is the same as lying to God (5:9)
Bears witness: Rom 8:16; Heb 10:15; 1 John 5:6
Helps, intercedes, and searches: John 14:16, 15:26, 16:7; Rom 8:26-27; 1 Cor 2:10
Teaches: Luke 12:12; John 16:13; 1 Cor 2:13
Gives gifts: Acts 20:28; 1 Cor 12:11; Heb 2:4
Leads: John 16:13; Gal 5:18, Heb 9:8
Can be grieved: Eph 4:30
Can be outraged: Heb 10:29
Can be blasphemed: Matt 12:31-32
Convicts: John 16:8-11

These are all actions of personal agency. And on it goes.

Given the above, I would say that since we know the Father and the Son are distinct persons yet both truly God, it necessarily follows that the Holy Spirit is a distinct person that is also truly God. And since know there is only God, the Trinity is the best explanation.

I have the Spirit of Christ in me. As shown, the Fathers Spirit sent in Jesus name, the Spirit He received from the Father.

The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

There is no 3rd person who came on His own.

 

[Randy]

My Bible says the Son pours out the Holy Spirit.

“And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
Joel 2:28-29


For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
Acts 2:15-18

It is the Spirit of Christ speaking through the prophet Joel.
See 1 Peter 1:10-12


This is called the baptism with the Holy Spirit.


I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:8


The Spirit is poured out by Jesus yet proceeds from the Father, while being sent in His name.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
John 14:26


Also notice how the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ are intrinsically connected as One, in the following verse.

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9

the Bible didn't state the Spirit proceeds from Jesus. You did. Jesus Himself referred to that gift of God as the Fathers promise.

Why would Jesus receive His own Spirit from the Father?

The Father sent the Spirit in Jesus name.

 

[Randy]

You are not fair when you mention two persons, and conclude that one person is the true God. The topic of the Holy Trinity has a transcendental level, without the influence of any creation, even the firstborn of creation, as you consider Jesus.

Christians believe that the person of the Son of God is equally eternal and honorable with the person of the Father, as well as with the person of the Holy Spirit. Many are deceived that this is not the teaching about One God, but in fact it is. It is just that we are in a kind of fallen state and have dilemmas about it.

That's why it's important to have a broader dialogue about what we can agree on. The fact is that theology will not be bypassed by the most important mathematical result in physics. Proof of the true „quantum indeterminacy“ and „nonlocality“ of the cosmos. We can talk about it.

I stated Jesus is all that the Father is and in that context He is God. There is only one God the Father. Jesus is His Christ our Lord.

 

[Milan Nikolic]

Randy

By saying that the Son is not truly God as the Father is truly God, you are actually committing a grave offense against the meaning of faith in Christ. The Church has already dealt with such a teaching during the First Ecumenical Council in 325. You may believe as a hobby, you may be truly convinced, but the arguments show that the way you believe has been rejected in the church's confession of faith.