When Jesus said he came down from heaven, it is a metaphor or parable, which is basically the same thing.
He explains it by saying that the words he speaks are spirit and truth and life.
He is not instructing his disciples to start gnawing on his flesh and sucking out his blood like vampires and canibals.
This simply shows how incompetent the RCC is in developing their doctrines. They completely misunderstand the words of scripture. That’s why the things they teach and the words and language they use are not the things, words and language that is found in scripture.
It seems you’ve fallen into their misunderstandings and nonsense when you post scripture to “prove” Jesus was in heaven before he supposedly planted himself in the womb of Mary because he said he came down from heaven.
This shows that you lack correct understanding just as the RCC.
You're still dodging and doing the very thing I pointed out:
It requires intelligence and scripture knowledge in order to correctly understand the things spoken by Jesus.
Agreed, but you're twisting the obvious.
It is a cop out when people accept nonsensical doctrine and then claim those things are not to be reasonably understood or comprehended as the RCC claims with their doctrine of transubstantiation and Trinity.
It's a cop out when one continually dodges verses which are too difficult to fit in their position.
The words, doctrines and work of Christ are not his own. He very clearly states this throughout the gospels.
Therefore, the words, doctrines and work he did and does, comes from above.
Christ is simply pointing to his God and Father as the originator and source and power and authority of all the words, doctrines and work he does when he says he came down from heaven.
This is a serious twisting of Scripture. You're trying to make everything metaphor that doesn't fit your theology, rather than letting Scripture speak for itself. From the
Joh 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except
he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
Joh 6:62 Then what if you were to see
the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?
Joh 8:14 Jesus answered, “Even if I do bear witness about myself, my testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going, but
you do not know where I come from or where I am going.
...
Joh 8:23 He said to them, “You are from below;
I am from above. You are of this world;
I am not of this world.
...
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you,
before Abraham was, I am.”
Joh 16:28
I came from the Father and have come into the world, and now I am leaving the world and going to the Father.”
Joh 16:29 His disciples said, “Ah, now you are speaking plainly and not using figurative speech!
Joh 16:30 Now we know that you know all things and do not need anyone to question you;
this is why we believe that you came from God.”
Joh 17:24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me
because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
There is only one plain meaning of these texts--Jesus, as the Son, the Word, preexisted with the Father. If not, Jesus lied and led the disciples astray, since they understood the plain meaning of what was said.
John understood the plain nature of the claims:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
...
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and
the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.
...
Joh 1:14 And
the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 3:31
He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way.
He who comes from heaven is above all.
As did Paul:
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ,
through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
2Co 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that
though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.
Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come,
God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,
Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who,
though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but
emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And
being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Col 1:16 For
by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—
all things were created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 And
he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
As did the writer of Hebrews:
Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things,
through whom also he created the world.
...
Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”
(All ESV.)
If Jesus did not preexist for all "eternity past," then every single verse above is false.
