popsthebuilder
Member
Please allow me to address any points you may have on her behalf please.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The Trinity
- Thread starter netchaplain
- Start date
I don't believe those verses prove anything about triune god and deny Jesus' own word of His Father is Jesus' God.
netchaplain
Member
Hi, and appreciate the reply! The fact that the Trinity is the Three Deities is overwhelmingly present in Scripture, and I think many misunderstand the phrase "these Three are one (1Jo 5:7)." These being one is in the sense of these Three are in agreement on everything. One in unity, Three in beings!
Monotheism is the belief their is one God, hence He is the only God, Who is the Father (Jhn 20:17). When Jesus is mentioned as being God and Father (Isa 9:6), it is in the sense of representation of God the Father. Many try to say Jesus is also God and Father, but Scripture more abundantly teaches us to esteem Christ as the Son of God and Son of the Father, mostly for the sake of the importance of Him being the Savoir God sent.
The importance of the occasional mention of Christ as the representative of God (Col 2:9) is that Scripture teaches that the Lord Jesus has the same power and essence as the Father (Phl 2:6), but that the Father is greater in authority than He. The Triune authority in order of priority is the Father (sent the Son); the Son (sent the Spirit from the Father); the Holy Spirit, Who is the Creator of the believer's rebirth, and Author of the Word of God. the Father and the Son does everything through the power of Their Spirit.
Hope I wasn't to winded on this reply, but I was taking opportunity to share in some spiritual-growth truths!
God's blessings to your Family!
popsthebuilder
Member
"The fact that the Trinity is the Three Deities"
Uhm. The bible.is clear that there is one GOD, Which is spirit. Not three beings or three persons or three persona, but aone Spirit.
One GOD; one deity, not three gods, not three deities. Such is expressly spoken against in scripture, as is making God in the image or likeness of man.
Same power!? No sir; I do not agree at all there. Jesus prayed to GOD, and asked GOD questions and even admitted that GOD was above Him, and the only One privy to certain info and power. Scripture goes further and is quite clear as to who received power and who gave it.
Everything one ever knows of GOD, he knows due to the very Spirit of GOD. The very same Spirit that filled GOD'S Christ; (anointed)
You are free to address any post by anyone.
popsthebuilder
Member
Thank you.
netchaplain
Member
It's ok that we disagree about the Trinity, it is not a salvation issue but for spiritual growth.
popsthebuilder
Member
Seems to me that contending that the physical human body of the Christ was ever GOD almighty is to say that the body of Christ today could well be conflated with GOD almighty. Such could easily lead to great atrocities and abomination.
It is the Spirit that gives life. It is a salvific issue in my opinion.
According to Jesus, "God is one" is the most important commandment. And claims that His Father is His God and our God. So God and Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are multiple Gods. It is against Jesus' word.
Since Jesus claims it is the most important commandment, It is clear it is a salvation issue.
Do you agree?
That "God is one" according to Jesus is a statement of monotheism (a word that doesn't appear in the Bible either), not a statement of the nature of God (it has nothing to do with whether or not he is triune).
That Jesus is God is central to salvation (John 8:24; Rom 10:9-13), but I'm hesitant to say belief in the Trinity is. Although, since Jesus is God, it must be made clear that he isn't the Father, so it kind of leads directly to the Trinity.
I don't believe Trinity doctrine harmonizes with Jesus' own word.
I already stated with the scripture.
I abide by what Jesus says.
I will not budge.
Let's not go into a circular argument over and over.
It is your word against mine.
God is the Judge who is in the wrong.
blessings.
It does, quite well.
You abide by only one thing Jesus said, taking it out of context. I have given other things Jesus said which prove that he thought of himself as the I Am.
I know, because you don’t want to do proper study, and that’s unfortunate.
It’s your word against God’s word.
He certainly is.
popsthebuilder
Member
It really doesn't though.
It is the Spirit of GOD that is GOD, as GOD is spirit and GOD is one, all encompassing, all knowing, all powerful GOD. There is One Spirit. It is this same Holy Spirit of GOD that Jesus was anointed with. It is the Spirit of GOD that is Christ. The flesh profits nothing. Even today; what is it that makes up the body of Christ? Is it not believers as a whole that make up the boC? And is it not by what that body produces that we know of whom it belongs? GOD and Christ live in the believer. There aren't three GODS living within the heart and mind of the believer. There is One Spirit.
It is the very Spirit of GOD that fills the temple, making that vessel the Holy Temple of GOD. A vessel devoid of contents is just an empty vessel.
These are the quote you or any trins cannot and did not debunk:
John 20:17
John 20:17
Jesus clearly says who the God is which obviously you have been disregarding.
These are Jesus' prayers to His God, His Father.
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It does. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are repeatedly talked about as distinct persons. That Jesus is God is without question; that is the whole point of John 1:1-18. Yet, he isn’t the Father or the Holy Spirit and the Father isn’t the Holy Spirit. And, we know there is only one God.
Yes, the Holy Spirit is God, but so is the Father and the Son.
There is one Holy Spirit that came to rest on Jesus at his baptism, at which time the Father spoke from heaven. Three persons, one God.
The Christ is the Son, not the Holy Spirit. Jesus certainly didn't think he was the Holy Spirit, seeing himself as quite distinct from him:
Luk 24:49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.” (ESV)
What is that promise that Jesus is sending?
Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. (ESV)
Joh 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. (ESV)
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Joh 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;
Joh 16:10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer;
Joh 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
Joh 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (ESV)
What does any of this have to do with the Trinity?
God and Christ? That's two Gods for you.
There are three persons in the one God, one of them being the Holy Spirit, the primary one spoken of, actually, as that is his function in the life of the believer.
Okay, but what does this have to do with the Trinity?
Here is more about Jesus being the Son, not the God:
Mark 13:32 (New International Version)
32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
John 8:28-29 (New International Version)
28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."
John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
John 17
1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
1 John 5:9 (King James Version)
9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
Acts 4:30 (New International Version)
30Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."
there are more to come.
Mark 13:32 (New International Version)
32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
John 8:28-29 (New International Version)
28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."
John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
John 17
1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
1 John 5:9 (King James Version)
9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
Acts 4:30 (New International Version)
30Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."
there are more to come.
As I said previously, you’re only providing verses that speak to his humanity, which no Trinitarian would deny. The problem is that anti-Trinitarians avoid or reinterpret, without basis, those that speak to his deity.
John 1:1-18 and Phil 2:5-8 are key.
popsthebuilder
Member
Not as distinct and certainly not as persons or different persona
The Word was GOD, and then became man. As man the Word was not GOD. Scripture is very clear that GOD is not man, and that we aren't to make GOD in the image of man. Scripture is also clear that the Word/ Christ received back HIS power and glory after ascending back up the right hand of GOD.
GOD is one, not three separate anything.
The Holy Spirit of GOD is the very Spirit of the FATHER. The Spirit of the Father which is GOD, is also what Jesus was anointed with. Still one Spirit. Still one GOD.
Are you claiming the Spirit of the FATHER isn't the FATHER, or are you denying that the Spirit of GOD is the very means my which all GOD'S people have ever cared me to know GOD or hear GOD? Show with scripture, a singular act carried out by GOD, known to man, that was not done by and through the Spirit and Word of GOD please.
The distinction is that Jesus was mortal man and the Spirit that filled Him was and is GOD.
Power from on high denotes the power/ Spirit of GOD from GOD/ the FATHER.
Again; I think the distinction is between the flesh and Spirit. "Another" can be seen as "one" and "helper" can be understood as "intercessor". How many intercessors are there between man and GOD? One; Christ/ the Spirit of GOD.
A doctrine shouldn't cause that which is contrary to the nature and will of GOD.
No, it's not. Christ is the Spirit/ Word of GOD. GOD is also the Spirit and Word. Same one Spirit. Same singular GOD. One being.
No, GOD doesn't change. And GOD doesn't have different persona. The Spirit of GOD filled HIS Christ. That doesn't make thean Jesus coequal or coeternal with the Spirit which is GOD. Again l; the word became flesh, set aside his glory and became a man in every way. Man is not GOD.
Again; I Personally do not think that a doctrine that truthfully describes the very nature of GOD would also be a doctrine that has grand potential for misdirecting the masses. Nor do I think that those who devised such a doctrine; if true; would also be those hell bent on the words and deeds that are wholly contrary to the teachings of the Christ of GOD. I try not to compartmentalize things of faith. I believe a concise whole harmonious picture is good sign that the doctrines one holds to are sound. Yet still; we should always check our doctrines.