The True Church Are You In It ?

[WIP]

Or, even if it is not corporate worship, do you gather with other believers on a regular basis in someone's home or other place of gathering?

 

[tim-from-pa]

Or, even if it is not corporate worship, do you gather with other believers on a regular basis in someone's home or other place of gathering?

I believed Phil already answered that...

Of course i do. I fellowship all the time . You are missing my point , it is the emotional attachment to a set of dogma and systematic worship that most churches expect you to adhere to. The purpose of the post is to point out that you belong to Jesus Christ not a church there is a total difference. I enjoy fellowship with many brothers and sisters around the world.

Despite the fact I don't see eye-to-eye on some of his beliefs, I can see where he's coming from. My church is meeting with several people in a home setting once a week. Bible study goes from 2-3 hours which is about twice the time spent at an average Protestant liturgical service per week, and probably learning more exponentially in such a setting.

And yes, I left because I got tired of the traditions of men, and the Greek philosophy mixed in with biblical understanding, thus the reason I have "no" as a Christian on my profile. (Edited, ToS 2.4, disrespectful to church going Christians. Obadiah) So if we believe what we do, it's not because we were just told that. Chances are, we have a reason.

 

[Dustoftheearth]

I agree with Phil (I think)

I will/do meet with other Christians, but I will not belong to an unbiblical man made church

 

[WIP]

Define what an "unbiblical man-made church" is, please. And then I would like to hear your definition of a Biblical church and please notice I used lower case in the word church.

 

[stovebolts]

I agree with Phil (I think)

I will/do meet with other Christians, but I will not belong to an unbiblical man made church

Hello,

I'm hoping that what I write comes across as something acceptable as it's something I've had to work through myself and something I've observed through the years.

First, lets define the Church. The Church is the full body of Christ. Each member is "in Christ" and Christ is "in them". How this occurs is debatable depending on ones grasp or bent toward scripture. So, for the sake of argument, those "In Christ" and "Christ in them" make up the Church. Agreed?

"Church" is defined as the Body of Christ.
"church" is defined as a local assembly of believers.

Now then, the Church is described as the Body and each body can serve a different function, but they are still a part of the body. One visual thing to note about different body parts is that not each part looks like the other. Also, one part does not insist that the other parts look like it does. No, a healthy body allows other parts of the body to be just as they are, and in return, each compliments the other.

This can be clearly seen in the NT writings. Each "church" looked a lot different than the other. For example, the church in Corinth looked radically different than the church in Jerusalem as did the church in Antioch, Rome etc.. Yet the end goal that Paul strived so hard to accomplish was a unity among the Church.

In my opinion, we do Christ a dis-service when we try to divide the body or we try to conform the Church to look like how we perceive the church to be. You see, unity is not uniformity. If it were, Paul would have forced his view upon Peter and Mark or vice versa. But that's not what happened. No, Paul understood that sometimes the Church looked Jewish, and sometimes the Church looked worse than a heathen. But what Paul was able to see, was Christ and he held that hope that each member and each community that made up the full body of the Church would grow and mature... and I kinda like that approach.

So, if you ask me, yeah, I think that we have some brothers and Sisters in the RCC, Mormon, J.W. and yes, even the 7th day Adventists. Maybe even one or two that are Baptist lol! Does that mean I agree with their doctrines? Absolutely not. Some of them I strictly oppose. But do I go as far as to be the judge of all of it's members? Paul didn't set himself up as judge to the church in Corinth and those people were far from what others might deem "the Church" if your following me so far.

.02

 

[Willie T]

Hello,

I'm hoping that what I write comes across as something acceptable as it's something I've had to work through myself and something I've observed through the years.

First, lets define the Church. The Church is the full body of Christ. Each member is "in Christ" and Christ is "in them". How this occurs is debatable depending on ones grasp or bent toward scripture. So, for the sake of argument, those "In Christ" and "Christ in them" make up the Church. Agreed?

"Church" is defined as the Body of Christ.
"church" is defined as a local assembly of believers.

Now then, the Church is described as the Body and each body can serve a different function, but they are still a part of the body. One visual thing to note about different body parts is that not each part looks like the other. Also, one part does not insist that the other parts look like it does. No, a healthy body allows other parts of the body to be just as they are, and in return, each compliments the other.

This can be clearly seen in the NT writings. Each "church" looked a lot different than the other. For example, the church in Corinth looked radically different than the church in Jerusalem as did the church in Antioch, Rome etc.. Yet the end goal that Paul strived so hard to accomplish was a unity among the Church.

In my opinion, we do Christ a dis-service when we try to divide the body or we try to conform the Church to look like how we perceive the church to be. You see, unity is not uniformity. If it were, Paul would have forced his view upon Peter and Mark or vice versa. But that's not what happened. No, Paul understood that sometimes the Church looked Jewish, and sometimes the Church looked worse than a heathen. But what Paul was able to see, was Christ and he held that hope that each member and each community that made up the full body of the Church would grow and mature... and I kinda like that approach.

So, if you ask me, yeah, I think that we have some brothers and Sisters in the RCC, Mormon, J.W. and yes, even the 7th day Adventists. Maybe even one or two that are Baptist lol! Does that mean I agree with their doctrines? Absolutely not. Some of them I strictly oppose. But do I go as far as to be the judge of all of it's members? Paul didn't set himself up as judge to the church in Corinth and those people were far from what others might deem "the Church" if your following me so far.

.02

Sounds to me that your thinking is not too far from God's intent......................... except that we've added discrimination, attitude, and hatred,

 

[Dustoftheearth]

Hello,

I'm hoping that what I write comes across as something acceptable as it's something I've had to work through myself and something I've observed through the years.

First, lets define the Church. The Church is the full body of Christ. Each member is "in Christ" and Christ is "in them". How this occurs is debatable depending on ones grasp or bent toward scripture. So, for the sake of argument, those "In Christ" and "Christ in them" make up the Church. Agreed?

"Church" is defined as the Body of Christ.
"church" is defined as a local assembly of believers.

Now then, the Church is described as the Body and each body can serve a different function, but they are still a part of the body. One visual thing to note about different body parts is that not each part looks like the other. Also, one part does not insist that the other parts look like it does. No, a healthy body allows other parts of the body to be just as they are, and in return, each compliments the other.

This can be clearly seen in the NT writings. Each "church" looked a lot different than the other. For example, the church in Corinth looked radically different than the church in Jerusalem as did the church in Antioch, Rome etc.. Yet the end goal that Paul strived so hard to accomplish was a unity among the Church.

In my opinion, we do Christ a dis-service when we try to divide the body or we try to conform the Church to look like how we perceive the church to be. You see, unity is not uniformity. If it were, Paul would have forced his view upon Peter and Mark or vice versa. But that's not what happened. No, Paul understood that sometimes the Church looked Jewish, and sometimes the Church looked worse than a heathen. But what Paul was able to see, was Christ and he held that hope that each member and each community that made up the full body of the Church would grow and mature... and I kinda like that approach.

So, if you ask me, yeah, I think that we have some brothers and Sisters in the RCC, Mormon, J.W. and yes, even the 7th day Adventists. Maybe even one or two that are Baptist lol! Does that mean I agree with their doctrines? Absolutely not. Some of them I strictly oppose. But do I go as far as to be the judge of all of it's members? Paul didn't set himself up as judge to the church in Corinth and those people were far from what others might deem "the Church" if your following me so far.

.02

Hi

I pretty much agree with your points. I do not judge ‘all’ the members, but the ‘organisation’

Would you ever join the RCc, Mormon, JW or 7th day Adventist as some sort of obedience to the ‘let us not stop meeting together’?

There is One Church, and it is established locally. There are not the many local churches, nor is there any large national church/movement etc.:

The local Church is not overseen by some pastor, vicar, priest, father etc.. but is overseen by a group of Elders, that may have the gift of pastor/teacher, apostle, prophet, evangelist or any of the other many gifts given. There is no moral community standing required to be a pastor/teacher, apostle, prophet, evangelist etc.: as these are ‘gifts’ given by the Holy Spirit to whom it pleases Him to give. The moral community standing required, is for to be an Elder.

These gifts are given to the edification and building up of the whole local body of believers. To minister these gifts to a smaller selected few, is to defraud the rest of the body of believers in that locality. We may also be starved of the ministry of the gifts, from those gathered in other of the many local churches.

 

[Free]

Since phil seems to have left the building, I will state some things that he may or may not disagree with.

Going to church is biblical. We are commanded to meet regularly with believers and to not do so is unbiblical. Further, "belonging to Jesus" and "belonging to a church" are not necessarily mutually exclusive. For one, to say that we either "belong to Jesus" or "belong to a church" is to imply that Jesus has nothing to do with a given church, or any church for that matter, despite him being the Head of the Church. Also, one most certainly can belong to Jesus and belong to a church. That is, in fact, the biblical model.

I was hoping for some answers to my questions so we could get some clarity and further the discussion but it doesn't seem like any will be forth coming.

 

[Free]

So, if you ask me, yeah, I think that we have some brothers and Sisters in the RCC, Mormon, J.W. and yes, even the 7th day Adventists.

My only problem with this is that doctrinally speaking, the JW and Mormon belief systems are not Christian, so it becomes a bit dangerous to suggest that there could be Christians among them. I suppose it could be possible but if there are, they really ought to come out from them.

 

[jeff77]

I think there probably are some people in the Mormon and JW church that have found the truth and maybe they are in an in-between stage where they are still trying to decide if they want to leave the church or not? It may be difficult for some especially if the rest of their family is a JW. I know of a highschool age girl who grew up in the JW church but changed to Christianity and did this openly to her parents. She said that since she is still living in their house that she is required to attend the JW church but they have a separate room for her and others like her to sit in during the sermons.

 

[Willie T]

I think there probably are some people in the Mormon and JW church that have found the truth and maybe they are in an in-between stage where they are still trying to decide if they want to leave the church or not? It may be difficult for some especially if the rest of their family is a JW. I know of a highschool age girl who grew up in the JW church but changed to Christianity and did this openly to her parents. She said that since she is still living in their house that she is required to attend the JW church but they have a separate room for her and others like her to sit in during the sermons.

That is cruel, and.... pretty sick.

 

[Free]

I think there probably are some people in the Mormon and JW church that have found the truth and maybe they are in an in-between stage where they are still trying to decide if they want to leave the church or not? It may be difficult for some especially if the rest of their family is a JW. I know of a highschool age girl who grew up in the JW church but changed to Christianity and did this openly to her parents. She said that since she is still living in their house that she is required to attend the JW church but they have a separate room for her and others like her to sit in during the sermons.

Yes, I suppose that could be case. Those two sure don't make it easy on anyone who wants to leave or has left.

 

[reba]

Hello,

I'm hoping that what I write comes across as something acceptable as it's something I've had to work through myself and something I've observed through the years.

02

 

[GrannyJ]

I do find it sad that there are so many denominations, and that so much time is wasted by believers in trying to convince other believers of the rightness of their own particular doctrine, when we should be spending our time spreading the love of Christ into a rather rotten world.

I have often wondered why God allows this to be so. Recently I came to the conclusion that since every person is different, God has allowed this situation, as different churches suit different people. I live in a country where the majority of the people are rather flamboyant, noisy and colourful. They are therefore comfortable in churches where there is a lot of noise and drama. On the other hand, I prefer to worship God quietly and in an orderly manner.

So let's accept our brothers and sisters for who they are, even if they are not the same as us. I believe there are Christians in almost every church, and hypocrites in almost every church.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I have often wondered why God allows this to be so. Recently I came to the conclusion that since every person is different, God has allowed this situation, as different churches suit different people.

But he also allows it to see who has God's approval:

"19 For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you." (1 Corinthians 11:19 NAS)

This means two things to me:

1. Our doctrine can reveal if we actually belong to God in salvation. Obviously, an opposing doctrine that teaches salvation outside of Christ quickly reveals that God's stamp of approval in salvation is probably not on the person who brings it. This is what John explains to the church in 1 John 2.
2. How we handle the strife of differing doctrines shows if we are actually walking in the pleasing fruit of the Spirit in real fellowship with God, or not. When someone chews your head off or insults you because you have a different doctrine than them about something, their relationship with God is suspect, not necessarily their doctrine is suspect, but whether or not they are actually in manifest fellowship with the God of their salvation, or not. We are to avoid those in the church who do not walk in manifest fellowship with God (1 Corinthians 5:11 NAS). How they treat you in doctrinal disputes is one way we can discern who those are.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That is cruel, and.... pretty sick.

Which? Jeff's opinion, or putting apostates in the JW church in their own little room?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think there probably are some people in the Mormon and JW church that have found the truth and maybe they are in an in-between stage where they are still trying to decide if they want to leave the church or not?

This is one of the things I learned as I've been growing up in the Lord. We can't categorically assign all JW's and Mormons to the status of condemned unbeliever simply because they attend those churches. It's what they actually know about the truth in their own hearts and are responsible for that determines that. That's God's territory, not ours.

I think this is the point poor ol' Joel Osteen was making on the Larry king show for which he got roasted by the church and served nubs up on a platter, apple stuffed in mouth, for suggesting.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I believed Phil already answered that...



Despite the fact I don't see eye-to-eye on some of his beliefs, I can see where he's coming from. My church is meeting with several people in a home setting once a week. Bible study goes from 2-3 hours which is about twice the time spent at an average Protestant liturgical service per week, and probably learning more exponentially in such a setting.

And yes, I left because I got tired of the traditions of men, and the Greek philosophy mixed in with biblical understanding, thus the reason I have "no" as a Christian on my profile. (Edited, ToS 2.4, disrespectful to church going Christians. Obadiah) So if we believe what we do, it's not because we were just told that. Chances are, we have a reason.

Don't let a leaven saturated church make you surrender the title of Christian out of shame:

"...if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name." (1 Peter 4:16 NAS)

You're destroying your witness to unbelievers. They won't understand why you refuse to be called what God calls his people--Christians. You risk leading them into their own life of rebellion against the legitimate things of God.

 

[GrannyJ]

This is one of the things I learned as I've been growing up in the Lord. We can't categorically assign all JW's and Mormons to the status of condemned unbeliever simply because they attend those churches. It's what they actually know about the truth in their own hearts and are responsible for that determines that. That's God's territory, not ours.

I think this is the point poor ol' Joel Osteen was making on the Larry king show for which he got roasted by the church and served nubs up on a platter, apple stuffed in mouth, for suggesting.

I agree.
"From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." - Luke 12:48

Much will be expected of those who are lucky enough to have had free access to the truth. Those who have received incorrect teaching will be judged according to what they did with what they DID know.

 

[stovebolts]

My only problem with this is that doctrinally speaking, the JW and Mormon belief systems are not Christian, so it becomes a bit dangerous to suggest that there could be Christians among them. I suppose it could be possible but if there are, they really ought to come out from them.

Sheeple.... Not all members of those sects are teachers, let alone apologists.

I believe teachers will be judged more harshly than the sheep who follow a false teacher... And there is much we could say about false teachers. But to say somebody who follows a false teacher will come under the same judgment isn't what I read in scriptures.