The true teachings of Jesus

[Free]

Let's look at some more.

Isa 60:1-3,19-20, 1 “Arise, O woman, shed light, for your light has come. The glory of Jehovah shines on you. 2 For look! darkness will cover the earth And thick gloom the nations; But on you Jehovah will shine, And on you his glory will be seen. 3 Nations will go to your light And kings to your shining splendor.
...
19 For you the sun will no longer be a light by day, Nor will the shining of the moon give you light, For Jehovah will become to you an eternal light, And your God will be your beauty. 20 No more will your sun set, Nor will your moon wane, For Jehovah will become for you an eternal light, And the days of your mourning will have ended. (NWT)

Clearly, Isaiah is saying that Jehovah will be the light, an eternal light, for his people, and will draw nations and kings. There is no mention of anyone else being this light.

2 Samuel 22:29 also refers to Jehovah as a "lamp": 29 For you are my lamp, O Jehovah; It is Jehovah who lights up my darkness. (NWT)

Now, looking at Rev 21:23-24:

23 And the city has no need of the sun nor of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God illuminated it, and its lamp was the Lamb. 24 And the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25 Its gates will not be closed at all by day, for night will not exist there. (NWT)

That is obviously drawing on what was said in Isaiah, namely, that the new Jerusalem does not need the sun nor the moon, since God illuminates it. How? Through the lamp, who is the Lamb. The Lamb is, of course, Christ.

Additionally, look at what God promises the Israelites in Ezekiel:

26 “‘“And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an eternal covenant with them. I will establish them and make them many and place my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My tent will be with them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 And the nations will have to know that I, Jehovah, am sanctifying Israel when my sanctuary is in their midst forever.”’” (NWT)

Here, Jehovah is saying that he will "place [his] sanctuary among them forever," that his "tent will be with them," and that his "sanctuary [will be] in their midst forever." That is, Jehovah alone will be their sanctuary; here, too, no one else is mentioned. When we look again at Rev 21, in the very same context of God and the Lamb illuminating the new Jerusalem, we read in verse 22:

22 I did not see a temple in it, for Jehovah God the Almighty is its temple, also the Lamb is. (NWT)

Notice that the temple is Jehovah and the Lamb.

So, within 3 verses, we not only have the Lamb being referred to as the temple, along with Jehovah, whom Jehovah had previously said only he would be, we also have the Lamb being the lamp which will be the light of the new Jerusalem, when Jehovah had previously said only he would.

It is very, very important to see how the NT writers made use of the OT to make sense of God as revealed in Jesus, as God in human flesh.

Why do you think we see these serious contradictions in the NWT? It is because this is exactly what one should expect to happen when the translators of a Bible version try to remove the deity of Christ. God is sovereign, so even in attempts to remove the deity of Christ, God still makes it come through; Jesus's deity cannot be completely removed because it is Truth.

 

[Free]

I will also reiterate that John 1:1c cannot be "the Word was a god," as that would mean there is more than one God. God himself says many times in the OT that he knows of no other god, neither before him nor after him. He is the only God (or god) in existence. John 1:1c is making a qualitative statement about the Word, that the Word is divine, or deity. However, only God is divine, so the best rendering of that portion of John 1:1 is that "the Word was God," as that is what it is essentially saying.

I pointed out that Jesus's name, as given in Rev 19:13, is "the Word of God." As the Word of God, it was through him that every single thing that every single thing came into existence. The logical conclusion is that the Son cannot be a thing that came into existence, or what John says is false. This also agrees with 1 Cor 8:6--Paul's expansion on the Shema (Deut 6:4)--and Col 1:16-17. Yes, Col 1:16-17 in the NWT state "all other things," but as the Kingdom Interlinear Translation shows, "other" is not in the Greek text, it is an unwarranted addition in the NWT in order to change the clear and plain meaning of the text. It is worth pointing out that previous versions of the NWT stated "all [other] things," all four times in those two verses, because they knew that "other" isn't in the Greek. And words can't just suddenly appear in the Greek text, since those are fixed, so the current version that simply says "all other things," is incredibly misleading and teaching error, as it completely changes the meaning of what is being said.

I also pointed out that Thomas calls Jesus (speaking only to Jesus), his Lord and his God. We see that he is not the only one who believes this as several times in the NT Jesus is worshiped, both by his disciples and others. Yet, even when Peter and an angel are worshiped, they reject that worship because they are not God. I have also shown that both Jehovah and Jesus are referred to as the "King of kings and Lord of lords."

But there is still more:

Isa 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I have called. I am the same One. I am the first; I am also the last." (NWT)

Jehovah claims to be "the first" and "also the last."

Rev 1:8 “I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.” (NWT)

Here, Jehovah first says that he is "the Alpha and the Omega" and "the One . . . who is coming."

Rev 21:5-7, 5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” 6 And he said to me: “They have come to pass! I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga, the beginning and the end. To anyone thirsting I will give from the spring of the water of life free. 7 Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be my son." (NWT)

Jehovah again says that he is the "Alpha and the Omega," and also "the beginning and the end." Clearly, then, Jehovah is claiming to be the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. It is really two ways of saying the same thing.

When we go back to Rev 1 and consider verses 17-18, we see that Jesus says that he is "the First and the last":

Rev 1:17-18, 17 When I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet. And he laid his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 18 and the living one, and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of the Grave." (NWT)

That sounds very similar to the Alpha and the Omega and the beginning and the end. That is at the very beginning of Revelation. And here is what we read at the very end:

Rev 22:12-13, 16, 12 “‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to repay each one according to his work. 13 I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
...
16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you about these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star.’” (NWT)

In case there is any doubt that Jesus is speaking in verses 12 and 13, let's look at Matthew 16:27:

"For the Son of man is to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will repay each one according to his behavior." (NWT)

It is Jesus who is coming and will repay each person according to their work.

Jesus is here claiming to be "the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." Three ways of saying the same thing; three ways to claim to be what Jehovah claims to be. He is also claiming to be the one who is coming, when Jehovah said he was the one who is coming.

So, what we see consistently throughout the NT, are titles and names that God claims to be his, and actions that are his, applied to Jesus. Yet, we know that Jesus is not the Father and taught monotheism, as he should. All of this is consistent in the vast majority of translations and with historic, orthodox Christian belief. But it is very contradictory both within the NWT itself and with the Watchtower's teachings. Someone has been lying to you for a very long time.

 

[keiw1]

Well, let's look at that. Here is what I posted previously about Heb 1:8-12:

‘8 But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners.” 10 And: “You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands. 11 They themselves will perish, but you yourself are to remain continually; and just like an outer garment they will all grow old, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as an outer garment; and they will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will never run out.’ (NWT)

Compare:

Psalm 102:25 Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth itself, And the heavens are the work of your hands. 26 They will perish, but you will remain; Just like a garment they will all wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will pass away. 27 But you are the same, and your years will never end. 28 The children of your servants will dwell securely, And their offspring will be firmly established before you.” (NWT)

Notice that Heb 1:8 says God is saying this “with reference to the Son,” yet, as you said, in Psalm 102 it is speaking of Jehovah. So, is the writer of Hebrews wrong? How do you explain a passage in Psalms that is clearly speaking about God, being clearly applied to Jesus by God in Hebrews?

You responded that in verse 10, it is speaking of Jehovah.

However, as I responded, while Hebrews 1:10-12 is quoting Psalms 102:25-27, the reason it is being quoted is important. And that reason is given in Hebrews 1:8--it is God, the Father, speaking "in reference to the Son" or, as the NWT Study Edition puts it, "But about the Son, he says." The "And" that begins verse 10 refers back to verse 8, specifically about whom God is speaking--"the Son." In other words, God is saying that it is the Son being spoken of as the Creator. It is God applying the work of Jehovah to the Son. That is, even the NWT says that Jesus is Jehovah.

You have yet to adequately address this contradiction in your beliefs and the NWT. Why is it that the NWT both denies and affirms that Jesus is Jehovah, or at least is one with Jehovah?

Its saying God is his God and partners= angels. You twist it. Heb 1:4-So he has become better than the angels( means he was equal to them) except he inherited a name above theirs. So without inheriting that name he was equal to the angels. Philipians 2:9--God gave him that name above other names.

 

[jaybo]

I will also reiterate that John 1:1c cannot be "the Word was a god," as that would mean there is more than one God. God himself says many times in the OT that he knows of no other god, neither before him nor after him. He is the only God (or god) in existence. John 1:1c is making a qualitative statement about the Word, that the Word is divine, or deity. However, only God is divine, so the best rendering of that portion of John 1:1 is that "the Word was God," as that is what it is essentially saying.

I pointed out that Jesus's name, as given in Rev 19:13, is "the Word of God." As the Word of God, it was through him that every single thing that every single thing came into existence. The logical conclusion is that the Son cannot be a thing that came into existence, or what John says is false. This also agrees with 1 Cor 8:6--Paul's expansion on the Shema (Deut 6:4)--and Col 1:16-17. Yes, Col 1:16-17 in the NWT state "all other things," but as the Kingdom Interlinear Translation shows, "other" is not in the Greek text, it is an unwarranted addition in the NWT in order to change the clear and plain meaning of the text. It is worth pointing out that previous versions of the NWT stated "all [other] things," all four times in those two verses, because they knew that "other" isn't in the Greek. And words can't just suddenly appear in the Greek text, since those are fixed, so the current version that simply says "all other things," is incredibly misleading and teaching error, as it completely changes the meaning of what is being said.

I also pointed out that Thomas calls Jesus (speaking only to Jesus), his Lord and his God. We see that he is not the only one who believes this as several times in the NT Jesus is worshiped, both by his disciples and others. Yet, even when Peter and an angel are worshiped, they reject that worship because they are not God. I have also shown that both Jehovah and Jesus are referred to as the "King of kings and Lord of lords."

But there is still more:

Isa 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I have called. I am the same One. I am the first; I am also the last." (NWT)

Jehovah claims to be "the first" and "also the last."

Rev 1:8 “I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.” (NWT)

Here, Jehovah first says that he is "the Alpha and the Omega" and "the One . . . who is coming."

Rev 21:5-7, 5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” 6 And he said to me: “They have come to pass! I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga, the beginning and the end. To anyone thirsting I will give from the spring of the water of life free. 7 Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be my son." (NWT)

Jehovah again says that he is the "Alpha and the Omega," and also "the beginning and the end." Clearly, then, Jehovah is claiming to be the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. It is really two ways of saying the same thing.

When we go back to Rev 1 and consider verses 17-18, we see that Jesus says that he is "the First and the last":

Rev 1:17-18, 17 When I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet. And he laid his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 18 and the living one, and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of the Grave." (NWT)

That sounds very similar to the Alpha and the Omega and the beginning and the end. That is at the very beginning of Revelation. And here is what we read at the very end:

Rev 22:12-13, 16, 12 “‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to repay each one according to his work. 13 I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
...
16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you about these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star.’” (NWT)

In case there is any doubt that Jesus is speaking in verses 12 and 13, let's look at Matthew 16:27:

"For the Son of man is to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will repay each one according to his behavior." (NWT)

It is Jesus who is coming and will repay each person according to their work.

Jesus is here claiming to be "the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." Three ways of saying the same thing; three ways to claim to be what Jehovah claims to be. He is also claiming to be the one who is coming, when Jehovah said he was the one who is coming.

So, what we see consistently throughout the NT, are titles and names that God claims to be his, and actions that are his, applied to Jesus. Yet, we know that Jesus is not the Father and taught monotheism, as he should. All of this is consistent in the vast majority of translations and with historic, orthodox Christian belief. But it is very contradictory both within the NWT itself and with the Watchtower's teachings. Someone has been lying to you for a very long time.

I didn't get past your first sentence: I will also reiterate that John 1:1c cannot be "the Word was a god," as that would mean there is more than one God.

Jesus directly contradicts you when He says "The Father and I are one.” John 10:30

Even thought they are separate, they share one spiritual identity. It's not an east concept to understand.

Here are a parallel examples: a) My wife and I are married; we became "one flesh". Mark 10:7-9, " ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” b) my brother, sister and I are all of the same family, even though we are different people. c) My wife, brother, sister, children, and grandchildren are all Americans -- one nationality.

Romans 6:1, "So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Romans 8:1, "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
Romans 8:10, "But if Christ is in you, then the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness."
Romans 12:4-5, "For as in one body we have many members and not all the members have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually we are members one of another."
1 Corinthians 1:30, "In contrast, God is why you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption"
1 Corinthians 12:27, "Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it."
2 Corinthians 1:21, "But it is God who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us,"
2 Corinthians 13:5, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are living in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless, indeed, you fail to meet the test!
Galatians 3:26, "for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith."
Galatians 3:28, "There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."
Ephesians 1:3, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,"
Ephesians 2:5-6, "even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,"
Ephesians 2:10, "For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we may walk in them."
Ephesians 2:13, "But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ."
Ephesians 3:16-17, "I pray that, according to the riches of his glory, he may grant that you may be strengthened in your inner being with power through his Spirit and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, as you are being rooted and grounded in love."
Philippians 4:7, "And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."

 

[jaybo]

continuing on...

Colossians 1:27, "To them God chose to make known how great among the gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."
Colossians 2:6, "As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, continue to walk in him,"
Galatians 3:2-3, "Set your minds on the things that are above, not on the things that are on earth, for you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Galatians 3:11, "In that renewal there is no longer Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, enslaved and free, but Christ is all and in all!"
2 Thessalonians 1:1, "Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ"
1 John 5:20, "And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

There is more Scripture on this subject, of course, but I am getting tired of posting verses that all confirm the same thing: We (all Christians), God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all one.

 

[keiw1]

I didn't get past your first sentence: I will also reiterate that John 1:1c cannot be "the Word was a god," as that would mean there is more than one God.

Jesus directly contradicts you when He says "The Father and I are one.” John 10:30

Even thought they are separate, they share one spiritual identity. It's not an east concept to understand.

Here are a parallel examples: a) My wife and I are married; we became "one flesh". Mark 10:7-9, " ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” b) my brother, sister and I are all of the same family, even though we are different people. c) My wife, brother, sister, children, and grandchildren are all Americans -- one nationality.

Romans 6:1, "So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Romans 8:1, "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
Romans 8:10, "But if Christ is in you, then the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness."
Romans 12:4-5, "For as in one body we have many members and not all the members have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually we are members one of another."
1 Corinthians 1:30, "In contrast, God is why you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption"
1 Corinthians 12:27, "Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it."
2 Corinthians 1:21, "But it is God who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us,"
2 Corinthians 13:5, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are living in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless, indeed, you fail to meet the test!
Galatians 3:26, "for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith."
Galatians 3:28, "There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."
Ephesians 1:3, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,"
Ephesians 2:5-6, "even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,"
Ephesians 2:10, "For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we may walk in them."
Ephesians 2:13, "But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ."
Ephesians 3:16-17, "I pray that, according to the riches of his glory, he may grant that you may be strengthened in your inner being with power through his Spirit and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, as you are being rooted and grounded in love."
Philippians 4:7, "And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."

Jaybo is in error. I explained to him with bible proof small g god is NOT calling that one the true God. In the Greek lexicons( trinity translating) The true God is called Ho Theos in the 2nd line at John 1:1-the word is called plain Theos. The only other spot in the NT where this occurs is 2 Cor 4:4--Satan is called plain Theos, the true God is called Ho Theos. for a reason, to show that plain Theos is not calling that one the true God but small g god is 100% correct.

Otherwise in his darkness fails to see that in plain english if the word is God, the second line at John 1:1 is saying-And God was with God--that is more than 1 God. Its the error of a capitol G God in the last line that has mislead billions.
In 1822 A. Kneeland a Greek scholar translated from Greek Lexicons, compared Greek to English side by side to prove to the world-a god is 100% correct in the last line at John 1:1)-19 other translations in history had it correct. Rejected by every trinity clergy because that fact exposes all of them as false religions, not to mention-A house divided will not stand.

 

[Free]

I didn't get past your first sentence: I will also reiterate that John 1:1c cannot be "the Word was a god," as that would mean there is more than one God.

Jesus directly contradicts you when He says "The Father and I are one.” John 10:30

There is no contradiction. There was, is, and ever will be only one God. There is no other "god."

Even thought they are separate, they share one spiritual identity. It's not an east concept to understand.

Here are a parallel examples: a) My wife and I are married; we became "one flesh". Mark 10:7-9, " ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” b) my brother, sister and I are all of the same family, even though we are different people. c) My wife, brother, sister, children, and grandchildren are all Americans -- one nationality.

But that is Modalism, not Trinitarianism. There is no direct analogy to human relationships since we are individual persons and beings. God is one being existing concurrently as three coequal, coeternal persons. Each is fully and truly God, yet distinct from the other two. The Father and the Son are of the same essence, and there is only one God, which is why the correct translation of John 1:1c is "the Word was God."

You definitely need to get past my first sentence.

There is more Scripture on this subject, of course, but I am getting tired of posting verses that all confirm the same thing: We (all Christians), God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all one.

But humans are one with God in a different way than God is one within the ontological Trinity. We are not one in essence with each person of the Trinity or we would all be God.

 

[Free]

Its saying God is his God and partners= angels. You twist it. Heb 1:4-So he has become better than the angels( means he was equal to them) except he inherited a name above theirs. So without inheriting that name he was equal to the angels. Philipians 2:9--God gave him that name above other names.

No, Heb 1:8-12 are a part of the context that we must take into account. No other verse or verses overrides them. The writer of Hebrews is very clearly stating that Jehovah says that the Son is being mentioned in Psalm 102. And, don't forget Heb 1:2-3:

2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. 3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins (NWT)

Notice that it was through the Son that God created "the systems of things." The KIT says "through whom also he made the ages." That is, again, all things were made through the Son, agreeing with John 1:3, 1 Cor 8:6, and Col 1:16-17. But it also says that the Son "is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being," which affirms Col 1:19; he is God in human flesh. And more than that, it is the Son who "sustains all things by the word of his power," which agrees with Col 1:17.

Remember, as I have mentioned before, the Son has always been God, but limited the use of his divine attributes--"emptied himself"--to take on the nature of a human. He did that so he could live a sinless life, die on the cross and taking all our sins on himself, so that we could be justified. He then rose again physically, as the firstborn from the dead, to show that those who believe in him and his death and resurrection will also rise again, to live forever with him. He is God Incarnate, God in human flesh; the God-man. It is out of his obedience and willingness to die on the cross that God "highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name." This is all in Phil 2:5-9.

Christ's exaltation only comes after his humiliation, his emptying of himself and becoming human. His exaltation is for our benefit, so that all can see who he truly is, even though the Bible clearly tells us that he is God. In no way whatsoever does his exaltation mean that he isn't God.

 

[jaybo]

There is no contradiction. There was, is, and ever will be only one God. There is no other "god."


But that is Modalism, not Trinitarianism. There is no direct analogy to human relationships since we are individual persons and beings. God is one being existing concurrently as three coequal, coeternal persons. Each is fully and truly God, yet distinct from the other two. The Father and the Son are of the same essence, and there is only one God, which is why the correct translation of John 1:1c is "the Word was God."

You definitely need to get past my first sentence.


But humans are one with God in a different way than God is one within the ontological Trinity. We are not one in essence with each person of the Trinity or we would all be God.

There is a direct analogy to human relationships since we are individual persons and beings, yet we are one. Regarding marriage: Matthew 19:6, "So they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

If we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and we are Christ's body, then we are one in essence with each person of the Trinity. In other words, we are all God.

 

[Free]

There is a direct analogy to human relationships since we are individual persons and beings, yet we are one. Regarding marriage: Matthew 19:6, "So they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Again, we are not one in the same way that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one.

If we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and we are Christ's body, then we are one in essence with each person of the Trinity. In other words, we are all God.

No, we certainly are not. There was, is, and ever will be only one God, consisting of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We are children by adoption; we are not God.

 

[jaybo]

Again, we are not one in the same way that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one.


No, we certainly are not. There was, is, and ever will be only one God, consisting of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We are children by adoption; we are not God.

As I have said earlier, I disagree entirely. We are one with Christ; we are His body. We are one in the same way that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one. If we are children by adoption then we are of the same immediate family as God. He is our "abba", our father.

In human terms, when a child is adopted, he is a legitimate part of the family. We have been adopted; we are a legitimate part of God's family, His children in every sense of the word.

 

[keiw1]

No, Heb 1:8-12 are a part of the context that we must take into account. No other verse or verses overrides them. The writer of Hebrews is very clearly stating that Jehovah says that the Son is being mentioned in Psalm 102. And, don't forget Heb 1:2-3:

2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. 3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins (NWT)

Notice that it was through the Son that God created "the systems of things." The KIT says "through whom also he made the ages." That is, again, all things were made through the Son, agreeing with John 1:3, 1 Cor 8:6, and Col 1:16-17. But it also says that the Son "is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being," which affirms Col 1:19; he is God in human flesh. And more than that, it is the Son who "sustains all things by the word of his power," which agrees with Col 1:17.

Remember, as I have mentioned before, the Son has always been God, but limited the use of his divine attributes--"emptied himself"--to take on the nature of a human. He did that so he could live a sinless life, die on the cross and taking all our sins on himself, so that we could be justified. He then rose again physically, as the firstborn from the dead, to show that those who believe in him and his death and resurrection will also rise again, to live forever with him. He is God Incarnate, God in human flesh; the God-man. It is out of his obedience and willingness to die on the cross that God "highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name." This is all in Phil 2:5-9.

Christ's exaltation only comes after his humiliation, his emptying of himself and becoming human. His exaltation is for our benefit, so that all can see who he truly is, even though the Bible clearly tells us that he is God. In no way whatsoever does his exaltation mean that he isn't God.

Gods real truth does contradict itself. Both of us use scriptures to try and show that truth. Here is the difference. The ones i use are in every translation on earth. Most of what you use are altered in trinity translation. And they contradict the truths that are in every translation.

 

[Free]

Gods real truth does contradict itself. Both of us use scriptures to try and show that truth. Here is the difference. The ones i use are in every translation on earth. Most of what you use are altered in trinity translation. And they contradict the truths that are in every translation.

On the contrary, much of what is in the NWT isn't in any other translation, because it has been purposely distorted to remove the truth. I have even proved this to be the case by showing and stating what the KIT states--they contradict each other at various points.

 

[Free]

As I have said earlier, I disagree entirely. We are one with Christ; we are His body. We are one in the same way that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one. If we are children by adoption then we are of the same immediate family as God. He is our "abba", our father.

In human terms, when a child is adopted, he is a legitimate part of the family. We have been adopted; we are a legitimate part of God's family, His children in every sense of the word.

Yes, we are a part of his family, but that is far different from claiming to all be God. God dwells in us, but we are not in nature God. Only God is God and for us, his creatures, to claim to be God is blasphemy.

 

[jaybo]

Yes, we are a part of his family, but that is far different from claiming to all be God. God dwells in us, but we are not in nature God. Only God is God and for us, his creatures, to claim to be God is blasphemy.

Obviously we disagree. Nobody is claiming to be God, but we are in nature God -- our new nature after being saved. If you consider that blasphemy then IMHO you have misunderstood the basis of Christianity.