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The Westminster Confession of Faith Blasphemy

Eddie42 said:
In accord with "SolaScriptura", the KJV language compared to the modern English language clearly gives us the meaning of "pleased", if we are willing to accept God's word. The Westminster Confession English was written in the same generation as the KJV English. According to God's own word, in the context of the Westminster, "pleased = willing" as I insert in brackets in the original text, comparing KJV English to English of today:

This is the original wording of the Westminster Confession:
"Our first parents, being seduced by the subtilty and temptation of Satan, sinned, in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin, God was pleased[willing], according to His wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory."

This is clearly the use of the word in the Bible itself!

"But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased." (Ps 115:3, KJV)
"Our God is high in heaven; he does whatever he wills." (Ps 115:3, REB)

"Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places." (Ps 135:6, KJV)
"Whatever the Lord wills, that he does, in heaven and on earth, in the sea and all the great deep." (Ps 135:6, REB)

The following verse is the prophesy about the death on the cross of Jesus:

"Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand." (Isa 53:10, KJV)
"Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him with pain. When you make his life an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, and shall prolong his days; through him the will of the LORD shall prosper." (Isa 53:10, NRSV)

Can the sovereignty of God be in clearer than as it is stated over the greatest sin of world history?

"For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done." (Acts 4:28, KJV)
"to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place." (Acts 4:28, NRSV)
"to do whatsoever thy hand and thy council foreordained to come to pass." (Acts 4:28, ASV)

"This is the plan that is planned concerning the whole earth; and this is the hand that is stretched out over all the nations. For the LORD of hosts has planned, and who will annul it? His hand is stretched out, and who will turn it back?" (Isa 14:26-27, NRSV)

When dealing with the lack of reading comprehension and common sense as seen in this thread, the words of Robert L. Dabney come so clear:

"Polemic Theology has been defined as direct refutation of error. The advantage of this has been supposed to be, that the way for easiest and most thorough refutation is to systematize the error, with reference to its first principle, or prwton yeudo. But the attempt to form a science of polemics, different from Didactic Theology fails; because error never has true method. Confusion is its characteristic."

Therefore, let God's truth stand forth and the lies of Satan will be exposed to God's elect!
Click to expand...

The word "Pleased", as used before the KJV was written in 1611, is shown to have the meaning in the Oxford English Dictionary:

"Affected by feelings of satisfaction or pleasure; contented, gratified, in good humour; †appeased.

1382 Wyclif Ps. lxxvii. 38 He forsooth is merciful, and plesid [1388 merciful] shal be maad to the synnes of hem. 1493 Festivall (W. de W. 1515) 58 Therwith he helde hym pleased. 1530 Palsgr. 321/1 Pleased, content. 1593 Shakes. 2 Hen. VI, i. ii. 55 Nay be not angry, I am pleas'd againe. 1596 ― Merch. V. iii. ii. 182 Among the buzzing pleased multitude."

The Websters English dictionary says:

Main Entry:1please
Pronunciation:*pl*z
Function:verb
Inflected Form:pleased ; pleas£ing
Etymology:Middle English plesen, from Anglo-French plaisir, pleisir, pleire, from Latin plac*re; akin to Latin placare to placate and perhaps to Greek plak-, plax flat surface — more at FLUKE
Date:14th century

intransitive verb
1 : to afford or give pleasure or satisfaction
2 : LIKE, WISH *do as you please*
3 archaic : to have the kindness *will you please to enter the carriage — Charles Dickens*
transitive verb
1 : to give pleasure to : GRATIFY
2 : to be the will or pleasure of *may it please Your Majesty*
–pleas£er \*pl*-z*r\ noun

I can see no usage of "pleased" to mean "will"! In fact, "pleased" means "PLEASURE"

You have yet again failed to deal with:

"because in his wisdom and holiness he PLANNED TO ORDER THEIR SIN TO HIS GLORY"

Bible, chapter and verse please!
 
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Fastfredy0 said:
Yes. To think otherwise is to conjecture that either:
  • God lacks the power to stop events occurring according to His wishes which contradicts His be all powerful or
  • God lacks the knowledge to all things which contradicts His be all knowing or
  • God lacks the wisdom to have the best plan possible which contradicts His being all wise or
  • God is the only person of value and all things should suit His purpose and glory and man is merely good to the degree that God empowers man via participation in God's plan. As God made all things for himself, so he orders the ends of all things made by him for his own glory. For being the most excellent and intelligent agent, he doth reduce all the motions of his creatures to that end for which he made them. Stephen Charnock
Proverbs 16:33
Westminster Confession of Faith, V/i–iv, vii (granted, this is man's view point of what God says)
Aside: Theology should be God centered and not man centered. It about Him and not you or I.



A statement often abused to try to make a point. The definition of "image of God" is obtuse. People use it to equate man characteristics to God's character to form conclusions lacking foundation.



This statement contradicts God's eternally and omniscience. Since God is eternal He is outside of and not restricted to time. Your statement "it wasn't until" implies that God lacked knowledge till a certain point in time. This contradicts God's omniscience. Thus, your conclusions are built upon a false premise.



... and where did Satan get the ability to cause himself to do ANYTHING (first cause). Is Satan eternal and thus could have the ability to self determine. All of Satan's being is created and thus controlled by the Creator. Satan being the first cause of anything is dualism.



Ah, the God learns as He goes theory. One should not accuse God of ignorance. (or not be wise enough to prevent evil, or not being powerful enough to prevent evil .... )
Luke 14:28 Which of you, wishing to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost to see if he has the resources to complete it? Your comments indicate God doesn't 'first sit down and count the cost' or is not all knowing IMO.
Click to expand...

so you cannot really respond to the WCF as in the OP!
 
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Eddie42 said:
Is Yahweh Omniscient and Omnipotent or is he not? Wasn't the Son predestined to come save sinners before creation itself? It must have been in the plan to permit man to sin then.
Click to expand...
That is only your opinion that God would permit man to sin then.

Please answer this for me as I know you do not like to answer questions we ask of you. If God permitted sin in man then why did it repent Him that He even created humans and wanted to destroy them?

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
 
SolaScriptura said:
this can be understood to mean, that God is not all-knowing. Surely God knew all of this in eternity past, as He also did about the fall of Adam and Eve, etc.
Click to expand...
Did He know? How would we know for sure. :shrug

Angels are created beings and God set Lucifer as an anointed cherub over the garden of Eden way before He created Adam and Eve. If God knew that Lucifer would rebel against Him then why would God make him an anointed cherub?

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
 
Eddie42 said:
You wrote "It is blasphemy to say God was/is pleased with sin." You will not find that in the Westminster Confession of Faith nor will you find it in my post. The word "pleased" in that context means was willing. Typical, misrepresent and misquote so you can attack that! That is the same deceit the Watchtower uses about the Trinity.
Click to expand...
It is most definitely blasphemy.

From the OP:

The Westminster Confession of Faith Says That God was PLEASED With The Fall of The Human Race.

“Our first parents were led astray by the cunning temptation of Satan and sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. It pleased God to allow them to sin, because in his wisdom and holiness he planned to order their sin to his own glory” (On the Fall of Man, https://epc.org/wp-content/uploads/Files/1-Who-We-Are/B-About-The-EPC/WCF-ModernEnglish.pdf)

Not only does the WCF say that God was PLEASED to ALLOW Adam and Eve to sin, and therefore the entire human race. But, it goes on to say, that God so PLANNED to ORDER THEIR SIN TO HIS OWN GLORY.

How can anyone who calls themselves a Christian not believe this is blasphemy!!!

If you believe this then you had better prove it with scripture.
 
Eddie42 said:
In accord with "SolaScriptura", the KJV language compared to the modern English language clearly gives us the meaning of "pleased", if we are willing to accept God's word. The Westminster Confession English was written in the same generation as the KJV English. According to God's own word, in the context of the Westminster, "pleased = willing" as I insert in brackets in the original text, comparing KJV English to English of today:

This is the original wording of the Westminster Confession:
"Our first parents, being seduced by the subtilty and temptation of Satan, sinned, in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin, God was pleased[willing], according to His wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory."

This is clearly the use of the word in the Bible itself!

"But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased." (Ps 115:3, KJV)
"Our God is high in heaven; he does whatever he wills." (Ps 115:3, REB)

"Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places." (Ps 135:6, KJV)
"Whatever the Lord wills, that he does, in heaven and on earth, in the sea and all the great deep." (Ps 135:6, REB)

The following verse is the prophesy about the death on the cross of Jesus:

"Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand." (Isa 53:10, KJV)
"Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him with pain. When you make his life an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, and shall prolong his days; through him the will of the LORD shall prosper." (Isa 53:10, NRSV)

Can the sovereignty of God be in clearer than as it is stated over the greatest sin of world history?

"For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done." (Acts 4:28, KJV)
"to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place." (Acts 4:28, NRSV)
"to do whatsoever thy hand and thy council foreordained to come to pass." (Acts 4:28, ASV)

"This is the plan that is planned concerning the whole earth; and this is the hand that is stretched out over all the nations. For the LORD of hosts has planned, and who will annul it? His hand is stretched out, and who will turn it back?" (Isa 14:26-27, NRSV)

When dealing with the lack of reading comprehension and common sense as seen in this thread, the words of Robert L. Dabney come so clear:

"Polemic Theology has been defined as direct refutation of error. The advantage of this has been supposed to be, that the way for easiest and most thorough refutation is to systematize the error, with reference to its first principle, or prwton yeudo. But the attempt to form a science of polemics, different from Didactic Theology fails; because error never has true method. Confusion is its characteristic."

Therefore, let God's truth stand forth and the lies of Satan will be exposed to God's elect!
Click to expand...
:shame :readbible

Nothing more than a written document, not inspired by God, but written of men who follow that of Augustine's reformation theologies that Calvinism has derived from as they try to make scripture line up with what they say instead of lining up with what is already written.

I have been in this forum for 10 years now and in that time many Calvinist have come and gone trying to bring these false doctrines only to be shot down by the truth that is found in scripture presented to them. I have no problem with what one chooses to believe, but to know if it is not of God, like the WCF, you are going to be shot down for teaching false doctrines of man.

I know, you Calvinist think all of us are wrong and against you, but no, we are against the false teachings that lead others astray from the truth found in the doctrines of Christ. This is not a Calvinistic forum or any other religious forum for that matter, but a Christian forum where we discuss the doctrines of Christ trying to build up and edify one another as we share the teachings of Christ, not the teachings of Augustine, Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, etc., etc. There is one Lord, one Faith and one Baptism and will add one word, but way to many worldly doctrines of devils to confuse the mind of those without much knowledge. Each one of us will give an account unto God for what we taught while here on earth and there will be no excuses before Him.
 
for_his_glory said:
Did He know? How would we know for sure. :shrug

Angels are created beings and God set Lucifer as an anointed cherub over the garden of Eden way before He created Adam and Eve. If God knew that Lucifer would rebel against Him then why would God make him an anointed cherub?

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Click to expand...

If God does not know ALL things, from eternity past to eternity future, then He cannot be God!

There are things, like the fall of the human race, the rebellion of the devil and his angels, the origin of evil, that God has chosen not to tell us, as we do not need to know, but simply trust Him.

How can God promise anyone eternal life, if He does not know the future, and therefore cannot know who will be in heaven?
 
Eddie42 said:
In accord with "SolaScriptura", the KJV language compared to the modern English language clearly gives us the meaning of "pleased", if we are willing to accept God's word. The Westminster Confession English was written in the same generation as the KJV English. According to God's own word, in the context of the Westminster, "pleased = willing" as I insert in brackets in the original text, comparing KJV English to English of today:
Click to expand...

I think you misssed my post no. 4 to you.

Actually, newer translations are better because they're based on manuscripts found that were not available when the KJV was written in the 1600,s.


Eddie42 said:
This is the original wording of the Westminster Confession:
"Our first parents, being seduced by the subtilty and temptation of Satan, sinned, in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin, God was pleased[willing], according to His wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory."

This is clearly the use of the word in the Bible itself!

"But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased." (Ps 115:3, KJV)
"Our God is high in heaven; he does whatever he wills." (Ps 115:3, REB)

"Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places." (Ps 135:6, KJV)
"Whatever the Lord wills, that he does, in heaven and on earth, in the sea and all the great deep." (Ps 135:6, REB)
Click to expand...

We're discussing a word here....this is not very fruitful
Pleased can very well mean "willing".

It's rather irrelevant since the WCF itself states that God purposed everything to happen according to His will.
Everything:

1. God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

WCF
Chapter 3
Paragraph 1

So, calvinism is rather interesting IMO.
The above states that God caused everything to come to pass...
However, He is not the author of sin.....Is there another God to whom we could attribute blame??
Violence was not offered to the will of creature....
However, God caused EVERYTHING to come to pass....??

He does not take away second causes,,,but He nonetheless establishes them.

I applaude anyone who can understand the above.

Eddie42 said:


The following verse is the prophesy about the death on the cross of Jesus:

"Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand." (Isa 53:10, KJV)
"Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him with pain. When you make his life an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, and shall prolong his days; through him the will of the LORD shall prosper." (Isa 53:10, NRSV)

Can the sovereignty of God be in clearer than as it is stated over the greatest sin of world history?
Click to expand...


Of course God planned the death of Jesus.
This has been planned from the beginning of time.
God knew man would fail...
God made a way for man to save Himself, if he so wanted.

Nothing new here.
Nothing to do with the O.P., unless you can explain how.


Eddie42 said:

"For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done." (Acts 4:28, KJV)
"to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place." (Acts 4:28, NRSV)
"to do whatsoever thy hand and thy council foreordained to come to pass." (Acts 4:28, ASV)

"This is the plan that is planned concerning the whole earth; and this is the hand that is stretched out over all the nations. For the LORD of hosts has planned, and who will annul it? His hand is stretched out, and who will turn it back?" (Isa 14:26-27, NRSV)
Click to expand...

Acts 4:28
Everything they did was determined beforehand according to Your will.

In Acts 4:1....
Peter and John were preaching.
Many of those THAT HEARD THE MESSAGE, believed.
Faith come by hearing the Word of God. Romans 10:17
Once again, we are told how we receive faith.

Acts 4:1 is a free will action.
Acts 4:28 was preplanned by God, just as is said and as I've stated above.
This concerns the salvation of mankind.....

God does interact with humanity.
Everything had to go according to God's plan of salvation.
Mary was also chosen beforehand.

This does not mean that EVERYTHING is predetermined by God.
If so, it would mean that He IS responsible for every evil act of man...even if the WCF claims that it isn't.

God is not a God of confusion.
God is not capable of evil.
God cannot do what is against His very nature.




Eddie42 said:

When dealing with the lack of reading comprehension and common sense as seen in this thread, the words of Robert L. Dabney come so clear:

"Polemic Theology has been defined as direct refutation of error. The advantage of this has been supposed to be, that the way for easiest and most thorough refutation is to systematize the error, with reference to its first principle, or prwton yeudo. But the attempt to form a science of polemics, different from Didactic Theology fails; because error never has true method. Confusion is its characteristic."

Therefore, let God's truth stand forth and the lies of Satan will be exposed to God's elect!
Click to expand...
So since we lack reading comprehension and common sense,
could you explain better what the WCF means?

"Our first parents, being seduced by the subtilty and temptation of Satan, sinned, in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin, God was pleased[willing], according to His wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory."

What does HAVING PURPOSED TO ORDER IT mean?? (the eating of the fruit by A and E)
 
SolaScriptura said:
so you cannot really respond to the WCF as in the OP!
Click to expand...
I respond and defend scripture as I fallibly understand it. I have no obligation to defend the WCF in all matters. You seem to have an issue with the WCF. Give us the name of a couple systematic summaries of Scripture that you find superior, if you dare. I think we both admit all such documents are fallible which does not mean the are without value.

Aside: My theodicy varies slightly from the WCF so, though I generally agree with the WCF, I don't go along with their theodicy exactly as written.
Aside: R.C. Sproul was a big WCF defender, but when it got to a theodicy he too had unanswerable questions. You rightly noted that Grudem's stated a theodicy is a mystery to some degree.

SolaScriptura said:
“Our first parents were led astray by the cunning temptation of Satan and sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. It pleased God to allow them to sin, because in his wisdom and holiness he planned to order their sin to his own glory” Not only does the WCF say that God was PLEASED to ALLOW Adam and Eve to sin, and therefore the entire human race. But, it goes on to say, that God so PLANNED to ORDER THEIR SIN TO HIS OWN GLORY.
Click to expand...

You don't say specifically what issues you have with the statement but put in CAPS a few phrases which I will assume are your issues. I will address them.

Re: your issue with the word PLEASED ... you seem to have your tail in a knot by the word PLEASED in regard to ALLOWING sin. Since scripture using the word PLEASED in regard to God allowing sin it seems that Mr. Sola Scriptura should not have an issue for to do so would be hypocritical.
Proof Text showing God was pleased with sin being allowed:
Isaiah 53:10 Yet is pleased God to bruise him [Christ]; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt

Re: your issue with the word ALLOWED ... actually, I don't agree with the use of word but the WCF supports the idea of compatibilism and thus uses the words ALLOWED and PERMITS to distance God from sin and thus, as the confession states: God is NOT the author of sin.

Re: your issue with the phrase PLANNED to ORDER THEIR SIN TO HIS OWN GLORY
Re: Planned their sin ...Speaking for the WCF, they believe that God is all-wise, all-knowing and all-powerful. Thus He has the wisdom and knowledge to create the best plan and the power to execute it. Any alternate denies one or more of these attributes of God.
Re: To his own Glory
As God is the only being worthy of glory and his purpose is His glory and pleasure it only follows that God's plan should be for God's glory and pleasure.
I can expand on this if you want with numerous verses. Thus I've show IMO that your statement that the WCF is blasphemy is blasphemous.
_______________


You're Mr. Sola scriptura.

Give us your theodicy (the vindication of God's goodness and justice in the face of the existence of evil") so we can compare it to that of the WCF. Show us your vision of God's justice in the light of the existence of evil. Set the record straight for us. Submit your truth.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
A statement often abused to try to make a point. The definition of "image of God" is obtuse. People use it to equate man characteristics to God's character to form conclusions lacking foundation.
Click to expand...

What do YOU think it means to be made in the image of God?

Fastfredy0 said:
... and where did Satan get the ability to cause himself to do ANYTHING (first cause). Is Satan eternal and thus could have the ability to self determine. All of Satan's being is created and thus controlled by the Creator. Satan being the first cause of anything is dualism.
Click to expand...

Not only eternal beings can self-determine.
We are not eternal and yet we have free will. (look up the meaning).
If satan were a first cause, you're correct in that it would be dualism.

So then, unless God created satan and every evil in the world, both natural (nature) and moral (man)...
then there must be another explanation.

Free will fits the bill.
 
for_his_glory said:
Did He know? How would we know for sure. :shrug

Angels are created beings and God set Lucifer as an anointed cherub over the garden of Eden way before He created Adam and Eve. If God knew that Lucifer would rebel against Him then why would God make him an anointed cherub?
Click to expand...
Wow, someone that does not believe in the omniscience of God.

  1. He receives no his knowledge from anything without himself: Isaiah 40:13 "Who hath been his counsellor?
  2. If you are correct, then I am God's counsellor .... how kewl is that!
  3. if God's knowledge of the creatures depended us, he would derive an excellency from us ... sweet, we give things to God
  4. Therefore, God is not immutable after all as His knowledge changes as we give knowledge to God ... wow, we teach God ... hmmm, anything that can change cannot be eternal for as he once existed without certain knowledge, he now exists with that knowledge; thus as he is now is was not and therefore His eternality is but a wisp of the wind that is here for but a short time
  5. I got to wonder how God predicts the future when he is dependent upon us for information; said information not being forthcoming till certain events make matters clear to Him.
  6. I suppose as God accumulates knowing He can change His mind (repent). Is if awfully difficult to change your mind and keep your word at the same time. If He keeps His word even though He changed his mind because He acquired new information He might be forced to pursue an inferior plan given the newly acquired knowledge. Hmmm
  • Job 37:16 who is perfect in knowledge ...
  • Job 21:22 “Can anyone teach God knowledge, Seeing that He judges those on high? for_his_glory thinks so
  • Psalm 139:16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance, and in Your book all the days [of my life] were written before ever they took shape, when as yet there was none of them. ... must be a short book if God is not all knowing and depends on us for knowledge
  • Psalm 147:5 Great is our [majestic and mighty] Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is inexhaustible [infinite, boundless].
  • John 16:30 Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; because of this we believe [without any doubt] that you came from God.”
  • John 21:17b “Lord, you know everything;

To quote you and what you said to Eddie42 ... .
for_his_glory said:
How can anyone who calls themselves a Christian not believe this is blasphemy!!!

If you believe this then you had better prove it with scripture.
Click to expand...

Aside: This does explain a lot regarding your doctrine though ... interesting
 
I have never read The Westminster Confession of Faith, as I have no need of it. I have the Bible, I am literate,

The Westminster Confession of Faith is just some invented ritual; it is not Scripture. I am guided by the Holy Spirit; He will guide me into all truth.
 
OzSpen said:
wondering,

I'd tread carefully here. Arminius was a Dutch Reformed minister, thus making his theology Reformed Arminianism.

Oz
Click to expand...
I don't know who Arminius was.
I don't know who any of these people are that some post.

I know how God is portrayed in the O.T. and N.T.
I know that the revelation of God increased as time went by.
I know that the Apostles taught those that came right after them and these are the Early Church Fathers.

Unless a writer agrees with the above,,,we don't really need to know him.

We have enough on our plate.
 
SolaScriptura said:
Like what? No where in the entire Bible is this devilish nonsense taught
Click to expand...

Like what? You asked for Scripture. Fastfredy0 gave you Scripture.

Now instead of addressing those Scriptures, you ask...like what?

Like the Scriptures given in post #(6). Address them.

'devilish nonsense' is a two way street.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
Like what? You asked for Scripture. Fastfredy0 gave you Scripture.

Now instead of addressing those Scriptures, you ask...like what?

Like the Scriptures given in post #(6). Address them.

'devilish nonsense' is a two way street.

Quantrill
Click to expand...

still no real response to the OP
 
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