The White Horse Rider !

[Cornelius]

Originally posted by Cornelius
The victory is an overcomer's victory.

Exactly!

There is "a crown of victory" (stephanos) and a "winner's ribbon" (toxon) for those who OVERCOME through FAITH in Jesus Christ.

"Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life." (Revelation 2:10)

Amen.

The thing is that people think that "faith in Jesus Christ" means to just believe in Him and that makes you an overcomer. That is obviously not true,because there are only 144000 that manifest Christ as the FIRST fruit (more to follow) So if we only have to believe in Him, (and all Christians say they do) then why are there so few overcomers? Its not just believing in the person of Jesus, but we have to see Him as the Word too. When we believe in him, we have to believe ALL of the Word too, or we are not believing in the real Jesus. This is where many start falling off the bus. The Word is not equated with Jesus anymore in many religious systems. The cornerstone is gone. FEW actually have faith in the Word as THE Word anymore.The ROCK is gone and people are still building............

 

[researcher]

Huh, that's pretty cool.

I checked the Analytical Literal Version and it says:

Rev 6:2 And look! A white horse, and the one sitting on it having a bow,
and a victor's wreath was given to him, and he went out conquering, and so that he should conquer.

Why was a victor's wreath given to him? What did he have victory over? :o :P

Rev 14:14 And I saw. And look! A white cloud, and sitting on the cloud [One] like [the] Son of Humanity, having a golden victor's wreath on His head, and a sharp sickle in His hand.

:P

The victory is an overcomer's victory. The Rider is the Man-child ministry , a group of overcomers (First fruits to overcome)

The Rider is Jesus, but this time its Jesus IN us, not Jesus as one person.

I don't know about the firstfruits to "overcome"..

1Jn 2:14 I wrote to you*, fathers, because you* have come to know the [One who is] from [the] beginning. I wrote to you*, young men, because you* are strong, and the word of God abides in you*, and you* have overcome the evil one.

1Jn 4:4 _You*_ are from God, little children, and you* have overcome them, because greater is the One in you* than the one in the world!

Seems the first ones to "overcome" lived a long time ago. ;)

Who were the first fruits to Jesus?

I'm def. not the first, or the first to overcome. LOL. ;) :D

 

[researcher]

Rev 6:2 And look! A white horse, and the one sitting on it having a bow, and a victor's wreath was given to him, and he went out conquering, and so that he should conquer.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven having been opened. And look! A white horse, and the One sitting on it is being called Faithful and True, and He judges and wages war in righteousness.

Rev 14:14 And I saw. And look! A white cloud, and sitting on the cloud [One] like [the] Son of Humanity, having a golden victor's wreath on His head, and a sharp sickle in His hand.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by researcher
Seems the first ones to "overcome" lived a long time ago.

Who were the first fruits to Jesus?

I'm def. not the first, or the first to overcome.

:D Ha, good conversation. But remember this researcher:

"But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first." (Mark 10:31)

Here's a question I've pondered Cornelius: Concerning the firstfruits, do you believe the sealing of the 144,000 will be determined by character or by timing? In other words, is Jesus waiting for 144,000 people to become totally sanctified and "pure in heart" before He will seal them or is Jesus waiting for the appointed time to arrive to select 144,000 people and manifest Himself in them (seal them)?

 

[researcher]

Originally posted by researcher
Seems the first ones to "overcome" lived a long time ago.

Who were the first fruits to Jesus?

I'm def. not the first, or the first to overcome.

:D Ha, good conversation. But remember this researcher:

"But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first." (Mark 10:31)

Here's a question I've pondered Cornelius: Concerning the firstfruits, do you believe the sealing of the 144,000 will be determined by character or by timing? In other words, is Jesus waiting for 144,000 people to become totally sanctified and "pure in heart" before He will seal them or is Jesus waiting for the appointed time to arrive to select 144,000 people and manifest Himself in them (seal them)?

;) :D TY, Os.

Re: the last will be first.. The last will be the first to what? In the parable the last hired were the first to be paid. Does it mean that they were actually the first ones hired? ;) :D (I floated this by guysmith on another post) ;)

But as for the 144,000, personally I'm of the notion that they were the first of bloodline Israel who believed. Thus the first.. fruits. Jesus was sent only to Israel (Mat 15:24). And many of them believed. Thus, they would be the first... of the fruits. ;) :D

 

[researcher]

Bed calls. It's 3am in California.

Will check in tomorrow for more fun with scripture. ;) :D



:D

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by researcher

The last will be the first to what? In the parable the last hired were the first to be paid. Does it mean that they were actually the first ones hired?

Sounds like you've got it down pretty well researcher.

Matthew 20:6 "And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, 'Why stand ye here all the day idle?' "

Note that it is the eleventh hour, and the Master went out and hired one last group of idle laborers, and there is only time left for one hour of work, and then the day is finished.

Revelation 17:12 "And the ten horns that thou sawest are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet; but they receive authority as kings, with the beast, for one hour."

This "hour" is the Tribulation, and is when the "LAST" group is "hired" (the FIRST-fruits). The 144,000 (firstfruits) are called "servants", and "servants the prophets":

Revelation 7:3,4 "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God. Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel."

Revelation 10:7, 11:15, 18 "But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets. . . . The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in Heaven, which said: ‘The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever. . . .’ The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great – and for destroying those who destroy the Earth."

Revelation 6:11 "Then each of them [the martyrs] was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed."

The firstfruits are "servants" (i.e. they are HIRED). The firstfruits are hired in the eleventh hour (the last hour), which is the "hour of temptation"; the Tribulation; when the ten horns reign with the beast one hour, and God's hired laborers proclaim the Everlasting Gospel during that "eleventh" and "final" hour (1,260 days).

 

[Cornelius]

Originally posted by researcher
Seems the first ones to "overcome" lived a long time ago.

Who were the first fruits to Jesus?

I'm def. not the first, or the first to overcome.

:D Ha, good conversation. But remember this researcher:

"But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first." (Mark 10:31)

Here's a question I've pondered Cornelius: Concerning the firstfruits, do you believe the sealing of the 144,000 will be determined by character or by timing? In other words, is Jesus waiting for 144,000 people to become totally sanctified and "pure in heart" before He will seal them or is Jesus waiting for the appointed time to arrive to select 144,000 people and manifest Himself in them (seal them)?

I think both. God is ultimately in charge and He is the One who has prepared them. He opened their eyes and they have been walking in a personal wilderness through their lives. He tested them there. Just like Moses went to Midian for 40 years (40 = testing). He left Egypt when he was 40, after slaying the Egyptian (symbol of his old nature) So after his "death to self" , he went to be tested for 40 years. So if this type is going to carry through,and it will, then the modern day first fruits are already in their wilderness, about to come out. They come out on the morning of the seventh day/third day/after two days.So they have a "deadline"

I know for sure that the first fruits are living this reality already by faith, because they (like God) see the end from the beginning and they call things which are not, as if they were. They are walking in miracles already now. God is manifesting His Word through them, but not in the mega-churches, this is happening around the world, basically "out of sight". We are about to see a street revival that will rock this planet. but in this revival, we will only see the things that happened in the time of the Bible. Not these crazy things they call revival today.

 

[whirlwind]

Obviously you are welcome to believe that WW. I am simply giving you my belief Since this issue is never agreed upon in other circles, we will also not agree. There are definitely the two views .

Allow me to make one more comment before we agree to disagree.

Yes, white is the color of purity and is symbolic for Jesus and the man child. But, consider that he is coming pretending to be Jesus. God allows him this deception. He won't show up wearing a black hat or red long underwear.

Now...we will agree to disagree and still....you are a precious soul. :yes

I am not sure now, but do still believe the antichrist is a man, or not ? I was under the impression you saw that "he" is also a corporate body. I do not know why you say he will pretend to be Christ. Are you basing it upon this scripture ? Mar 13:6 Many shall come in my name, saying, I am he; and shall lead many astray. If so, I am sure you see "many" (corporate) there.

What I see is that as Jesus is in the man child...Satan is in his group. There is a group and there is an entity. Satan's group are the many that come in the name of Christ...Christian. But...there is still an entity to be reckoned with. (and I will add...what I see is fluid as Scripture is revealed :yes )

Antichrist as "one man" is the letter, and I think by now you know enough to know what the letter does to knowledge and interpretation.

• * Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
  
  Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, (10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I see the [Revelation 19] verse being about Satan's power base and false teachers being taken away but [Revelation 20:7] I see as the actual entity that rebelled against God.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Obviously you are welcome to believe that WW. I am simply giving you my belief Since this issue is never agreed upon in other circles, we will also not agree. There are definitely the two views .

Allow me to make one more comment before we agree to disagree.

Yes, white is the color of purity and is symbolic for Jesus and the man child. But, consider that he is coming pretending to be Jesus. God allows him this deception. He won't show up wearing a black hat or red long underwear.

Now...we will agree to disagree and still....you are a precious soul. :yes

I am not sure now, but do still believe the antichrist is a man, or not ? I was under the impression you saw that "he" is also a corporate body. I do not know why you say he will pretend to be Christ. Are you basing it upon this scripture ? Mar 13:6 Many shall come in my name, saying, I am he; and shall lead many astray. If so, I am sure you see "many" (corporate) there.

Antichrist as "one man" is the letter, and I think by now you know enough to know what the letter does to knowledge and interpretation.

The antichrist is just another name for satan,,,,yes he will come pretending to be Christ,,,,,Thats what his name means (instead of Christ)......He is not a man but a fallen cherub on earth doing miracles telling all he is the Christ.....

 

[Cornelius]

What I see is that as Jesus is in the man child...Satan is in his group. There is a group and there is an entity. Satan's group are the many that come in the name of Christ...Christian. But...there is still an entity to be reckoned with. (and I will add...what I see is fluid as Scripture is revealed :yes )

Does Satan's group then not include all those who are outside of Christ ?
What does the Harlot mean?

• * Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
  
  Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, (10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I see the [Revelation 19] verse being about Satan's power base and false teachers being taken away but [Revelation 20:7] I see as the actual entity that rebelled against God.

But do you see the antichrist as a single man too ? or do you see "him" as a group ?

 

[whirlwind]

Yes, white is the color of purity and is symbolic for Jesus and the man child. But, consider that he is coming pretending to be Jesus. God allows him this deception. He won't show up wearing a black hat or red long underwear.

The 'He' of Revelation 6:2 shows up wearing a crown. Who has the authority to give him a crown? Only God the Father! You have been deceived into believing Jesus is not the Messiah; the exact same sin as the first century pharisees. Truly you have eyes that do not see. The 'He' of Revelation 6:2 is Jesus.

I know that Jesus is the Messiah and I know that the rider of the white horse in [6:2] IS NOT JESUS. Perhaps I don't have eyes to see everything yet but they are being opened and as I peek out I see that it isn't seemly for one child of God to tell another that they are blind to His truth. :naughty

The opening of the seal in which the rider appears was, or will be, accompanied by thunder....which I believe is one of the trumpets. Which one? Does it herald the arrival of Christ at the 7th or of Satan? We know Satan arrives first so that alone should say a great deal.

As you mentioned, he is "given a crown." Consider that when the true Savior arrives..."on His head were many crowns." [Rev.19:12] And, I agree, only our Father has the authority to give a crown. If this is indeed Satan and not Jesus in 6:2....why would He "give" Satan a crown?

• * 11 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
  
  2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

What else does our Father "give" to Satan's crew so there will be "strong delusion?"

• * Revelation 13:5-6 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (7) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindeds, and tongues, and nations.
  
  Luke 4:6 And the devil said unto Him, "All this power will I give Thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

If you wish to believe the white horse rider in 6:2 is Jesus then okay but...I don't.

 

[whirlwind]

What I see is that as Jesus is in the man child...Satan is in his group. There is a group and there is an entity. Satan's group are the many that come in the name of Christ...Christian. But...there is still an entity to be reckoned with. (and I will add...what I see is fluid as Scripture is revealed :yes )

Does Satan's group then not include all those who are outside of Christ ?
What does the Harlot mean?

No, I think not C. There are those that are misled and there are those that purposely mislead. Both are outside of Christ yet one is not of Satan...they are listening to him but they are good people.

I've never considered exactly what the Harlot means. I assume she is false religion, wordly lusts, etc.

[quote:3nrv1ib3]

• * Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
  
  Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, (10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I see the [Revelation 19] verse being about Satan's power base and false teachers being taken away but [Revelation 20:7] I see as the actual entity that rebelled against God.

But do you see the antichrist as a single man too ? or do you see "him" as a group ?[/quote:3nrv1ib3]


A single entity. And, with that entity are many antichrists. As we have our Savior...we have the man child.

To me the anti christ (head of the anti christs) is the devil that tempted Jesus. He wasn't tempted by groups of nasty little individuals but...one single entity.

 

[Cornelius]

No, I think not C. There are those that are misled and there are those that purposely mislead. Both are outside of Christ yet one is not of Satan...they are listening to him but they are good people.

I am trying to picture something.I am seeing myself going into a church filled with people and asking them : "Would all those who would like to be purposely mislead, please stand up and follow the guy in the grey suit "

I've never considered exactly what the Harlot means. I assume she is false religion, wordly lusts, etc.

Well its important to consider her, because she plays a major role in the end times.She is the opposite of the virgin in type. A Harlot, receives "seed" from many men. The Bible calls words, "seed". Believers are also the seed (sperma) that God sends into the world . We are suppose to BE the Word.When you get "sown" into the world, you are suppose to die to self, and through that act, produce a fruit . In this case, somebody else will get 'fertilized" and produce Christ as well (that is , if we are a true "seed" that mirrors the Word perfectly: In their mouth was no lie
The Harlot on the other hand, has no care about the Word being the ONLY Word of God.She adds to it and takes away as she sees fit. You can see the Harlot in type in Jezebel and Potiphar's wife. Jezebel killed the prophets of God and she went after the vineyard of Naboth. (A type for the Harlot , going after God's vineyard.......the true church )

Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a man that was a householder, who planted a vineyard, and set a hedge about it, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into another country.
Mat 21:34 And when the season of the fruits drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, to receive his fruits.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them in like manner.
Mat 21:37 But afterward he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But the husbandmen, when they saw the son, said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and take his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they took him, and cast him forth out of the vineyard, and killed him.
Mat 21:40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen?


Now here is the Beast (Ahab) lusting after the vineyard and the Harlot gets it for him, by using his authority. Same thing will happen, with the Harlot church of our day. She is in bed with the Beast (world system) and she will ultimately use the world system's authority to make a grab for the vineyard of God. Many will fall into her hands.

1Ki 21:7 And Jezebel his wife said unto him, Dost thou now govern the kingdom of Israel? arise, and eat bread, and let thy heart be merry: I will give thee the vineyard of Naboth the Jezreelite.
1Ki 21:8 So she wrote letters in Ahab's name, and sealed them with his seal, and sent the letters unto the elders and to the nobles that were in his city, and that dwelt with Naboth.

 

[Cornelius]

You do know that Satan has been after the "vineyard" forever. We can see this in what he says about his throne being above the stars .Stars are also a word that the Bible uses to describe believers.Abraham's children are likened to the stars.

Isa 14:13 And thou saidst in thy heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; and I will sit upon the mount of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north;

You and I are the "stars of God".Now what did God do to Satan, after that statement of his?

Speaking of man: Psa 8:6 Thou makest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; Thou hast put all things under his feet:

From over the stars, to under the feet.

Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to Sheol, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and worms cover thee.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!

 

[whirlwind]

No, I think not C. There are those that are misled and there are those that purposely mislead. Both are outside of Christ yet one is not of Satan...they are listening to him but they are good people.

I am trying to picture something.I am seeing myself going into a church filled with people and asking them : "Would all those who would like to be purposely mislead, please stand up and follow the guy in the grey suit "

:rolling They don't understand they are being misled. It is deception. For instance take the rapture doctrine. Those filling church pews believe it with their heart and soul. They are misled. For that reason there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth" when the misled realize...they were misled!

• * Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

What does he deceive the world about?

[quote:1xu5gxr7]
I've never considered exactly what the Harlot means. I assume she is false religion, wordly lusts, etc.[/b]

Well its important to consider her, because she plays a major role in the end times.She is the opposite of the virgin in type. A Harlot, receives "seed" from many men. The Bible calls words, "seed". Believers are also the seed (sperma) that God sends into the world . We are suppose to BE the Word.When you get "sown" into the world, you are suppose to die to self, and through that act, produce a fruit . In this case, somebody else will get 'fertilized" and produce Christ as well (that is , if we are a true "seed" that mirrors the Word perfectly: In their mouth was no lie

The Harlot on the other hand, has no care about the Word being the ONLY Word of God.She adds to it and takes away as she sees fit. You can see the Harlot in type in Jezebel and Potiphar's wife. Jezebel killed the prophets of God and she went after the vineyard of Naboth. (A type for the Harlot , going after God's vineyard.......the true church )

Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a man that was a householder, who planted a vineyard, and set a hedge about it, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into another country.
Mat 21:34 And when the season of the fruits drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, to receive his fruits.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them in like manner.
Mat 21:37 But afterward he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But the husbandmen, when they saw the son, said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and take his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they took him, and cast him forth out of the vineyard, and killed him.
Mat 21:40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen?


Now here is the Beast (Ahab) lusting after the vineyard and the Harlot gets it for him, by using his authority. Same thing will happen, with the Harlot church of our day. She is in bed with the Beast (world system) and she will ultimately use the world system's authority to make a grab for the vineyard of God. Many will fall into her hands.

1Ki 21:7 And Jezebel his wife said unto him, Dost thou now govern the kingdom of Israel? arise, and eat bread, and let thy heart be merry: I will give thee the vineyard of Naboth the Jezreelite.
1Ki 21:8 So she wrote letters in Ahab's name, and sealed them with his seal, and sent the letters unto the elders and to the nobles that were in his city, and that dwelt with Naboth. [/quote:1xu5gxr7]


Then I wasn't far off in my assessment.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Cornelius
I think both. God is ultimately in charge and He is the One who has prepared them. He opened their eyes and they have been walking in a personal wilderness through their lives. He tested them there. Just like Moses went to Midian for 40 years (40 = testing). He left Egypt when he was 40, after slaying the Egyptian (symbol of his old nature) So after his "death to self" , he went to be tested for 40 years. So if this type is going to carry through,and it will, then the modern day first fruits are already in their wilderness, about to come out. They come out on the morning of the seventh day/third day/after two days.So they have a "deadline"

I know for sure that the first fruits are living this reality already by faith, because they (like God) see the end from the beginning and they call things which are not, as if they were. They are walking in miracles already now. God is manifesting His Word through them, but not in the mega-churches, this is happening around the world, basically "out of sight". We are about to see a street revival that will rock this planet. but in this revival, we will only see the things that happened in the time of the Bible. Not these crazy things they call revival today.

Great post Cornelius. Some interesting points there. And I'm right there with you concerning "the deadline" :yes. Personally, I believe Jesus is waiting for the appointed time to arrive before selecting and manifesting Himself unto the 144,000. Notice this verse:

Revelation 9:15 "And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind."

My understanding is.... at the appointed time, He will choose the best of the crop (the firstfruits) to be His servants and they will answer His call and be His 'servants the prophets' during the 1,260 days of tribulation. Jesus is waiting for the appointed time of the end to arrive (Daniel 8:19), the time set by the Father (Acts 1:7). When we get close to the day that is 1,335 days from the end, the 144,000 will be selected and sealed and the delay decreed in Revelation 7:3 will end right on time.

When you think about it, Jesus could have sealed 144,000 people years ago (centuries) if He chose to, because at any time throughout history, there were enough people alive who loved the Lord with all their hearts, mind, and soul (lived by faith - the qualification).

I don't believe (as some do) Jesus is waiting for 144,000 people to become "pure" before He manifests Himself within them (seals). If Jesus was waiting for 144,000 people to become pure, you could argue the Great Tribulation will never start because a sinner cannot become pure while in the flesh. The best we can do is to periodically subdue our fleshly desires through the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit. It is God who eliminates the carnal nature, along with all its needs and desires. By the time the Seventh Trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:15-19), God will have placed His seal upon everyone who lives by faith (Revelation 10:7). The 144,000 will be the first to experience the complete elimination of the fleshly nature, and afterwards, those who pass the test of faith (numberless multitude) will experience this during the Tribulation. Once everyone who CAN BE sealed is sealed, the door is shut (no further possibility for salvation), and the Seventh Trumpet sounds. For 1,260 days, the 144,000 faithfully extended Christ's offer of salvation to ALL people, and every person has made his or her decision. Game over. The Seven Bowls are poured out upon the wicked, and THEN Jesus physically appears TO ALL.

 

[Cornelius]

As far as the “when†is concerned, I think I see in Rev 12 that the man child is born (or the sealing of the 144000) before the first three and a half years:

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast down to the earth, he persecuted the woman that brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And there were given to the woman the two wings of the great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness unto her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

So the church(woman) gets nourished with the true Word again,for a time and times and half a time. So the 144000 are here at this moment. It just makes sense too, that the Lord will supply the church with this new leadership at the beginning of the tribulation. The gospel will go forth during the first half and the “two witnesses†(Groups of believers sent out by the Man-child ministry) are protected during this time from harm.

Rev 11:3 And I will give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, (First half of the Tribulation ) clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the Lord of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man desireth to hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth and devoureth their enemies; and if any man shall desire to hurt them, in this manner must he be killed.

After this first three and half years, they get killed by the Beast. Then after another three and half years , they come to life at the last trumpet, together with the rest of those who are part of the first resurrection.
Rev 11:11 And after the three days and a half (Second half, because they were preachingfor the first half)) the breath of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet;( first resurrection of the dead) and great fear fell upon them that beheld them.

Seven years, with two halves.The last half,will be the worst for Christians.

 

[Cornelius]

The most difficult thing for me to write about is the "living by faith" thing. I think the best example we have is to look at the type for the two witnesses in the time of Jesus. They were living by faith in a very real sense.

Mar 6:7 And he calleth unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two;(Two witnesses ) and he gave them authority over the unclean spirits;
Mar 6:8 and he charged them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no bread, no wallet, no money in their purse;
Mar 6:9 but to go shod with sandals: and, said he, put not on two coats.

Look carefully and you will see that Jesus took away their ability to look after themselves ! He wanted them weak in the flesh. Not in a religious way, but in a REAL way. NO ARM OF THE FLESH allowed .This is something that scares us totally. Me included.

Jer 17:5 Thus saith Jehovah: Cursed is the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from Jehovah.


The Man-child ministry are those who overcame in more ways than one. These people have learned the secret of how to release the power of God in their normal lives. God reacts on their faith. They have learned to use their faith to bring a real plate of real food to a real table, without lifting a finger. Strange as this might seem to the modern believer, this is totally possible and we all have to learn how to do this. No money, no wallet, (so money is mentioned TWICE) no bread. NO supply other than your faith in the ability of God to save and provide and protect.

 

[Cornelius]

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and to-day, yea and for ever. Mar 6:8 and he charged them that they should take nothing for their journey

When we look at it like this, we can see how the number 144000 makes more sense now.There are not many who can walk this way YET. The first fruits will though. That is why they "nourish" the woman(church) in the wilderness (tribulation) because the Bride and the rest of the church also needs to walk in this faith. Those who cannot walk in this kind of faith, will not be able to survive the tribulation. We must overcome famine, sickness, war, earthquakes, evil people. If not with this kind of faith, then with nothing at all. Real faith, the kind that fixes your car, your body, provides food and water and protection, is what will separate the saints, from the world and apostate Christianity.

This is the crux of Christianity and also something that is denied by most Christians.

It was prophesied that the man-child teaching (which Jesus is a sign of) will be spoken against. Not just the man-child , but all which it stands for. Even this faith, which I am speaking about.

Luk 2:34 and Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the falling and the rising of many in Israel; and for a sign which is spoken against;