The Work of Repentance Versus Faith Only

[Ernest T. Bass]

On another forum, I made the argument that the very idea of repentance requires restitution/reparation. So if you steal your neighbors horse and repent, then true repentance requires you to return the stolen horse else you have not truly repented/changed. If you do not have to return the horse and it is acceptable to keep the stolen horse, then what would you have to repent of?

Those on the other side, mostly of the 'faith only' persuasion argued one does not have to return the horse. They argued essentially that if repentance requires a work, then I would have a "works based salvation". And that if my salvation hinged upon the work of returning the horse, then I would be trying to earn/merit my salvation by returning the stolen horse, therefore I could keep it.


What say you :

 

[farouk]

Romans 2 says, 'the goodness of God bringeth thee to repentance'. In other words, we are responsible to repent, but it's a work of God, in which no human merit is involved.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Romans 2 says, 'the goodness of God bringeth thee to repentance'. In other words, we are responsible to repent, but it's a work of God, in which no human merit is involved.

??
Are you saying repentance is a work that God does? If so, what sin does God have to repent of?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Repentance is a Gift given to God's People when Christ saves them ! Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Repentance is a Gift given to God's People when Christ saves them ! Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

So where does the bible teach that people will first be saved while they remain in their unrepented sins? Are you also suggesting the Christian can steal all he cares to and does not have to repent at all?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds." (Acts 26:20 NIV)


IOW...return the horse in keeping with your change of mind (repentance) about what you did wrong.

 

[savedbygrace57]

So where does the bible teach that people will first be saved while they remain in their unrepented sins? Are you also suggesting the Christian can steal all he cares to and does not have to repent at all?

I just shared with you what the scripture says. Repentance is a Gift given by Christ to His Chosen People Israel Acts 5:31

Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I'd say returning the horse would be proof of repentance.

 

[reba]

Some things are not an simple to return like a horse.

How does one tack back rude comments? Do we literally eat our words.

 

[John O]

Some things are not an simple to return like a horse.

How does one tack back rude comments? Do we literally eat our words.

Yes Reba I agree. If it was within our power to restore that in itself is not necessarily of God (not that I am discounting that God may require it of us and prompt us to do so) but so many things are not within the our power to restore.

The murderer who at the realization of what they have done sincerely repents but nothing brings back the murdered person. The child molester who under the conviction of the Holy Spirit repents though he is desiring to restore all nothing can restore the children damaged (God can mercifully touch their minds to heal the hurt but it does not remove what happened).

John O

 

[reba]

Restoration is a OT concept and a good one. When we follow the command of loving our neighbours restoring what is owed is right.... Right on all counts....

Some things just cant be restored if we are not forgiven until we do something we are all doomed to hell.... Some where in out past is something we should have have that we have forgotten... Praise the Lord God for His wonderful Mercy and Grace

 

[Elijah674]

On another forum, I made the argument that the very idea of repentance requires restitution/reparation. So if you steal your neighbors horse and repent, then true repentance requires you to return the stolen horse else you have not truly repented/changed. If you do not have to return the horse and it is acceptable to keep the stolen horse, then what would you have to repent of?

Those on the other side, mostly of the 'faith only' persuasion argued one does not have to return the horse. They argued essentially that if repentance requires a work, then I would have a "works based salvation". And that if my salvation hinged upon the work of returning the horse, then I would be trying to earn/merit my salvation by returning the stolen horse, therefore I could keep it.


What say you :

What does God say is the answer. Great post! Maybe some will AWAKEN YET!

 

[Elijah674]

On another forum, I made the argument that the very idea of repentance requires restitution/reparation. So if you steal your neighbors horse and repent, then true repentance requires you to return the stolen horse else you have not truly repented/changed. If you do not have to return the horse and it is acceptable to keep the stolen horse, then what would you have to repent of?

Those on the other side, mostly of the 'faith only' persuasion argued one does not have to return the horse. They argued essentially that if repentance requires a work, then I would have a "works based salvation". And that if my salvation hinged upon the work of returning the horse, then I would be trying to earn/merit my salvation by returning the stolen horse, therefore I could keep it.


What say you :

One post on the site says this...

Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

And as I find it, all of this seriously false above stuff will need to be openly [retracted] by us or them before any saving Faith can be found! Rom. 8:1='s ibid 14!

God is not playing with rubber bullet's in His WARNINGS! Eccl. 3:14 + Rev. 22:18-19 IF the name was ever recorded in the Book of Life to begin with.

--Elijah

 

[Kidron]

On another forum, I made the argument that the very idea of repentance requires restitution/reparation. So if you steal your neighbors horse and repent, then true repentance requires you to return the stolen horse else you have not truly repented/changed. If you do not have to return the horse and it is acceptable to keep the stolen horse, then what would you have to repent of?

Those on the other side, mostly of the 'faith only' persuasion argued one does not have to return the horse. They argued essentially that if repentance requires a work, then I would have a "works based salvation". And that if my salvation hinged upon the work of returning the horse, then I would be trying to earn/merit my salvation by returning the stolen horse, therefore I could keep it.


What say you :

"Repentance theology" has the same issue that "water baptism" theology has ,which is to say...
That both have concluded wrongly that salavation is "Jesus/Cross + something you do = salvation.
And the fact is, nothing but your faith the shed blood of Jesus, his death and his resurrection, can purge, remit, and forgive, your sins.
"without the shedding of blood there is no remission", there is no pardon, no justification, = no forgiveness.

So, here is what destroyed once and for all "water baptism" salvation heresy, ...."repentance salvation" theology, and any other type of WORKS TO BE SAVED salvation attempt that Paul wrote the book of Galatians to expose as false and "cursed".

There was a dying thief on a cross.
According to the words of Jesus, this thief ended up with Christ.
This thief was not water baptised, and he restored nothing he stole after he believed on the Lord.
And he was a "thief", unless the bible made a mistake.
He restored nothing he stole after he trusted Christ, and he was not water baptised after they broke his legs and he died.
He then ended up with Jesus, unless the bible is lying.
I wouldn't count on that.

So, from this, we discover that all theology that states that a death bed conversion is not possible, is false, and all theology which claims you cant be saved without water baptism or that water baptism saves you...is found to be false.....entirely false.

So, if you are trusting in anything but Christ alone through your faith to be saved, you are caught up in a cult theology, a false theology, and i hope you can see the light and escape asap.

Now, if you want to hear a clever liar lie openly, then just listen to one try to explain why YOU have to be water baptised to be saved, while the thief on the Cross didnt have to do it.
Talk about a fog of lies.
You should hear some of the stuff they will tell you to try to dodge, duck, ignore, and deny, the truth.





K

 

[Webb]

Good morning Kidron. On post # 14 you write: ''AND THE FACT IS, NOTHING BUT YOUR FAITH THE SHED BLOOD OF JESUS, HIS DEATH AND HIS RESURRECTION, CAN PURGE, REMIT, AND FORGIVE, YOUR SINS.''

Now all you have to do for us is find that in the Bible. It isn't there, is it? No, not even once. You said ''NOTHINHG" and in so doing negated your LOOOOONG post.

Care to debate this on the one-on-one???

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

"I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds." (Acts 26:20 NIV)


IOW...return the horse in keeping with your change of mind (repentance) about what you did wrong.

So returning the horse is a deed, a work that is a necessary deed or else one is not repentant of his thief and will be lost.

Yet the faith only crowd will say if one's salvation is conditional upon works then he has a works based theology and is trying to earn savlation by returning the horse. They put themselves in the bad position of saying one can keep the stolen horse and still be justified.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Some things are not an simple to return like a horse.

How does one tack back rude comments? Do we literally eat our words.

All sins may not cause physical or monetary damage to another so all sins may not require restitution/reparation. I am dealing with sins such as theft that would require restitution/reparation. So can you keep a stolen horse and say you have truly repented or must you do the work or returning the stolen horse or else be lost because of theft, 1 Cor 6:9,10?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

"Repentance theology" has the same issue that "water baptism" theology has ,which is to say...
That both have concluded wrongly that salavation is "Jesus/Cross + something you do = salvation.
And the fact is, nothing but your faith the shed blood of Jesus, his death and his resurrection, can purge, remit, and forgive, your sins.
"without the shedding of blood there is no remission", there is no pardon, no justification, = no forgiveness.

So, here is what destroyed once and for all "water baptism" salvation heresy, ...."repentance salvation" theology, and any other type of WORKS TO BE SAVED salvation attempt that Paul wrote the book of Galatians to expose as false and "cursed".

There was a dying thief on a cross.
According to the words of Jesus, this thief ended up with Christ.
This thief was not water baptised, and he restored nothing he stole after he believed on the Lord.
And he was a "thief", unless the bible made a mistake.
He restored nothing he stole after he trusted Christ, and he was not water baptised after they broke his legs and he died.
He then ended up with Jesus, unless the bible is lying.
I wouldn't count on that.

So, from this, we discover that all theology that states that a death bed conversion is not possible, is false, and all theology which claims you cant be saved without water baptism or that water baptism saves you...is found to be false.....entirely false.

So, if you are trusting in anything but Christ alone through your faith to be saved, you are caught up in a cult theology, a false theology, and i hope you can see the light and escape asap.

Now, if you want to hear a clever liar lie openly, then just listen to one try to explain why YOU have to be water baptised to be saved, while the thief on the Cross didnt have to do it.
Talk about a fog of lies.
You should hear some of the stuff they will tell you to try to dodge, duck, ignore, and deny, the truth.





K

So you are essentially saying one can be a thief and still enter the kingdom of heaven 1 Cor 6:9,10, correct?

 

[savedbygrace57]

If one says they are saved because they did the work of repentance , then they claim salvation by their works, which is against scripture !

 

[Danus]

All sins may not cause physical or monetary damage to another so all sins may not require restitution/reparation. I am dealing with sins such as theft that would require restitution/reparation. So can you keep a stolen horse and say you have truly repented or must you do the work or returning the stolen horse or else be lost because of theft, 1 Cor 6:9,10?

To say that repentance, restitution or reparation are the same, or even in similar venue to God's salvation on us, is to create a false dichotomy. They are not the same.

Salvation is from God, to those he will save. Those whom He chooses to save will be saved, and anyone who seeks Him can find Him, and receive salvation, but not all are saved. Either they don't seek him, they are left in their own condition, or they reject Him.

All are guilty, but those saved, are saved from the judgment of God. The judgment due all men for their sins, saved or not, but the saved are saved by GRACE, which is to say they are forgiven. That they are forgiven means they owe nothing because the payment has already been made for them. It is a cost they can not afford anyway. We do not have what it takes to pay the price. That's the point of Grace and forgiveness, and we are made new in that, and that alone, not of what we do.

However, there are many who do not see the Gospel in this way, and believe it to be a dutiful effort on the part of the one to be saved, and not a gift. They will say that God helps the saved to be saved, or maintain their salvation. What does that require? The bible says 100% perfection. Those following this understanding will repent again and again and again for rebirth, not so much out of love for God, but rather fear of His judgment against them. Their faith lies manly in their own effort to be perfect like Christ. 100% rather than in the saving work of Jesus Christ, and they will forever attempt to pay off a debt they can not afford.

That's the difference between imputed righteousness, which the bible speaks of, and this notion of infused righteousness which there is no mention of in the bible.