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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
The wrath of God?
- Thread starter mutzrein
- Start date
Vic C.
Member
- Mar 16, 2003
- 18,227
- 4
I'm sure he did, except, the question was asked after two of us gave "amswers". If you can't accept what we posted on page one and what Atonement posted above, no amount of scripture will convince. Thus, you will continue to understand this the way you do now, instead of achieving the hope and assurance found only in the Good News.
You know the word, you heard the Gospel, now what you do with it is what you should be concerned about; not those who have died never hearing the Word. Their fate is for God and God alone to sort out.
2 Tim 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
I liked your answer. It was pretty much what I was thinking.Ambient said:
I was kind of hoping it could be addressed in a logical way. For example, could a Christian say that the only way to the Father is through the Son and still believe there are other ways? Could such a direct contradiction be stated in such an obvious fashion and still be believed?
I think that Christians try to confuse the issue so this contradiction is not so clear but it still remains. So if a Christian feels they have this issue solved, I would like to know if they think that no one comes to the father except through Jesus. Can they answer this "yes" and justify children going to hell? Or do they answer it "no" and say that John 14:6 is not entirely true?
Then you are claiming the rules for salvation are not really known. This is a claim that the Bible is incomplete because how can you try to convert people to Christianity when you have no idea what happens to them if they die. For all you know, you could be making their situation worse. If ignorance of Jesus can lead people to a good afterlife, then why mess that up?Vic C. said:
Quath said, "If ignorance of Jesus can lead people to a good afterlife, then why mess that up?"
This is an excellent question. By actually bringing the "good news" to foreign soil, you are helping in the doom of billions of people who would have otherwise remained ignorant of God, and ignorant of their path in life.
This is an excellent question. By actually bringing the "good news" to foreign soil, you are helping in the doom of billions of people who would have otherwise remained ignorant of God, and ignorant of their path in life.
Vic C.
Member
- Mar 16, 2003
- 18,227
- 4
Either you both missed the point or you just aren't getting it. No where did I even say what you are implying.Ambient said:
There is no contradiction. Since God through Jesus, is the one who will be judging, no one will be able to come to the Father any other way. You are creating a contradiction where none exists. Instead of arguing the same point over and over, please read this and come back with what you think it is saying:
Romans 2 (LITV)
13 For not the hearers of the Law are just with God, but the doers of the Law shall be justified.
14 For when nations not having Law do by nature the things of the Law, they not having Law are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience witnessing with them, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing,
16 in a day when God judges the hidden things of men, according to my gospel, through Jesus Christ.
One more thing, we are not dooming people when spreading the Word; we are letting them know that the fires of judgement may not be on their side unless one is born again. Basically, those who never hear the word may stand a better chance than those who hear, yet reject.
Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
I never stated it as a contradiction. Mearly a problem with the "people who have never heard". If salvation ONLY comes through Jesus, and a person's acceptance of it, then they (those who have not heard) would be eternally lost. Any favoritism for them would be unfair if they are allowed to make the decision AFTER death and others are not. BECAUSE they would not be "believing by faith", whereas those who are told WILL have only the "belief by fath", since there is no evidence of God's existance.
So, it isn't a contradiction that I am pointing out, but an issue with the "plan of salvation".
So, it isn't a contradiction that I am pointing out, but an issue with the "plan of salvation".
Atonement
Member
- Sep 13, 2002
- 2,755
- 79
Ambient,
Who are you to judge how God will judge a man or not? Your making a point that has no point to the reader. How can you say that people are eternally lost that have not heard the Word? Do you have proof of this according to Scripture? You are in a sense questioning God's authority of God. Worry about you, your family, those you love, and your friends and community, let God work out His will to mankind, by using mankind.. I would suggest a book for you to read I have it and it's a short book one that can be finished less then a week. It's called "Don't sweat the small stuff!" Check it out.. You two are making a mountain out of a moll hill..
Who are you to judge how God will judge a man or not? Your making a point that has no point to the reader. How can you say that people are eternally lost that have not heard the Word? Do you have proof of this according to Scripture? You are in a sense questioning God's authority of God. Worry about you, your family, those you love, and your friends and community, let God work out His will to mankind, by using mankind.. I would suggest a book for you to read I have it and it's a short book one that can be finished less then a week. It's called "Don't sweat the small stuff!" Check it out.. You two are making a mountain out of a moll hill..
I am going by common Christian theology which interprets John 16:6 as saying that you have to know Jesus to make it to heaven. Maybe John 3:16 would have been a better passage to point out for this.Vic C. said:
I have seen many Christians look at the same part of the Bible and come out with different meanings. What I am curious about is how you see it.
So it seems you are saying that belief in Jesus is not necessary to go to heaven. If that is wrong, let me know. Lets call this person Bob, who never heard of Jesus.
So Bob dies and appears before God/Jesus for judgement. How will God judge Bob? After all, Bob is a sinner like everyone else and must pay the punishment of sin like everyone else. According to most Christian theology, Jesus is like a lawyer that represents you and gets you off the charges and into heaven. According to most Christian theology, you can not make it to heaven without Jesus representing you.
So Bob doesn't know Jesus from any other deity conceived. How does God judge him? Good behavior doesn't seem to work because heaven is supposed to be filled with believers, not good people (by most Christian theology). If Bob gets in for being an ok guy, then God is cruel to all the other ok guys that heard a passing reference to Jesus but never believed it.
I guess I am trying to see where you disagree with most Christian theology that I have heard. I think if you analysize it out, either the Bible is false or God is cruel.
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