There is an alternative to trinitarianism/ non-trinitarianism.

[Dmytro]

The orthodox RCC says that God died.
The orthodox Protestant Church says only the flesh of Jesus died.
The Bible says Jesus died.

Yes, Jesus died. He was in Sheol and death and was delivered from there by the Father through the mighty work of the Spirit. He died solely because such was his Father’s plan: to die for us.

 

[Mustard Seed]

I got your point. Here is what I believe:

• That the Father is the only true God, his name is Yahweh. He’s the one who revealed himself to us in OT.
• Jesus is a person and being. He’s equal to the Father in terms of nature, he always was and always will be, everything the Father is doing he’s doing through Jesus, the Father handed over everything he had to Jesus’.

This is what I believe to be the message of Jesus confirmed to us by the Father. So let’s discuss?

Dmytro, it is confusing to say that "The Father is the only True God". This is a "Unitarian" Statement. It is not your belief system.

If you believe that the Son has Always existed and Never not Existed and is the very TRUE FACE of God (Which is exactly what all scripture reveals).... You, in your Heart, know that The Son is TRUE God.

Jesus revealed Himself "Subordinate" to His Father to demonstrate that HIS FATHER is HUMBLE. If God came to earth outright saying... back off Jack... I'm the King of Kings, Bow down plebes... He would not have been demonstrating HIS (His Father's) true character. Jesus revealed that THE FATHER was IN HIM.

I will make this more clear.

We have the Holy Spirit of the Son, within us.
Jesus had the very Spirit of His Father, within Him.

Jesus Christ is the HEAD of us.
The Father is the HEAD of Jesus Christ.

If we declare that The Father is OUR HEAD, we would then be saying that WE are TRUE GOD.
If we declare that The Son is OUR HEAD, we are saying that we are "by choice", Slave to the one TRUE GOD, but that we are NOT GOD.

If we were to say that THE FATHER is the very SPIRIT within us, We would be saying that to SEE us is to See the FATHER.
If we say that the Holy Ghost of Jesus is the very SPIRIT within us, we are saying that imperfect us, is indwelled by the Provision of the FATHER, which is the Holy Spirit of HIS Son.

It doesn't seem like a big deal, but one belief bypasses our need for Jesus, while the other one, SPIRITUALLY BINDS us to Jesus metaphorically as surely as Lover's are "One Flesh". By being Bone of Christ's Bone, we are Grafted in to Jesus, Who is and always has been Directly OF His Father (with the exception of "Father why have You forsaken me", which was for our sakes)

 

[LeviR]

Yes, Jesus died. He was in Sheol and death and was delivered from there by the Father through the mighty work of the Spirit. He died solely because such was his Father’s plan: to die for us.

To say that Jesus died is to say Jesus was mortal. How did Jesus become mortal?

 

[Mustard Seed]

To say that Jesus died is to say Jesus was mortal. How did Jesus become mortal?

The Physical Presence of God, The Son, Died. The Infinite Essence of God, The Father remained in Heaven. Dmytro nails the rest down, excellently, in his quote, below.

Yes, Jesus died. He was in Sheol and death and was delivered from there by the Father through the mighty work of the Spirit. He died solely because such was his Father’s plan: to die for us.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Yes , Jesus on this day 05/30/2024 Has ALL POWER of God the Father.
And having ALL POWER of God the Father He knows ALL THINGS.
ALL THINGS , includes the " Day and the hour" by the way .
That's a yes or a no by the way .

Mat 28:18
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Not according to Scripture. Jesus doesn't have the power or authority of God such as in Matthew 24:36 or Acts 1:7.

Matthew 24
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only

Acts 1
7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

So if it was not the Father's Power as you claim, exactly whose Power was it that Jesus was given ALL of ?

Mat 28:18
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

 

[Consecrated Life]

No matter how hard you hit them with the truth, they don’t like it.

So if it was not the Father's Power as you claim, exactly whose Power was it that Jesus was given ALL of ?

Mat 28:18
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

 

[Mustard Seed]

No matter how hard you hit them with the truth, they don’t like it.

Jesus literally declared Himself the Living TRUTH. Are you an Adoptionist?

 

[Randy]

To say that Jesus died is to say Jesus was mortal. How did Jesus become mortal?

The Logos became flesh that is a body was prepared for "Him".
Man was only able to kill His body according to the power given over Jesus from above to fulfill the Fathers will to reconcile all things to Himself through Christs blood on the cross as beforehand in the garden Jesus submitted to His Fathers will.

For Christ also suffered for sins once for all time, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

If you're a biblical unitarian, (?), then you believe Jesus is a glorified man and did not come from above as one above all as a being noted as God with the Father from the beginning, but this is not a unitarian forum so I expect there would be continuous disagreement on that issue.

"Father into your hands I commit "My spirit"

 

[LeviR]

So if it was not the Father's Power as you claim, exactly whose Power was it that Jesus was given ALL of ?

Mat 28:18
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

The Scripture tells us. Jesus has been given all power or authority over all the angels in heaven and all persons on earth and those under the earth(the dead).

 

[Consecrated Life]

The Scripture tells us. Jesus has been given all power or authority over all the angels in heaven and all persons on earth and those under the earth(the dead).

The risen Lord that I know had no need to break His given Power down into any categories .
Not sure about this Lord that you worship .
"ALL" means ALL .

Mat 28:18
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

That covers it ALL.
Comprehension of the Basic King's English is certainly a pervasive problem among certain severely circumscribed theologies on this website .
You must have all gone to the same grade school I suspect.
He said ALL POWER in the universe is now His .......PERIOD !

I would not want to be in the category of people you include yourself in when you confess that you find the All-mighty nature of the Risen Lord to be something that He was not .

 

[LeviR]

For Christ also suffered for sins once for all time, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

What does “made alive in the spirit mean”?

Was his spirit dead?

Here is the true sense of the Greek:

“Having been truly put to death in the flesh, but given life by the Spirit.”
It refers to dying and being raised from the dead by the Spirit of the Father.

 

[LeviR]

The risen Lord that I know had no need to break His given Power down into any categories .
"ALL" means ALL .
That covers it ALL.
Comprehension of the Basic King's English is certainly a pervasive problem among certain severely circumscribed theologies on this website .
You must have all gone to the same grade school I suspect.
He said ALL POWER in the universe is now His .......PERIOD !

Mat 28:18
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

I would not want to be in the category of people you include yourself in when you confess that you find the All-mighty nature of the Risen Lord to be something that He was not .

Look, you choose to reject what even Trinitarian biased translations don’t. Omit the text if you choose.

 

[Mustard Seed]

Look, you choose to reject what even Trinitarian biased translations don’t. Omit the text if you choose.

You are an Adoptionist! I'm almost positive! Please confirm or deny.

 

[LeviR]

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

That means to not fear those who can kill you but not completely take your life away. But fear God because He can raise you from the dead to face a second death from which there is no more resurrection.
A man can kill you and take your life, but not completely if you are a believer because God can raise your life again and give you life eternal.

Soul = Life

 

[Mustard Seed]

That means to not fear those who can kill you but not completely take your life away. But fear God because He can raise you from the dead to face a second death from which there is no more resurrection.
A man can kill you and take your life, but not completely if you are a believer because God can raise your life again and give you life eternal.

Soul = Life

I would go a step further and say that the soul is immortal and only the Creator of it can "Destroy it". But, I think we lean differently, as you believe the soul ceases, when the tent collapses, while I believe in Sheol and Heaven being places of current residence.

 

[LeviR]

You are an Adoptionist! I'm almost positive! Please confirm or deny.

Jesus was first son of God in weakness of the flesh. He was raised son of God in power of eternal life.
If you read Acts where it’s quoted “today have I begotten you”, it refers to his resurrection.
Believers are said to be sons of God but it does not yet appear what we will be like, but when he appears we will be like him.
He was like us, and we will be like him.
From weakness to strength.
From death to life.
From mortal to immortal.
From a natural body to a spiritual body.

 

[Mustard Seed]

Jesus was first son of God in weakness of the flesh. He was raised son of God in power of eternal life.
If you read Acts where it’s quoted “today have I begotten you”, it refers to his resurrection.
Believers are said to be sons of God but it does not yet appear what we will be like, but when he appears we will be like him.
He was like us, and we will be like him.
From weakness to strength.
From death to life.
From mortal to immortal.
From a natural body to a spiritual body.

Do you believe that we are under the Law of Moses? Deuteronomy 4 - Deuteronomy 31:26

 

[LeviR]

I would go a step further and say that the soul is immortal and only the Creator of it can "Destroy it". But, I think we lean differently, as you believe the soul ceases, when the tent collapses, while I believe in Sheol and Heaven being places of current residence.

If the soul is immortal no one can kill it. By very definition, an immortal soul never dies.

The soul that sins shall die.
The soul is immortal and never dies.
Huh.

 

[LeviR]

Nowhere in scripture is found “immortal soul” , “never dying soul” or anything similar.

 

[LeviR]

Do you believe that we are under the Law of Moses? Deuteronomy 4 - Deuteronomy 31:26

No, just the unbelieving Jews.
God gave His laws to them only.