There is an alternative to trinitarianism/ non-trinitarianism.

[Consecrated Life]

“Here is My Servant, whom I uphold, My Chosen One, in whom My soul delights. I will put My Spirit on Him, and He will bring justice to the nations.”

Jesus is God’s servant

Lets cut to the chase right now , in your theology does Jesus Christ this day, 05/29/2024 , Know the "Day and Hour" ?
Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

That's a YES or a NO by the way ?
Don't get all slippery on me now with another long drawn out slithering ambiguous answer, composed entirely of personal opinion rather than scripture, to a basic question that your theology constantly forces you into.

 

[LeviR]

Lets cut to the chase right now , in your theology does Jesus Christ this day, 05/29/2024 , Know the "Day and Hour" ?
Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

That's a YES or a NO by the way ?
Don't get all slippery on me now with another long drawn out slithering ambiguous answer, composed entirely of personal opinion rather than scripture, to a basic question that your theology constantly forces you into.

Jesus says he does not know.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The way you're framing your question is that this is my theology rather than me simply bearing witness of what Jesus said. The answer to your question came directly from Jesus in the very verse you quoted, Matthew 24:36.

Do you see where Jesus isn't omniscient nor aware of the day or hour he returns?

Bottom line, the answer is no.

To Afraid to answer a straight up for yourself simple yes or no .
How proud the Lord must of you speaking of Him in such a slippery , slithering , ambiguousness fashion

Lets cut to the chase right now , in your theology does Jesus Christ this day, 05/29/2024 , Know the "Day and Hour" ?
Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

That's a YES or a NO by the way ?
Don't get all slippery on me now with another long drawn out slithering ambiguous answer, composed entirely of personal opinion rather than scripture, to a basic question that your theology constantly forces you into.

 

[LeviR]

Lets cut to the chase right now , in your theology does Jesus Christ this day, 05/29/2024 , Know the "Day and Hour" ?
Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

That's a YES or a NO by the way ?
Don't get all slippery on me now with another long drawn out slithering ambiguous answer, composed entirely of personal opinion rather than scripture, to a basic question that your theology constantly forces you into.

That’s interesting. Every translation has “nor the son” or “neither the son”, but you omit it. Even the Trinitarian biased NIV has it.
It’s obvious you don’t like it there. Hmmmm.

 

[Runningman]

That’s interesting. Every translation has “nor the son” or “neither the son”, but you omit it. Even the Trinitarian biased NIV has it.
It’s obvious you don’t like it there. Hmmmm.

and yet he said I am "slippery, slithering" lol. When someone accuses someone of something, 9/10 times I have noticed that's a clue they are either doing what they accuse you of or are about to.

 

[Runningman]

Lets cut to the chase right now , in your theology does Jesus Christ this day, 05/29/2024 , Know the "Day and Hour" ?
Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

That's a YES or a NO by the way ?
Don't get all slippery on me now with another long drawn out slithering ambiguous answer, composed entirely of personal opinion rather than scripture, to a basic question that your theology constantly forces you into.

No. "my Father only" i,e., not the Son or anyone else for that matter.

Now my turn and don't get slippery on me.

The Father is the only one who knows? YES OR NO.

Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[brother Paul]

I call myself a Christian, neither trinitarian nor non-trinitarian because:

• Non-trinitarians. This is true with the ones I had discussions with, they try to undermine trinity concept because simply don't believe Jesus is God by nature. Also they tend not to believe the Holy Spirit is a person. Although some of their arguments make sense pointing out a controversy of trinity doctrine, their motivation is wrong and in my opinion they are just another kind of watchtower society members. Their attitude towards Jesus, the way they dishonour him ignoring clear scriptural and logical arguments looks the same. I consider them wrong and in a dangerous delusion if not even more.
• Trinitarians. Many of them have difficulties acknowledging the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are persons in a common meaning of the word. Others say Jesus and the Farther are the same person and so on and so forth. In my opinion this concept introduces some other being apart from the holy Three who revealed themself to us while making the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit inferior. This is wrong and is a delusion if not even more, but at least they don't deny Jesus and the Holy Spirit so there is some room for a conversation.

I personally stand on this: in both Old and New testament only these three equally divine persons revealed themselves to us:

• Yahweh God, the Father
• Jesus Christ his Son and our Lord
• the Holy Spirit

Not everything is crystal clear to me, there's still a lot to know, but I believe this is how it is supposed to be on the way to knowing the truth. So let's move further from basics and instead of wasting time proving Jesus is God by nature, which is obvious to everyone who is sincere and true, let's better try to think and calmly discuss what, in your opinion, is wrong with this plain and clear belief.

Please, in order not to waste time, do not express your opinions unless agree on basics: the Father is God, Jesus Christ is God by nature, the Holy Spirit is a person and God by nature.

The conceptual language of Nicea is the key and it is not that differrent from what we see in the mid-first century Targum of Jonathan ben-Uzziel and the early 2nd century Targun of Onkelos. It is that they understood God to be one Ousia in three Hypostases. Do any of you know what is meant by the term Hypostases? The origiinal Latin translation of that term in Personnae. Do any know what this means? They are the same term in a diferrent tongue. It means that the original Trinitarian concept is One and only One God who has revealed Himself (His ony one self) as manifest in three farms (the Father, the Son/Word, and the Holy Spirrt). One not three or as Athanasius put it One God in three personnae and the three as one. We should not make Him three but one as three and not confuse the order. But later, some Trinitarians lost the one and worshipped the three as separate beings. This is not the concept understood by the Bishops of the Nicean council. Be blessed...there is only one God. Jesus is the human baby that God became incarnate IN. As the Son He is God, the very creator manifest to us in a way we humans can comprehend (He brews 1) but as Jesus He is man made a little lower than the angels (Hebrews 2) that God dwelt (pitched tent - John 1) within. He is the fulness of God BODILY. The one and ONLY YHVH was "in Him reconciling the world to Himself". That is the word of God.

 

[Mustard Seed]

That’s interesting. Every translation has “nor the son” or “neither the son”, but you omit it. Even the Trinitarian biased NIV has it.
It’s obvious you don’t like it there. Hmmmm.

God isn't the blind Omniscient Beast of flatlined existence in emotion and experience that any of the Theosophical ISMs declare Him to be.

That's not the first place that YHWH didn't know a thing.

Jeremiah 19:5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not nor spoke it, neither came it into My mind.

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.”

God can CHOOSE to not know a thing. God has always been God. Jesus is the very Marriage of God to His Creation. That's scripture. Ephesians calls us Bone of HIS Bone for a Reason. (Adam's Rib)

 

[LeviR]

God isn't the blind Omniscient Beast of flatlined existence in emotion and experience that any of the Theosophical ISMs declare Him to be.

That's not the first place that YHWH didn't know a thing.

Jeremiah 19:5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not nor spoke it, neither came it into My mind.

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.”

God can CHOOSE to not know a thing. God has always been God. Jesus is the very Marriage of God to His Creation. That's scripture. Ephesians calls us Bone of HIS Bone for a Reason. (Adam's Rib)

I asked my wife if she forgives me. She said yes. The next day she forgot she forgave me and reminded me again of what she was supposed to forgive me for.

 

[Mustard Seed]

I asked my wife if she forgives me. She said yes. The next day she forgot she forgave me and reminded me again of what she was supposed to forgive me for.

Scripture, please

I won’t lie that I sometimes refer to my wife as “a higher power”… but I know they aren’t the almighty. :D

 

[LeviR]

Scripture, please

I think the idea of forgiveness is to not remember over and over again what it is you are supposed to have been forgiven for.

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.”

 

[Mustard Seed]

I think the idea of forgiveness is to not remember over and over again what it is you are supposed to have been forgiven for.

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.”

That's our part of it for sure. He, God, said that His part is that He chooses to not remember. Dollars to donuts He's better about doing His part than we are about doing ours. :D

 

[Hopeful 2]

The Word which is the breath of His mouth. Not actually wind or air but His Spirit.

Scripture, please.
Where did you get the idea that the Word, (who was with God and was God John 1:1), is the breath of God's mouth ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

So it’s kind of a:
1. the Word is in the beginning with God
2. the Word who is God ceases to exist at Jesus’ conception
3. Jesus who is God starts to exist at his conception
4. At some point of time Jesus who is God ceases to exist
5. the Word who is God again starts to exist

something like this?

Pretty close.
I like your format so will also use it...
1. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and was God." (John 1:1)
2. "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of
the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)
3. "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins." (Matt 1:21)
4. "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of
the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)
I think "changed identity" would be a better description of the transition.
5. "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (1 Cor 15:28)
Jesus will eventually be made one again, with God.

The last time the Word is mentioned in the bible is this, from Rev 19:11-13..."And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
It is after this, I suppose, that my number 5 above will occur.

I’m by no means supporting this, just trying to clarify your beliefs.

I understand.
It's always good to search for clarification.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You believe Jesus was created in the womb of Mary? Body and Soul?

Yes, just like you and I were, in our moms.
Do you suggest something else ?

 

[LeviR]

Scripture, please.
Where did you get the idea that the Word, (who was with God and was God John 1:1), is the breath of God's mouth ?

All synonymous with the Spirit of YHWH.
Breath
Word
Speak
Truth
Sword

 

[Randy]

Yes, just like you and I were, in our moms.
Do you suggest something else ?

The body yes. My mother's womb was my beginning. Mary's womb was not Jesus's beginning.
I'm believe Jesus saw Abraham. He testified to what He saw and heard in the Fathers presence in heaven from His mind.
I don't separate Him from the Son who was who has no ending. He came down from heaven. He ascended to where He was before. He is the only such eyewitness of God and therefore it should be accepted of Abraham as well.
If it's easier for you then believe He was also fully God as well as fully human.

 

[Dmytro]

The body yes. My mother's womb was my beginning. Mary's womb was not Jesus's beginning.
I'm believe Jesus saw Abraham. He testified to what He saw and heard in the Fathers presence in heaven from His mind.
I don't separate Him from the Son who was who has no ending. He came down from heaven. He ascended to where He was before. He is the only such eyewitness of God and therefore it should be accepted of Abraham as well.
If it's easier for you then believe He was also fully God as well as fully human.

I fully agree with you. You seem to be a Trinitarian, right? Strange how there is such a broad variety of opinions about Jesus' existence among you, from he didn't exist before his birth to such like your's.

 

[Runningman]

The body yes. My mother's womb was my beginning. Mary's womb was not Jesus's beginning.
I'm believe Jesus saw Abraham. He testified to what He saw and heard in the Fathers presence in heaven from His mind.
I don't separate Him from the Son who was who has no ending. He came down from heaven. He ascended to where He was before. He is the only such eyewitness of God and therefore it should be accepted of Abraham as well.
If it's easier for you then believe He was also fully God as well as fully human.

I don't believe Jesus viewed himself life that. The spiritual Son of God who "this day" God became the Father thereof is also the human being known as the Son of Man. Jesus the human being came from heaven.

John 3
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Matt 13
13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Free]

I don't believe Jesus viewed himself life that. The spiritual Son of God who "this day" God became the Father thereof is also the human being known as the Son of Man. Jesus the human being came from heaven.

John 3
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Except human beings don’t come from heaven and Jesus says he came from heaven. That is what John had just written in 1:14 and writes again in 3:31:

Jhn 3:31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. (ESV)

Jesus repeats several times that he is from above, the clear meaning of which is that he literally preexisted with the Father. That’s why John said what he did in John 1:1-18, 12:39-42, why Paul said what he did in 1 Cor 8:6, Col 1:16-17, and Phil 2:5-8, and why the writer of Hebrew said what he did in 1:2-3, 10-12.