"Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. (Matt. 24:44 NKJ)

[Oseas]

It seems "the place He went to prepareis His Temple...which is His church.
He said,

if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you Jn.16:7 KJV

He left to return in Spirit and prepare us.

But I never said that Oseas. I said, "That's why the Messiah isn't returning in Person again to teach Bible study."

The Messiah isn't returning in Person to teach unsaved sinners to believe in Him.

The Messiah is returning in Person to judge all mankind both living and dead,

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them Heb.4:2 KJV

The Israelites heard the gospel in figures.

Gen. 3:1 is where satan lied about God. The devils' ministers lie anout Jesus,

Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner. Jn.9:24 KJV

The ruling authority speaking in place of God said Jesus was a sinner.

Theologians have taught me our Father regarded His Son as a sinner. That's a lie.

Opinions is good for nothing. What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, didn't you still understand? Your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective. The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of GOD, neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.

Here my concern is about the readers so that they be not deceived, the content posted in your posts above is good for nothing, so I say unto you my soul refuses to touch words sounded as devilish sound, as equally did sound in Genesis 3:1, as an abhorrent / repulsive food, who eats them die.

What does the prophecy say? This know also, that in the last days (i.e. in this current and apocalyptic time) perilous times shall come, the Spirit speaks expressly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith(apostates), giving heed to seducing spirits(spirits of demons), and doctrines of demons speaking lies(working terribly in traps),as is written in Genesis 3:1; 1Timothy 4:1-2: 2Corinthians 11:13-15; Revelation 16:14-15.

 

[Oseas]

I know. Look what Isaiah said about Jesus,

In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Isa.6:1 KJV

A Person whose flesh was like the veil that seperated sinners from the Presence of God.. See Heb.10:20

As hapenned in Genesis 3:1 you still stealthy uses the Word of GOD, but will be cast down into bottomless pit from now on.

 

[Oseas]

He came as faithful witness. He left before a 2nd faithful witness appeared on earth, because the law says judgement cannot take place unless 2 (or 3 ) witnesses testify.

You are here of the same manner in Genesis 3:1 like the man of sin, sosn of perdition, here transfigured in angel of light (the light is the Word of GOD you uses to deceive with your traps), but now will be cast down into the bottomless pit.

 

[Oseas]

One of the passages John cited shows Jesus as the suffering servant, but in the other passage he's saying Jesus is YHVH.
John is clearly saying when the Messiah ascended to Heaven, Isaiah saw Him as God,

And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. Isa.6:3-4 KJV

And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled. Rev.15:8 KJV

I know the Holy Spirit is a Person. That's why it says the flesh of Christ is the veil separating God from view.

He's showing how Jesus overcame all these things that plague mankind,

exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. Act.14:22 KJV

In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. Jn.16:33 KJV

Sinners are prepared before Jesus returns in Person because after that

.....shall no man see me, and live. Exo.33:20 KJV

What I do, that will I do, that I may cut away occasion of them which desire occasion that they be found like unto us, BUT IS NOT.

As is revealed in 2Corinthians 11:13-15

13 For such false apostles are deceitful workers, and transform themselves into the Apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel: for Satan himself is transformed into an Angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing, though his ministers (MINISTERS OF THE DEVIL) transform themselves, as though they were the ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.

Revelation 12:7 - And there was a battle in heaven(in heaven?Ephesians 1:3-8), Michael and his messengers, fought against the dragon, and the dragon fought and his messengers.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, didn't you still understand?

I understand it's how Jesus conquered all and said if His disciples follow Him they also have the same power over all enemies.

Sinners are being told when Jesus comes in Person, they have another 1000 years to repent. They won't be ready.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Almost forgot, I'm not responding again.

 

[Alfred Persson]

You are here of the same manner in Genesis 3:1 like the man of sin, sosn of perdition, here transfigured in angel of light (the light is the Word of GOD you uses to deceive with your traps), but now will be cast down into the bottomless pit.

I am curious, given our goal to imitate and follow Christ. How do you interpret Isa. 42:3, the bolded words?:

1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice, Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench; He will bring forth justice for truth. (Isa. 42:1-3 NKJ)

I agree with Keil & Delitzsch's interpretation:

Isa. 42:3. With this unassuming appearance there is associated a tender pastoral care. V. 3. “A bruised reed He does not break, and a glimmering wick He does not put out: according to truth He brings out right.” “Bruised:” râtsūts signifies here, as in Isa. 36:6, what is cracked, and therefore half-broken already. Glimmering: kēheh (a form indicative of defects, like עִוֵּר), that which is burning feebly, and very nearly extinguished. Tertullian understands by the “bruised reed” (arundinem contusam) the faith of Israel, and by the “glimmering wick” (linum ardens) the momentary zeal of the Gentiles. But the words hardly admit of this distinction; the reference is rather a general one, to those whose inner and outer life is only hanging by a slender thread. In the statement that in such a case as this He does not completely break or extinguish, there is more implied than is really expressed. Not only will He not destroy the life that is dying out, but He will actually save it; His course is not to destroy, but to save. Keil, C. F., & Delitzsch, F. (1996). Commentary on the Old Testament (Vol. 7, p. 415). Hendrickson.

 

[Oseas]

I am curious, given our goal to imitate and follow Christ. How do you interpret Isa. 42:3, the bolded words?:

1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice, Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench; He will bring forth justice for truth. (Isa. 42:1-3 NKJ)

I agree with Keil & Delitzsch's interpretation:

Isa. 42:3. With this unassuming appearance there is associated a tender pastoral care. V. 3. “A bruised reed He does not break, and a glimmering wick He does not put out: according to truth He brings out right.” “Bruised:” râtsūts signifies here, as in Isa. 36:6, what is cracked, and therefore half-broken already. Glimmering: kēheh (a form indicative of defects, like עִוֵּר), that which is burning feebly, and very nearly extinguished. Tertullian understands by the “bruised reed” (arundinem contusam) the faith of Israel, and by the “glimmering wick” (linum ardens) the momentary zeal of the Gentiles. But the words hardly admit of this distinction; the reference is rather a general one, to those whose inner and outer life is only hanging by a slender thread. In the statement that in such a case as this He does not completely break or extinguish, there is more implied than is really expressed. Not only will He not destroy the life that is dying out, but He will actually save it; His course is not to destroy, but to save. Keil, C. F., & Delitzsch, F. (1996). Commentary on the Old Testament (Vol. 7, p. 415). Hendrickson.

Greetings Alfred Persson

Thank you for you interesting reply

As you said, you agree(and work) with Keil & Delitzsch's interpretation, but I have mine own interpretation.

If we analize deeply the mysteries which GOD has hidden in the verse 3 you have posted, and in all Isaiah 42, we may discover by His Spirit deep things of GOD.

As we can see, GOD first introduces His elected servant, upon whom He put His Spirit, and He reveals: he shall bring forth justice (Judgment) to the Gentiles.
The question is: Who is him? Everyone may say: He is JESUS. But, will he really be JESUS as the elected servant? Would it be true?

GOD revealed in the verse 2 that His elected servant "shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street", but JESUS, on the contrary, did everything that is written in verse 2. So, the elected servant of GOD refers not to JESUS, then who is the elected servant?

In fact, as we know, GOD committed all Judgment unto the Son-John 5:22, but the own JESUS said: I came not to Judge the world, but to save the world-John 12:47.
JESUS is the Word made flesh, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, the above elected servant is not the Word made flesh-as JESUS-, then who is he? In the verse 19 GOD revealed, saying: 19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is PERFECT, and blind as the Lord's servant?

The birth of the elected servant is the same of yours, it's similar to the birth of you. Isaiaah 8:3- And I went unto the prophetess(by allegory the Church); and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the Lord to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz. And Isaiah 7:14-16 reveals:
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive(by allegory the Church), and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he MAY KNOW TO REFUSE THE EVIL(Note: This is not the case of JESUS, absolutely no), and choose the good.
16 For before the child shall know TO REFUSE THE EVIL, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.(both kingdoms: Judah and Israel, as we see today).

JESUS also spoke of the elect servant of GOD in His parable of prodigal son, saying about him as His younger LAWFUL /LEGITIMATE brother. The elected servant is not a son of GOD by adoption, as in multitudes there are-John 1:11-in fact, the elect servant-Isaiah 42:2- , he is the LAWFUL/LEGITIMATE younger brother of JESUS, as the own GOD Father and JESUS said-Luke 15:19-21 combined with Isaiah 42:19 and Isaiah 7:14-16. JESUS is before the world was-John 17:5, but his legitimate younger brother is the ancient of days-Daniel 7:22 and 26-27.

1 Corinthians 2:9-10
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which GOD hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But GOD hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of GOD.

1John 5:7
There are three that bear record-testifies- in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3) , the Father(GOD the Father), the Word(the Word made flesh-JESUS), and the Holy Spirit(who is not a ghost as is written in English language): and these three are One.

GOD BLESS

Here's who the Ancient of days is

It is very hard to speak of GOD's mysteries - the mysteries of the Person of the Word - our GOD. 1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days (last two days or last two millenniums) spoken unto us by His Son...

purebibleforum.com

 

[Alfred Persson]

Greetings Alfred Persson

Thank you for you interesting reply

As you said, you agree(and work) with Keil & Delitzsch's interpretation, but I have mine own interpretation.

If we analize deeply the mysteries which GOD has hidden in the verse 3 you have posted, and in all Isaiah 42, we may discover by His Spirit deep things of GOD.

As we can see, GOD first introduces His elected servant, upon whom He put His Spirit, and He reveals: he shall bring forth justice (Judgment) to the Gentiles.
The question is: Who is him? Everyone may say: He is JESUS. But, will he really be JESUS as the elected servant? Would it be true?

GOD revealed in the verse 2 that His elected servant "shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street", but JESUS, on the contrary, did everything that is written in verse 2. So, the elected servant of GOD refers not to JESUS, then who is the elected servant?

In fact, as we know, GOD committed all Judgment unto the Son-John 5:22, but the own JESUS said: I came not to Judge the world, but to save the world-John 12:47.
JESUS is the Word made flesh, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, the above elected servant is not the Word made flesh-as JESUS-, then who is he? In the verse 19 GOD revealed, saying: 19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is PERFECT, and blind as the Lord's servant?

The birth of the elected servant is the same of yours, it's similar to the birth of you. Isaiaah 8:3- And I went unto the prophetess(by allegory the Church); and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the Lord to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz. And Isaiah 7:14-16 reveals:
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive(by allegory the Church), and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he MAY KNOW TO REFUSE THE EVIL(Note: This is not the case of JESUS, absolutely no), and choose the good.
16 For before the child shall know TO REFUSE THE EVIL, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.(both kingdoms: Judah and Israel, as we see today).

JESUS also spoke of the elect servant of GOD in His parable of prodigal son, saying about him as His younger LAWFUL /LEGITIMATE brother. The elected servant is not a son of GOD by adoption, as in multitudes there are-John 1:11-in fact, the elect servant-Isaiah 42:2- , he is the LAWFUL/LEGITIMATE younger brother of JESUS, as the own GOD Father and JESUS said-Luke 15:19-21 combined with Isaiah 42:19 and Isaiah 7:14-16. JESUS is before the world was-John 17:5, but his legitimate younger brother is the ancient of days-Daniel 7:22 and 26-27.

1 Corinthians 2:9-10
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which GOD hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But GOD hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of GOD.

1John 5:7
There are three that bear record-testifies- in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3) , the Father(GOD the Father), the Word(the Word made flesh-JESUS), and the Holy Spirit(who is not a ghost as is written in English language): and these three are One.

GOD BLESS

Here's who the Ancient of days is

It is very hard to speak of GOD's mysteries - the mysteries of the Person of the Word - our GOD. 1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days (last two days or last two millenniums) spoken unto us by His Son...

purebibleforum.com

 

[Alfred Persson]

Greetings Alfred Persson

Thank you for you interesting reply

As you said, you agree(and work) with Keil & Delitzsch's interpretation, but I have mine own interpretation.

If we analize deeply the mysteries which GOD has hidden in the verse 3 you have posted, and in all Isaiah 42, we may discover by His Spirit deep things of GOD.

As we can see, GOD first introduces His elected servant, upon whom He put His Spirit, and He reveals: he shall bring forth justice (Judgment) to the Gentiles.
The question is: Who is him? Everyone may say: He is JESUS. But, will he really be JESUS as the elected servant? Would it be true?

GOD revealed in the verse 2 that His elected servant "shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street", but JESUS, on the contrary, did everything that is written in verse 2. So, the elected servant of GOD refers not to JESUS, then who is the elected servant?

In fact, as we know, GOD committed all Judgment unto the Son-John 5:22, but the own JESUS said: I came not to Judge the world, but to save the world-John 12:47.
JESUS is the Word made flesh, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, the above elected servant is not the Word made flesh-as JESUS-, then who is he? In the verse 19 GOD revealed, saying: 19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is PERFECT, and blind as the Lord's servant?

The birth of the elected servant is the same of yours, it's similar to the birth of you. Isaiaah 8:3- And I went unto the prophetess(by allegory the Church); and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the Lord to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz. And Isaiah 7:14-16 reveals:
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive(by allegory the Church), and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he MAY KNOW TO REFUSE THE EVIL(Note: This is not the case of JESUS, absolutely no), and choose the good.
16 For before the child shall know TO REFUSE THE EVIL, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.(both kingdoms: Judah and Israel, as we see today).

JESUS also spoke of the elect servant of GOD in His parable of prodigal son, saying about him as His younger LAWFUL /LEGITIMATE brother. The elected servant is not a son of GOD by adoption, as in multitudes there are-John 1:11-in fact, the elect servant-Isaiah 42:2- , he is the LAWFUL/LEGITIMATE younger brother of JESUS, as the own GOD Father and JESUS said-Luke 15:19-21 combined with Isaiah 42:19 and Isaiah 7:14-16. JESUS is before the world was-John 17:5, but his legitimate younger brother is the ancient of days-Daniel 7:22 and 26-27.

1 Corinthians 2:9-10
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which GOD hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But GOD hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of GOD.

1John 5:7
There are three that bear record-testifies- in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3) , the Father(GOD the Father), the Word(the Word made flesh-JESUS), and the Holy Spirit(who is not a ghost as is written in English language): and these three are One.

GOD BLESS

Here's who the Ancient of days is

It is very hard to speak of GOD's mysteries - the mysteries of the Person of the Word - our GOD. 1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days (last two days or last two millenniums) spoken unto us by His Son...

purebibleforum.com

Sound Hermeneutical principles forbid the allegory ("servant is the Church") override the literal reference to Jesus, who alone brings Justice to the Gentiles, in whom alone they wait for His law. No one is waiting for the Church to make law.

You argue Jesus' conduct doesn't fit verse 2, but actually it does because He did not "cry out" to the Gentiles He is the Messiah:

NKJ Isaiah 42:1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice, Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench; He will bring forth justice for truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, Till He has established justice in the earth; And the coastlands shall wait for His law." (Isa. 42:1-4 NKJ)

Isa. 42:2. The prophet then proceeds to describe how the servant of Jehovah will manifest Himself in the world outside Israel by the promulgation of this right. V. 2. “He will not cry, nor lift up, nor cause to be heard in the street, His voice.” “His voice” is the object of “lift up,” as well as “cause to be heard.” With our existing division of the verse, it must at least be supplied in thought. Although he is certain of His divine call, and brings to the nations the highest and best, His manner of appearing is nevertheless quiet, gentle, and humble; the very opposite of those lying teachers, who endeavoured to exalt themselves by noisy demonstrations. He does not seek His own, and therefore denies Himself; He brings what commends itself, and therefore requires no forced trumpeting.-Keil, C. F., & Delitzsch, F. (1996). Commentary on the Old Testament (Vol. 7, p. 415). Hendrickson.

Same with Isaiah 8:3, the allegory contradicts the literal application God makes.

NKJ Isaiah 8:1 Moreover the LORD said to me, "Take a large scroll, and write on it with a man's pen concerning Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz.
2 "And I will take for Myself faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah."
3 Then I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son. Then the LORD said to me, "Call his name Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz;
4 "for before the child shall have knowledge to cry`My father' and`My mother,' the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria will be taken away before the king of Assyria." (Isa. 8:1-4 NKJ)

Before the child spoke, Assyria would carry off the riches of Damascus and spoil of Samaria. That happened around BC 743:

5 Now the king of Assyria went throughout all the land, and went up to Samaria and besieged it for three years.
6 In the ninth year of Hoshea, the king of Assyria took Samaria and carried Israel away to Assyria, and placed them in Halah and by the Habor, the River of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes. (2 Ki. 17:5-6 NKJ)

In verse 5 the prophecy telescopes into the future, to Immanuel the Christ:

5 The LORD also spoke to me again, saying:
6 "Inasmuch as these people refused The waters of Shiloah that flow softly, And rejoice in Rezin and in Remaliah's son;
7 Now therefore, behold, the Lord brings up over them The waters of the River, strong and mighty-- The king of Assyria and all his glory; He will go up over all his channels And go over all his banks.
8 He will pass through Judah, He will overflow and pass over, He will reach up to the neck; And the stretching out of his wings Will fill the breadth of Your land, O Immanuel.
9 "Be shattered, O you peoples, and be broken in pieces! Give ear, all you from far countries. Gird yourselves, but be broken in pieces; Gird yourselves, but be broken in pieces.
10 Take counsel together, but it will come to nothing; Speak the word, but it will not stand, For God is with us."
11 For the LORD spoke thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying:
12 "Do not say,`A conspiracy,' Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy, Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.
13 The LORD of hosts, Him you shall hallow; Let Him be your fear, And let Him be your dread.
14 He will be as a sanctuary, But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense To both the houses of Israel, As a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble; They shall fall and be broken, Be snared and taken." (Isa. 8:5-15 NKJ)

The prophecy unites two different "devastations" of Israel, "telescoping" over a great valley of time so only the two "mountain tops" (=desolations) are seen. Prophecy often does that. The future rejection of Christ (paralleling the rejection of Jehovah) also results in exile, being carried off captive into foreign lands:

24 "And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Lk. 21:24 NKJ)

As for the other verses you cite, they clearly have no reference to the child of the prophetess or the desolation of Israel by Assyria.

Thanks for your reply, it was interesting.

 

[Oseas]

Sound Hermeneutical principles forbid the allegory ("servant is the Church") override the literal reference to Jesus,

You started your reply stealthy twisting my words, what is a devilish act. I didn't say what you said that I said, i.e.("servant is the Church"), I did not say that, what I said is the virgin that shall conceive-Isaiah 7:14- is, by allegory, the Church of the Lord JESUS. Revelation 12:1.

No, I will NEVER override the LITERAL reference to JESUS, but never. What you are saying is similar to what occurred in Genesis 3:1.

Again: Here's LITERALLY what I posted above: "
And Isaiah 7:14-16 reveals:
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a VIRGIN shall conceive(by allegory the Church), and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he MAY KNOW TO REFUSE THE EVIL(Note: This is not the case of JESUS, absolutely no), and choose the good.
16 For before the child shall know TO REFUSE THE EVIL, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.(both kingdoms: Judah and Israel, as we see today).
JESUS also spoke of the elect servant of GOD in His parable of prodigal son, saying about him as His younger LAWFUL /LEGITIMATE brother. The elected servant is not a son of GOD by adoption, as in multitudes there are-John 1:11-in fact, the elect servant-Isaiah 42:2- , he is the LAWFUL/LEGITIMATE younger brother of JESUS, as the own GOD Father and JESUS said-Luke 15:19-21 combined with Isaiah 42:19 and Isaiah 7:14-16. JESUS is before the world was-John 17:5, but his legitimate younger brother is the ancient of days-Daniel 7:22 and 26-27.

who alone brings Justice to the Gentiles, in whom alone they wait for His law.

Your opinion is good for nothing, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?
What does the Word of GOD say?
As many as have sinned WITHOUT Law(the Gentiles) shall also PERISH WITHOUT Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law (the Jews) shall be JUDGED by the Law.

No one is waiting for the Church to make law.

I didn't say what you are saying, it seems something tormented you suggesting shooting evil arrows.

You argue Jesus' conduct doesn't fit verse 2, but actually it does because He did not "cry out" to the Gentiles He is the Messiah:

Of course JESUS did not "cry out"to the Gentiles, He could NEVER do that, understand? as He Himself said: Matthew 15:24- I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

NKJ Isaiah 42:1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice, Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench; He will bring forth justice for truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, Till He has established justice in the earth; And the coastlands shall wait for His law." (Isa. 42:1-4 NKJ)

Isa. 42:2. The prophet then proceeds to describe how the servant of Jehovah will manifest Himself in the world outside Israel by the promulgation of this right. V. 2. “He will not cry, nor lift up, nor cause to be heard in the street, His voice.” “His voice” is the object of “lift up,” as well as “cause to be heard.” With our existing division of the verse, it must at least be supplied in thought. Although he is certain of His divine call, and brings to the nations the highest and best, His manner of appearing is nevertheless quiet, gentle, and humble; the very opposite of those lying teachers, who endeavoured to exalt themselves by noisy demonstrations. He does not seek His own, and therefore denies Himself; He brings what commends itself, and therefore requires no forced trumpeting.-Keil, C. F., & Delitzsch, F. (1996). Commentary on the Old Testament (Vol. 7, p. 415). Hendrickson.

You are possessed by the spirits of Carl Friedrich Keil and Franz Delitzsch. For me what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing. The Word of GOD explains it itself what are revealed by my GOD Father by His Word. JESUS said: I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 3:31- He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: He that cometh from above is above all: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

 

[Alfred Persson]

You started your reply stealthy twisting my words, what is a devilish act. I didn't say what you said that I said, i.e.("servant is the Church"), I did not say that, what I said is the virgin that shall conceive-Isaiah 7:14- is, by allegory, the Church of the Lord JESUS. Revelation 12:1.

No, I will NEVER override the LITERAL reference to JESUS, but never. What you are saying is similar to what occurred in Genesis 3:1.

Again: Here's LITERALLY what I posted above: "
And Isaiah 7:14-16 reveals:
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a VIRGIN shall conceive(by allegory the Church), and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Perhaps English is not your first language. It does appear you have repeated "the allegory ("servant is the Church")"

Repeating the allegory "a "virgin...is, (by allegory, the church)" is not twisting your words.

Its quoting you.

Have a nice day.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Really do not see any relevance in this thread as percents are only speculations and never accurate as who are and how many have been asked this question and who is doing the asking.

The point of Christ return has already been written in the scriptures if one would read them for what they say. The Disciples asked Jesus three questions in Matthew 24:3 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? In vs. 4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. From vs 4-51 Jesus begins to answer theses three questions and told them of all that must come first before His return. Two main verses are vs. 29-31 and 36-39. For now we just need to make sure we are prepared for that glorious day as we need to be about our Fathers business.

Beware of the "spiritualization" of his return, though. A common gnostic heresy that teaches it as the "awakening of your inner consciousness", no longer being held hostage by guilt and shame. They've turn it completely self-centered, not the physical and bodily return of Christ on Mount Olive, but the return of my pure, innocent, doe-eyed self uncorrupted by the world, a new heart not desensitized by cynicism, hatred and despair. Some among those who say they do believe the second coming, especially those who also believe that "Jesus lives in my heart" may have been duped by this New Age false doctrine. What is written in the bible is one thing, what you think and what you're taught is written in the bible is quite another.

 

[eddif]

Beware of the "spiritualization" of his return, though. A common gnostic heresy that teaches it as the "awakening of your inner consciousness", no longer being held hostage by guilt and shame. They've turn it completely self-centered, not the physical and bodily return of Christ on Mount Olive, but the return of my pure, innocent, doe-eyed self uncorrupted by the world, a new heart not desensitized by cynicism, hatred and despair. Some among those who say they do believe the second coming, especially those who also believe that "Jesus lives in my heart" may have been duped by this New Age false doctrine. What is written in the bible is one thing, what you think and what you're taught is written in the bible is quite another.

So.
Three groups?
The Sadducees who deny certain things are true.
And
The Pharisees who believe in the Resurrection and Spirits.
And
Christians that are divided almost on the same lines.

There is the physical? And there is the spiritual.

The seed is the Word of God
The ground is men’s hearts.

The physical creation speaks of the unseen spiritual.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The Pharisees who believe in the Resurrection and Spirits.

They don't understand the first coming and the second coming because Is. 53 was censored, they only expected the second coming, so did all Jesus's disciples.

 

[eddif]

So.
Three groups?
The Sadducees who deny certain things are true.
And
The Pharisees who believe in the Resurrection and Spirits.
And
Christians that are divided almost on the same lines.

There is the physical? And there is the spiritual.

The seed is the Word of God
The ground is men’s hearts.

The physical creation speaks of the unseen spiritual.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Hopeful 2]

They don't understand the first coming and the second coming because Is. 53 was censored, they only expected the second coming, so did all Jesus's disciples.

What do you mean by 'censored' ?

 

[Alfred Persson]

What do you mean by 'censored' ?

I was wondering what he meant also, so I asked ChatGPT and got this answer:

The claim that Jewish Rabbis "censor" or discourage the reading of Isaiah 53 because of its reference to Jesus Christ is a point of contention and misunderstanding between different religious perspectives, particularly between some Christian and Jewish interpretations. Here's a detailed look into the issue:

Isaiah 53 in Jewish and Christian Contexts​

1. Isaiah 53 Overview:
   • Isaiah 53 is part of a section in the Book of Isaiah often referred to as the "Suffering Servant" passages (Isaiah 52:13-53:12). It describes a figure who suffers on behalf of others, is despised and rejected, yet ultimately vindicated by God.
2. Christian Interpretation:
   • Many Christians see Isaiah 53 as a prophecy foretelling the life, suffering, and death of Jesus Christ. They believe that the "Suffering Servant" described in this chapter is a clear messianic prophecy that is fulfilled in Jesus.
3. Jewish Interpretation:
   • In traditional Jewish interpretation, Isaiah 53 is often understood differently. Many Jewish scholars and Rabbis interpret the "Suffering Servant" as a metaphor for the nation of Israel itself, which has suffered throughout history but remains faithful to God and is ultimately vindicated. This interpretation sees the suffering servant as representing the collective experiences and struggles of the Jewish people.

Allegations of Censorship or Discouragement​

1. Torah and Haftarah Readings:
   • The weekly Torah readings (parashot) and accompanying Haftarah readings (selections from the Prophets) in synagogue services are structured in a way that not every chapter from the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) is read publicly throughout the year. Some claim that Isaiah 53 is "skipped" or not emphasized, but this is a misunderstanding of how the readings are structured.
2. Reasons for Perceived Avoidance:
   • The perception that Isaiah 53 is avoided might stem from its absence in the standard Haftarah readings, not due to intentional censorship but due to the established liturgical cycle.
   • Rabbis and Jewish educators may focus on interpretations that align with Jewish theological perspectives, emphasizing communal rather than individual messianic roles, which can be misconstrued as avoidance.
3. Educational Focus:
   • In Jewish education, the focus is on the entire context of the Hebrew Scriptures and traditional Jewish interpretations. Isaiah 53 is studied and discussed, but through the lens of Jewish tradition rather than Christian messianic claims.

Misunderstandings and Interfaith Dialogue​

• Interfaith Misunderstandings:
  • Claims of censorship often arise from a lack of understanding of Jewish interpretive traditions and liturgical practices. Both religious communities have deeply rooted traditions and interpretations that shape their reading of the texts.
• Encouraging Dialogue:
  • Constructive interfaith dialogue can help bridge gaps in understanding. Recognizing the different contexts and interpretations allows for more respectful and informed discussions between Christians and Jews.

In summary, the claim that Jewish Rabbis censor or discourage reading Isaiah 53 is based on differing interpretations and religious traditions rather than an active attempt to suppress certain readings. Understanding these nuances can help foster better interfaith understanding and respect.

End Quote

I don't doubt devout readers of this text immediately think of Jesus, He so perfectly fulfilled it. They may avoid reading it, for that reason. Calling it "censorship" implies an official act. If there is an "edict" somewhere, religious or secular that the passage shouldn't be read, those who allege they "censor" scripture should produce the text of it, and provide sufficient references so we can verify its accuracy and authority of the text.

In other words, ChatGPT explained the "misunderstanding" quite well. I accept its answer unless someone can prove differently.

Its not the first time I heard the charge Rabbis censor the text, I heard it somewhere before but can't remember who said it, where or when. At the time I naively believed people some of whom who were not worthy of my trust.

Today its so easy to verify statements with ChatGPT, I took the opportunity to ask whether the charge was true. It clearly is not.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

What do you mean by 'censored' ?

They either skip Is. 53 or tell you the nation of Israel is that suffering servant, not the real messiah who

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I was wondering what he meant also, so I asked ChatGPT and got this answer:

The claim that Jewish Rabbis "censor" or discourage the reading of Isaiah 53 because of its reference to Jesus Christ is a point of contention and misunderstanding between different religious perspectives, particularly between some Christian and Jewish interpretations. Here's a detailed look into the issue:

Isaiah 53 in Jewish and Christian Contexts​

1. Isaiah 53 Overview:
   • Isaiah 53 is part of a section in the Book of Isaiah often referred to as the "Suffering Servant" passages (Isaiah 52:13-53:12). It describes a figure who suffers on behalf of others, is despised and rejected, yet ultimately vindicated by God.
2. Christian Interpretation:
   • Many Christians see Isaiah 53 as a prophecy foretelling the life, suffering, and death of Jesus Christ. They believe that the "Suffering Servant" described in this chapter is a clear messianic prophecy that is fulfilled in Jesus.
3. Jewish Interpretation:
   • In traditional Jewish interpretation, Isaiah 53 is often understood differently. Many Jewish scholars and Rabbis interpret the "Suffering Servant" as a metaphor for the nation of Israel itself, which has suffered throughout history but remains faithful to God and is ultimately vindicated. This interpretation sees the suffering servant as representing the collective experiences and struggles of the Jewish people.

Allegations of Censorship or Discouragement​

1. Torah and Haftarah Readings:
   • The weekly Torah readings (parashot) and accompanying Haftarah readings (selections from the Prophets) in synagogue services are structured in a way that not every chapter from the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) is read publicly throughout the year. Some claim that Isaiah 53 is "skipped" or not emphasized, but this is a misunderstanding of how the readings are structured.
2. Reasons for Perceived Avoidance:
   • The perception that Isaiah 53 is avoided might stem from its absence in the standard Haftarah readings, not due to intentional censorship but due to the established liturgical cycle.
   • Rabbis and Jewish educators may focus on interpretations that align with Jewish theological perspectives, emphasizing communal rather than individual messianic roles, which can be misconstrued as avoidance.
3. Educational Focus:
   • In Jewish education, the focus is on the entire context of the Hebrew Scriptures and traditional Jewish interpretations. Isaiah 53 is studied and discussed, but through the lens of Jewish tradition rather than Christian messianic claims.

Misunderstandings and Interfaith Dialogue​

• Interfaith Misunderstandings:
  • Claims of censorship often arise from a lack of understanding of Jewish interpretive traditions and liturgical practices. Both religious communities have deeply rooted traditions and interpretations that shape their reading of the texts.
• Encouraging Dialogue:
  • Constructive interfaith dialogue can help bridge gaps in understanding. Recognizing the different contexts and interpretations allows for more respectful and informed discussions between Christians and Jews.

In summary, the claim that Jewish Rabbis censor or discourage reading Isaiah 53 is based on differing interpretations and religious traditions rather than an active attempt to suppress certain readings. Understanding these nuances can help foster better interfaith understanding and respect.

End Quote

I don't doubt devout readers of this text immediately think of Jesus, He so perfectly fulfilled it. They may avoid reading it, for that reason. Calling it "censorship" implies an official act. If there is an "edict" somewhere, religious or secular that the passage shouldn't be read, those who allege they "censor" scripture should produce the text of it, and provide sufficient references so we can verify its accuracy and authority of the text.

In other words, ChatGPT explained the "misunderstanding" quite well. I accept its answer unless someone can prove differently.

Its not the first time I heard the charge Rabbis censor the text, I heard it somewhere before but can't remember who said it, where or when. At the time I naively believed people some of whom who were not worthy of my trust.

Today it’s so easy to verify statements with ChatGPT, I took the opportunity to ask whether the charge was true. It clearly is not.

Dude, just read Acts 4, see the authority’s response to the name of Jesus for yourself. 4:17 is what I meant by “censored”.

“So that it spreads no further among the people, let us severely threaten them, that from now on they speak to no man in his name.” (Acts. 4:17)