[_ Old Earth _] This is SO Sick!! Disgusting!

[BobRyan]

If you fail to appreciate the Genesis 1 fact that God created mankind "in his own image" then you will naturally turn from Bible values and embrace atheist darwinist dogma -- eventually to the point of hittng the new low of sick ideas being promoted in the U.K.

Without an anchor - adrift at sea --- eventually the Lev 18 boundary get's crossed and as the text shows -- the wipeout follows.

The empty point that this crime is committed with "just science" is like saying "nuclear weapons -- hey that's just science why not use them all the time?". That "it's just science" argument never worked to start with.

ahhh "the bible" -- what a concept!

Bob

The argument is not that it's "just science" (a strawman from Bob? Never...). The argument is that stem cell research does basically zero harm

That's a pretty wild claim given THE WAY they propose to" get those cells" in the first place.

The point remains.

And oh yes - BTW the Nukes dropped on Japan were in an effort to "Save lives and end the war quickly".

The "good for mankind" argument is made in both cases.

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I count spelling "whether" as "weather" a misspelling.

Good "counting" snidey!

I am always so pleased when atheists agnostics and those that follow after them are so well versed in counting. ;-)

It is reassuring that this is still working for them even as they post on these threads.

Now -- "back to the topic"

Bob

 

[Orion]

Creating a condition of "perfection", when the foreknowledge is there that no one WILL be able to be "perfect", and punishing "imperfection" with death, is not a moral stance and definitely not something one would expect from a being who supposedly "loves those imperfect lifeforms".

As per the very first human centered story in the Bible, . . . .the wages of their "sin" (even though they hadn't eaten the fruit of the 'knowledge of good and evil' to where they could make a choice based upon them BEING disobedient, in the first place) was not death. They would have continued living forever had they been given access to the "tree of life". . . . . . . . . . as per a literal reading of the story, that is.

 

[KenEOTE]

Can some one list what diseases have been cured or what disabilities have been helped by embryonic stem cells?

I know that they have made leaps and bounds doing research with Adult Stem Cells. Have read a few medical journals on it. Have yet to hear what the research on the embryonic stem cells have unfolded.

 

[Biblereader]

If evolution is true, there is no such thing as "right" or "wrong"

Evolution says nothing on moral claims. It says nothing about what is right or what is wrong - it simply explains the diversity of life that we experience on earth.

We establish moral claims independently of evolution.

We follow the morals of the Bible, if we want to come to the right conclusion.
And, evolution is not true.

 

[jmm9683]

If evolution is true, there is no such thing as "right" or "wrong"

Evolution says nothing on moral claims. It says nothing about what is right or what is wrong - it simply explains the diversity of life that we experience on earth.

We establish moral claims independently of evolution.

We follow the morals of the Bible, if we want to come to the right conclusion.
And, evolution is not true.

I know you must have come up with that conclusion that throws all of modern science out the window with rigorous testing and peer review. Any other earth-shattering scientific revelations professor?

 

[Deep Thought]

Biblereader.

What is the "right conclusion" if we follow the morals in the Bible?

Which morals do you choose to follow in the Bible?

Which morals do you ignore in the Bible?

 

[freeway]

Biblereader.

What is the "right conclusion" if we follow the morals in the Bible?

Which morals do you choose to follow in the Bible?

Which morals do you ignore in the Bible?

love your neighbor as yourself... 8-)

 

[Deep Thought]

Freeway01, I was specifically addressing Biblereader, but if you'd like to answer all the questions, please feel free to do so.

 

[KenEOTE]

Deep Thought I think Freeway01 was answering all your questions with one simple answer. I guess that was however too deep a thought for you.

 

[lordkalvan]

Can some one list what diseases have been cured or what disabilities have been helped by embryonic stem cells?

I know that they have made leaps and bounds doing research with Adult Stem Cells. Have read a few medical journals on it. Have yet to hear what the research on the embryonic stem cells have unfolded.

Because of the controversies surrounding the use of embryonic stem cells, research is still very much in its infancy. From the National Institute for Health website Stem Cell Information at http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics6.asp:

There are many ways in which human stem cells can be used in basic research and in clinical research. However, there are many technical hurdles between the promise of stem cells and the realization of these uses, which will only be overcome by continued intensive stem cell research.

Studies of human embryonic stem cells may yield information about the complex events that occur during human development. A primary goal of this work is to identify how undifferentiated stem cells become differentiated. Scientists know that turning genes on and off is central to this process. Some of the most serious medical conditions, such as cancer and birth defects, are due to abnormal cell division and differentiation. A better understanding of the genetic and molecular controls of these processes may yield information about how such diseases arise and suggest new strategies for therapy. A significant hurdle to this use and most uses of stem cells is that scientists do not yet fully understand the signals that turn specific genes on and off to influence the differentiation of the stem cell.

Human stem cells could also be used to test new drugs.....

Perhaps the most important potential application of human stem cells is the generation of cells and tissues that could be used for cell-based therapies. Today, donated organs and tissues are often used to replace ailing or destroyed tissue, but the need for transplantable tissues and organs far outweighs the available supply. Stem cells, directed to differentiate into specific cell types, offer the possibility of a renewable source of replacement cells and tissues to treat diseases including Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases, spinal cord injury, stroke, burns, heart disease, diabetes, osteoarthritis, and rheumatoid arthritis.

Insofar as this research (in the UK at least) is intended to use 'surplus' embryos from IVF clinics with the full consent of the donors, embryos that would otherwise be destroyed anyway, in my opinion the ethical question needs to be moved one step further back. The embryos used to provide stem cells would never have developed into individuals anyway; embryonic stem cells are not the same thing as embryos.

 

[KenEOTE]

LK thanks for the info. I look forward to reading the link.

 

[lordkalvan]

LK thanks for the info. I look forward to reading the link.

You're welcome. You may also find the Christopher and Dana Reeve Foundation site interesting at http://www.christopherreeve.org/sit...k.6763/Human_Embryonic_Stem_Cell_Research.htm

 

[Deep Thought]

Deep Thought I think Freeway01 was answering all your questions with one simple answer. I guess that was however too deep a thought for you.

How can that answer all my questions? The Bible contains more than a single moral.

 

[Tomalomi]

Deep Thought I think Freeway01 was answering all your questions with one simple answer. I guess that was however too deep a thought for you.

How can that answer all my questions? The Bible contains more than a single moral.

Precisely why this was over your head and between your legs. I will let you have one more chance at figuring it out before someone else, or myself explain this to you.

 

[Deep Thought]

I'll bite, as it is obviously over my head and between my legs.

Please explain to me in terms a dummy can understand.

 

[KenEOTE]

Please explain to me in terms a dummy can understand.

Deep don't call yourself a dummy. You are wonderfully created, and God has a purpose for you.

 

[Deep Thought]

I'd like God's purpose to fully explain the answer to my question.

 

[KenEOTE]

Perhaps God's purpose is for you to ask him, Seek and ye shall find.

 

[Deep Thought]

Ken, if you aren't interested in participating in the conversation in an adult manner, then why bother in the first place?

Let's summarise. Here's the original question in context

Biblereader.

What is the "right conclusion" if we follow the morals in the Bible?

Which morals do you choose to follow in the Bible?

Which morals do you ignore in the Bible?

love your neighbor as yourself... 8-)

Note that freeway01 did NOT answer "which morals do you ignore in the Bible" and if love your neighbour as yourself is the ONLY moral that freeway01 follows from the Bible, then he (I assume male) must derive his morals elsewhere.