With all due respect, it would not profit me to give you examples, because you already have made up your mind on the subject. Therefore, I haven't the time to place the effort...
Those who don't believe in free-will, why do so many verse's claim it??
- Thread starter Grubal Muruch
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With all due respect, it would not profit me to give you examples, because you already have made up your mind on the subject. Therefore, I haven't the time to place the effort...
If I were to be shown direct scriptural evidence for the doctrine of free will I would certainly change my mind. But, as it stands, free will is a logical impossibility and I am not in the habit of believing nonsense (in the literal sense of the term; no offence is meant) off-hand. I've skimmed over some of the verses cited already in this thread and, whilst many of them confirm the existence of choice, none have demonstrated or alluded to the idea of choice separate from external factors i.e. free will.
smaller
Member
There are many flaws with the freewill promotions of theology.
Among them, the glorification of 'self' wrought works and the thinking that in that God finds reward to such 'self' actions, hence the 'earning' of eternal rewards.
It is also an instrument to condemn others who are not sufficient to make such choices as the freewill choosers. And in this direction I find the most frailty as this is obviously NOT what scripture states about the unbeliever, who is factually blinded in their minds by the 'god of this world,' proving they are not 'alone' in their supposed 'freewill' decision making. 2 Cor. 4:4 is a good example as is Romans 11:8.
enjoy!
s
Among them, the glorification of 'self' wrought works and the thinking that in that God finds reward to such 'self' actions, hence the 'earning' of eternal rewards.
It is also an instrument to condemn others who are not sufficient to make such choices as the freewill choosers. And in this direction I find the most frailty as this is obviously NOT what scripture states about the unbeliever, who is factually blinded in their minds by the 'god of this world,' proving they are not 'alone' in their supposed 'freewill' decision making. 2 Cor. 4:4 is a good example as is Romans 11:8.
enjoy!
s
Have you read the entire thread?
Yes. Unless threads are absurdly long, I try to do so before posting.
smaller
Member
None are born as believers. All are prior blinded in their minds by the god of this world. That is 'why' they are 'unbelievers.'
Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
There is a POWER over the minds of unbelievers.
That is in fact WHO we are saved from and separated from.
Those proclaimed believers who do not see this and instead seek eternal death upon such blinded minded people using the claim of 'freewill' actually remain under that same power NOT HEARING the Words of LIFE CALL to ALL people.
And such also cannot SEE the power of darkness as 'a separate working' that God has placed the unbelievers under BY HIS DIRECT INTENTIONS.
enjoy!
smaller
We "ALL" come into this world as, "unbelievers." When we hear the Gospel, we have an opportunity for salvation by Grace through faith. And that's our "only" hope...
smaller
Member
Sorry, I don't view the Gospel as a business deal with 'opportunity' involved. To me that is a worldly way of viewing the matters.
The 'buy now or you miss your opportunity' gospel is a product of sales commercialism employed by those seeking to increase their business partners.
HERE is the GRANTOR of SIGHT to the SPIRITUALLY BLIND:
13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.
14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Y'all 'freewillers' can claim you UNblinded yourselves. Whoopee on YOU!
But I don't believe that is the case.
There is a blinded person and AN ENEMY WHO BLINDS THEM in their MINDS.
Those who do not KNOW THE DIFFERENCE remain blind to the fact themselves and see nothing regardless of their claims of freeing themselves. They apparently forgot who blinded them prior. I attribute that work to the DEVIL. Such blinded ones didn't even KNOW they were blind and thought it was ONLY THEM-selv-es. That is NOT the case whatsoever.
But hey, if you are in need of an instrument of self glorification for your personal reward justifications and a tool for the damnation of the blinded unbelievers, then freewill is your game all the way.
enjoy!
smaller
smaller
Member
you tried that stunt before when the slant didn't go your way on the discussion GM, and I pointed to the bottom of my post for clarifications.
A stray 'mod' from some 8 years ago or so who has not been around here for quite awhile and who didn't like what I had to say stuck me with that term...if that tells you anything.
A stray 'mod' from some 8 years ago or so who has not been around here for quite awhile and who didn't like what I had to say stuck me with that term...if that tells you anything.
Smaller, I can agree that there are charlatans in the religious realm..as in every area of mankind. However, I would caution you to consider that it is the Holy Spirit who bestows mercy so that one can gain heaven.
And, that mercy will not always be available to any particular individual...meaning that if the Holy Spirit impresses you to come to God, if you choose not to, you may miss your opportunity.
"My spirit shall not always strive with man." Genesis 6:3
"Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your heart." Hebrews 3:15
And we are told to :
NASB (©1995) Jude 1:23,,,
save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh
That sounds pretty urgent to me.
Grubal's definition states...without "control" by an outside source.
That gives man the option of freely choosing.
External influences do not change the fact that we can choose.
Our actions may be affected by external things...the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. But those are merely our response after we choose to either listen to our conscience or ignore it.
The key word being influenced, not controlled, coerced or directed. The serpent in the garden influenced Adam and Eve. He did not hold a gun to their heads and force them to sin.
God created man in His own image. We are not animals controlled by our "nature".
It's man's ability to choose that separates us from the rest of Creation.
I'm sure you have chosen every path you have walked thus far in your life, not everything that has happened to you, but every decision you have made.
People who claim they haven't are really only fooling themselves...perhaps in order to have an excuse for why they aren't in a better place. "I couldn't help it", and "You can't blame me, it wasn't my fault" are nothing more than cop-outs.
