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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Bible Study Thousand Year Reign
- Thread starter t4r4ntul4
- Start date
J
JCitoL
Guest
Perfect example of an oxymoron. Sorry.
the eternity is both periodic(-al) and endless because it is a circle, for the life of God also has a cycle, not that He dies in the end, but He regains/reverts in His primordial form of seed, whereafter He again recurs/turns up in the beginning of the subsequent rotation/circle of the eternity, here is how the eternity is both periodic(-al) and endless
Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Blessings
digging
Member
Here is a scripture that points is a certain length of time for the reigning of Christ.
1 Cor15:24then comes the end, when He hands over http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-37the kingdom to the http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-38God and Father, when He has abolished http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-39all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-40until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-41abolished is death. 27 For http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-42HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-43All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28When http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-44all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-45God may be all in all
1 Cor15:24then comes the end, when He hands over http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-37the kingdom to the http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-38God and Father, when He has abolished http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-39all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-40until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-41abolished is death. 27 For http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-42HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-43All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28When http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-44all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/15.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-45God may be all in all
One of the most disputed chapters in the Bible:
Revelation 20 (NASB95)
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
The thousand year reign when the devil is bound ending with the Armageddon scenario... again?
A thousand year hold on the resurrection of the saints?
Jesus comes to earth to defend Israel from the Armageddon scenario (Zechariah 14:4 / 12:10 etc). Are the saints reunited with their bodies at his coming or not (1 Corinthians 15:51-57 / Thessalonians 4:13-18)?
Or... submitted for your consideration... "THE thousand years" verse 3 of Revelation 20... is not a literal 1,000 years (999+1) but an ancient Greek expression of a very long time. Could be two thousand years or more...
...ending with the Armageddon scenario...
meaning the thousand years reign is now... the age of grace... the era of Sabbath rest with God...
And Satan is bound according to Jude 6 and 1 Peter 3:19-20 and other texts for leaving his first estate when he entered Judas Iscariot and Judas killed himself...
...leaving only the evil in mankind and the evil in his fallen angels to account for the evil that has transpired for the last 2000 years...
Revelation 20:3 says he will be released, Revelation 13:3 says he will be raised from the dead, for a short season which we know as the 70th Week of Daniel.
There are too many biblical clues and arguments against an actual 1000 years after Christ returns it poses more problems than it solves to interpret it that way... 2 Armageddon scenarios... at least one extra resurrection...
We are a kingdom of priests now...
Revelation 1:6 (NASB95)
6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Revelation 5:10 (NASB95)
10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.â€
1 Peter 2:3-11 (NASB95)
3 if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.
4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,
5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 For this is contained in Scripture: “Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.â€
7 This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, “The stone which the builders rejected, This became the very corner stone,â€
8 and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offenseâ€; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.
Revelation 20 (NASB95)
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
The thousand year reign when the devil is bound ending with the Armageddon scenario... again?
A thousand year hold on the resurrection of the saints?
Jesus comes to earth to defend Israel from the Armageddon scenario (Zechariah 14:4 / 12:10 etc). Are the saints reunited with their bodies at his coming or not (1 Corinthians 15:51-57 / Thessalonians 4:13-18)?
Or... submitted for your consideration... "THE thousand years" verse 3 of Revelation 20... is not a literal 1,000 years (999+1) but an ancient Greek expression of a very long time. Could be two thousand years or more...
...ending with the Armageddon scenario...
meaning the thousand years reign is now... the age of grace... the era of Sabbath rest with God...
And Satan is bound according to Jude 6 and 1 Peter 3:19-20 and other texts for leaving his first estate when he entered Judas Iscariot and Judas killed himself...
...leaving only the evil in mankind and the evil in his fallen angels to account for the evil that has transpired for the last 2000 years...
Revelation 20:3 says he will be released, Revelation 13:3 says he will be raised from the dead, for a short season which we know as the 70th Week of Daniel.
There are too many biblical clues and arguments against an actual 1000 years after Christ returns it poses more problems than it solves to interpret it that way... 2 Armageddon scenarios... at least one extra resurrection...
We are a kingdom of priests now...
Revelation 1:6 (NASB95)
6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Revelation 5:10 (NASB95)
10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.â€
1 Peter 2:3-11 (NASB95)
3 if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.
4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,
5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 For this is contained in Scripture: “Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.â€
7 This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, “The stone which the builders rejected, This became the very corner stone,â€
8 and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offenseâ€; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.
I'll bite. Care to elaborate? Thanks.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
Since years is Plural, the Greek demands thousand (Adjective) to also be Plural. So, Rev 20 is translated correct 1,000 years. Even though chilioi is Plural (Thousands)
This if if you just assume that the 1st resurrection has not occurred. This would be an extreme form of preterism, or a messed up version of a Post Trib view. The first resurrection has already happened, even the 144,000 are with Jesus in Rev 14. All are accounted for but that which needs judged. Those that came out of the tribulation also get to be with Jesus.
The rest of the bodies are not brought back until 1,000 years in which they may face the 2nd death after judgment or no eternal life with God but cast into the lake of fire.
We are kings and priest now, the Kingdom of God is here and now. I am not sure why this would effect the 1,000 year reign though. Faith is always, I have it now, and I call those things that be not as though they are. You become a Child of God after making Jesus Lord, not wait around until you die or Jesus shows up.
I don't know how you figure in another Armageddon. There is none mentioned after Rev 20.
Mike.
The world is rallied to attack the Holy City again?
1. So which is it? Plural or not plural? Your reply is unclear.
2. The first resurrection (aside from the Lord Jesus himself and only him) has not taken place yet. Ask your self, when Jesus returns bringing with him his saints (those who are dead in Christ) to what will they resurrection if they are already bodily resurrected?
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NASB95)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
3. Preterism? LOL I have refuted Preterism in all forms in debates with Gary DeMar and Ken Gentry on the old CrossTalk radio show in the 1990's. The host Mr. Agozino himself a full Preterist was so ticked off at me he cut off my phone line in mid sentence.
Nah... I'm no Preterist... not a Post Tribber....
4. Once the 70th Week of Daniel is properly understood you will find the rapture will occur PRE-great tribulation, MID-70th Week of Daniel, POST-believer's tribulation... all three scripture-quoting camps were correct... they just misinterpreted the 70th Week of Daniel to be one seven-year tribulation period when in fact it is two three-and-a-half-year tribulations (divided in several places in scripture in several ways: 1260 days, 42 months, time+times+1/2 a time).
And there is the believer's tribulation at the first part of the 70th week than most like to ignore or mistranslate as pertaining to the Jews...
Revelation 13:5-10 (NASB95)
5 There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.
10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.
This is what the mark of the beast is all about... flushing out the one people on earth who will not accept the mark.
5. Armageddon
Revelation 20:7-10 (NASB95)
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Okay I give and say uncle. Thanks anyway.
Trinitarian theology? Thought this was about Revelation 20...
Fact of the matter is, each individual of the triune God is a Father of something. That is not to say all three is the Heavenly Father. Each is holy and each is spirit which is not to say all three are the Holy Spirit.
In fact, determining by scripture what each is the Father of bolsters the Trinity doctrine since each is uniquely the Father of what they are the Father of and the other two are not.
For example...
God the Author, Father of revelation and of the scriptures:
2 Peter 1:20-21 (NASB95)
20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,
21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
God the Authority
Acts 1:7 (NASB95)
7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;
John 10:29 (NASB95)
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
who became the Father of the incarnate Word...
Hebrews 10:5 (NASB95)
5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, “Sacrifice and offering You have not desired, But a body You have prepared for Me;
Hebrews 1:5 (NASB95)
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say, “You are My Son,Today I have begotten You� And again, “I will be a Father to Him And He shall be a Son to Me�
The body of Jesus being the only thing he created...
John 1:14 (NASB95)
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Then there's God the Word the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning:
John 1:1-3 (NASB95)
1 In the beginning was the Word**, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
**Clarify that this is Jesus preincarnate by John 1:14
Colossians 1:13-16 (NASB95)
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Isaiah 44:24 (NASB95)
24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,
Now the Father (1 John 1:2) and the Spirit (Genesis 1:2) were there, but Jesus (preincarnate) did all the creating himself which is the correct interpretation of Hebrews 1:2 that of those in the Godhead only the Son did the creating in the beginning.
Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB95)
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
Kind of like saying the Trump family fortune was made through or by Donald Sr.
Oh, also in Isaiah 44:24, our Redeemer is mentioned. That's Jesus. The Father did not redeem us. He was the one to whom payment was due. The Spirit did not redeem us. Only Jesus. And since he is the lone creator it is clear why he is the one who became a man and the sacrifice for sins... he was taking responsibility for his creation.
The Trinity is easy to understand once we let the Bible do the talking and not man. The Apostle's Creed (so-called) is wrong in tenet #1 claiming God the Father created heaven and earth... which I just showed you biblically is not correct. The Son (before he became the Son) did the creating. Not the Father.
This also clears up how Jesus could be called everlasting Father in Isaiah 9:6 Jesus is the Father of creation and according to Colossians 1:16 that includes the spirit realm hence the actual translation in Isaiah 9:6 "father of eternity..."
Jesus is not his Father (the Heavenly Father or as I call him God the Authority).
Going back to the very beginning and to the basic truths about each:
God the Authority (we now call God the Father)
God the Word (God the Son)
God the Author (God the Holy Spirit)
Hope this helps.
Hi and thanks JohnD for your thoughts on this.To me the destruction of the first two temples was not Armageddon.
Revelation 9:16. "And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them," (An army of 200 million)
Revelation 9:18. "By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths." (Over 2 billion will be killed) In other words, if you think past things were bad, you ain't seen noting yet.
I will also add that those of Revelation 20:8-9 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. (This is not much of a battle - God just makes crispy critters out of them, and then will come the judgment.)
Added note - (WikipediA - "As of 26 February 2010, the Earth's population is estimated by the United States Census Bureau to be 6,805,000,000." This would make the percentage of people descending upon Israel at near three percent, or .02939 of the world population.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
[MENTION=96720]JohnD[/MENTION]............ OK Because of the Greek rules Thousand which is Plural followed by an Adjective Years (Also Plural) takes on the Adjective. So the correct translation is exactly 1,000 years in that case. You can look at Peter 1 day = 1,000 and everywhere else it is used.
I guess that is why we have the expression "It's all Greek to me" The Greek Language is, let's say, different. Even the 3 types of nouns Neuter, Male and female. A wall could be male, the door female and the floor neuter, but there is always that "Unless" involved.
How we get into "Trinity Doctrine" here? This is not Trinity though. I wold need this pulled into a package to see how this fits an idea of 1,000 year reign by Jesus.
Ah...... Never mind, I see Truth and Tradition has come into the discussion. OK, I know He is going to have a solid point somewhere soon.
Awesome!!! we can get that out of the way. To have these discussions we need to know where each others foundation is.
Super Brother JohnD, I have to wait to see how this plays out a bit. I think you are directing that our answer lies where there is least resistance in the scriptures.
Blessings.
Mike.
I guess that is why we have the expression "It's all Greek to me" The Greek Language is, let's say, different. Even the 3 types of nouns Neuter, Male and female. A wall could be male, the door female and the floor neuter, but there is always that "Unless" involved.
How we get into "Trinity Doctrine" here? This is not Trinity though. I wold need this pulled into a package to see how this fits an idea of 1,000 year reign by Jesus.
Ah...... Never mind, I see Truth and Tradition has come into the discussion. OK, I know He is going to have a solid point somewhere soon.
Awesome!!! we can get that out of the way. To have these discussions we need to know where each others foundation is.
Super Brother JohnD, I have to wait to see how this plays out a bit. I think you are directing that our answer lies where there is least resistance in the scriptures.
Blessings.
Mike.
I believe we are in agreement that Armageddon has not happened yet. Meaning I ain't no Preterist, I'm a Futurist
It will happen once. Meaning the thousand year reign is a general reference to the church age no matter how many thousands of years it could be... IMHO it will only last another 35 years since a generation is roughly 100 years according to the 4 generations bondage in Egypt (approx 400 years)... and 1948 the bones were regathered in the holy land but have no spirit in them.
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Maybe God will allow your prayer to be answered to be there for the occasion while the rest of the Church is in heaven.
You in fact know what demons and angels are supposed to look like? Does John's description fit that perception?
Revelation 9:16-17 "And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them 17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision . ."
Maybe you need to realize the description of the army was in vision, but he heard the number of them; John describing them probably in the context of what he knew. How would he have described a helicopter he had never seen, or a tank?
Whatever they are they kill a third of mankind. Revelation 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed (Just how many is that? 2.25 billion?), by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Don't believe it?
I couldn't care less. The object of wrath is one third of mankind wiped out in Revelation 9:18 regardless of the pictures you have, and this part is what John heard according to Revelation 9:16; how he describes the instruments of destruction is according to the vision of Revelation 9:17. Maybe John wasn't as familiar with with demons to know what he was really seeing, and God was tolerant by grace in allowing him to describe them as he did.
jasoncran
Member
actually john uses the principal of first mention. even 666 is found before he even penned that, he also refers to other imagery found nearly exactly as seen by moses, Ezekiel, and Daniel. he does this in all his books. the book of life isn't found only in revalation but in exodus.the four living creatures are found in exodus with the line up of isreal around the tabernacle, the prophets isiah and Ezekiel see them.the color of the ancient of days is seen by moses, and the thunderings as well.horses are also described by john as those that were used by the angels to do battle on. Elijah has that vision revealed to the man in fear of the Syrians as the armies of the lord were with isreal.the beasts seen are similar to Daniel's by john.
now that is studying, without any respect to eschatology as all view must deal with the first revalation of such things.now then I will not debate here. I have deleted my posts which you quoted @Eugene.
now that is studying, without any respect to eschatology as all view must deal with the first revalation of such things.now then I will not debate here. I have deleted my posts which you quoted @Eugene.
Isaiah 65:13-25 (KJV)
The Church Age (the thousand years of Revelation 20):
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:
14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
The millennium in the new creation:
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
There will be a millennium after the return of Christ and the old heaven / earth order is eliminated and the new takes its place. The thousand year reign in Revelation 20 is not that millennium. It is the Church age before the return of Christ.
The Church Age (the thousand years of Revelation 20):
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:
14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
The millennium in the new creation:
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
There will be a millennium after the return of Christ and the old heaven / earth order is eliminated and the new takes its place. The thousand year reign in Revelation 20 is not that millennium. It is the Church age before the return of Christ.