Three Days and Three Nights

[archangel_300]

The women from Galilee AND certain OTHER woman came with them bringing the spices they prepared.
There are two sets of women described here. One can conclude that one set of women prepared spices BEFORE the Sabbath... the other according to Mark prepared spices AFTER the Sabbath.

Naw, I disagree. It's late and I've got to get up early. I'll come up with some scripture tomorrow and see what you think.
God bless ya and have a good day tomorrow ( a full 12 hrs. )
Westtexas

Sure thing! Have a good one bud!
God Bless!

 

[cyberjosh]

Eccl12and13,

Your post about the 'high' sabbath days was interesting. What source did you learn that from? I would like to look into it for myself as well.

Thanks,

~Josh

 

[glorydaz]

The phrase "three days and three nights" appears in a single verse in Matthew's gospel and does not appear in any of the other gospels. All the other references count only the days, and not the days and nights...a few examples below. If it were 3 literal days and nights, then Jesus would have to be risen on the 4th day. That is not what the Word says. I've already put up other scriptures to show days and nights do not mean full days and nights.

Without even getting into the Sabbath...which also fits in with a Fri. crucifixion, and a Sun. morning resurrection, it's pretty simple to figure out that three days and three nights would result in a resurrection on the fourth day. Friday...day one. Sat....day two. Sunday...raised the third day. It was common practice...read the Talmud and see for yourselves...to say day and night whether the night was involved at all. I gave scriptures already for anyone that cares to read where the same thing is done in Samuel, Gen., Est...and with Joseph.

It's really discouraging to even bother discussing this since MM is so free to slander me on the board. I suppose I could start "warning" people about him, too, but I'm pretty sure most people can see for themselves. I really don't care what people believe on this issue. I was merely pointing out that the Jews considered part of a day as a day, they counted the day it happened, and they called a night with the day whether there was a night or not. I gave scripture as an example, and people are free to take it or leave it. I just don't appreciate the comments that seem to be coming from the flesh....it's flat getting old.

From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. (Matt.16:21)

And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry. (Matt. 17:23)

And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again. (Matt. 20:19)

... This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days. (Matt. 26:61)

... Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. (Matt. 27:40)

... Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first. (Matt. 27:63-64)

And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. (Mark 8:31)

For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. (Mark 9:31)

 

[archangel_300]

When one follows the guidelines set out in the Hebrew calendar, it becomes undeniable that Jesus' prophecy of three days and three nights could not have been fulfilled.

Recognizing that most biblical scholars place the crucifixtion on Friday afternoon (the synoptics point to the ninth hour ie 3 p.m. as to the time of Jeus' death) one could count the 3 remaining hours until sunset as one day. Then from sunset Friday (the beginning of the Sabbath) to sunrise Saturday is one night.

From sunrise Saturday to sunset Saturday is day two. From sunset Saturday to sunrise Sunday is two nights. The synoptics all point to a time early in the morning of Sunday as to the time of Jesus' reappearance. So even if we are liberal and state that Jesus was seen a little after sunrise on Sunday and count that as a very short day three- the maximum time frames amount to 3 very partial days and 2 nights- not the 3 days and 3 nights of Jonah.

Plus the inconsistency of Nissan 14 (John) and Nissan 15 (synoptics) in irreconcilable unless one stretches the imagination beyond reason and starts to bring in differing ways of using the Hebrew calendar which frankly, is absurd.

But the problem is that Thursday night is when Christ's suffering for sin truly started.
It is three nights. I see "3 days and 3 nights" not referring to a literal 3 days and 3 nights after death when his body was in the tomb. The 3 days and 3 nights refers to the period of time Christ speaks about when He states "destroy this temple and in 3 days raise it". John 2:19-21 The temple he speaks about is His body which was used to bear the sin of mankind. It was destroyed and made a curse so we can be redeemed and this started on Thursday in the Garden when he was betrayed and given into the hands of men. It was the cup of God's wrath that was pouring out on Jesus in full force which is why he was sweating and his soul was sorrowful unto death. It was that cup that Jesus prayed three times might pass from him.

 

[glorydaz]

If you support Fri to Sun with 1 Sabbath, how do you correlate the above verses archangel has quoted? Luke 23:56 says they prepared spices AND THEN RESTED ON THE SABBATH. Mark 16:1 says they BOUGHT SPICES WHEN THE SABBATH WAS OVER. If only 1 sabbath is involved, how do you prepare the spices and rest on the next day, if the next verse says you haven't even bought the spices until After the Sabbath?

After the crucifixion...the women prepared spices (before sundown) and rested the Sabbath day.

And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Here, the women "had bought" spices already or they bought some more. We know they prepared spices before the Sabbath started...just after the crucifixion. (from Luke above), so they prepared what they had on Friday, and perhaps bought more on Sat. night or they "had bought" means they'd already purchased them Friday when they "prepared" them.

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

I say one Sabbath because of what Luke writes..."according to the commandment". The day of preparation would have been Friday, with the Sabbath (commanded weekly Sabbath) starting at sundown. Besides being the weekly Sabbath (according to the commandment), it was the Passover. Jesus is our Passover Lamb. That only occurs once every 10 years or so, and you can be sure the exact timing was rearranged.

And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Nicodemus had already wound the body with linen and spices...whether the women knew or not, I imagine they all wanted to show their respect anyway.

And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus gave us the timetable....

The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee. And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Friday - 14 Nisan - slaying of the Passover Lamb

Saturday - 15 Nisan - 1st day of unleavened bread -Sunset began the 15th day of Nisan. Jesus was buried, just in time for the Feast of Unleavened Bread. In the grave His body did not decay or see corruption. He fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened Bread

Sunday - 16 Nisan - First Fruits (resurrection)

 

[archangel_300]

It's really discouraging to even bother discussing this since MM is so free to slander me on the board. I suppose I could start "warning" people about him, too, but I'm pretty sure most people can see for themselves. I really don't care what people believe on this issue. I was merely pointing out that the Jews considered part of a day as a day, they counted the day it happened, and they called a night with the day whether there was a night or not. I gave scripture as an example, and people are free to take it or leave it. I just don't appreciate the comments that seem to be coming from the flesh....it's flat getting old.

glory... BTW, I think you are correct in all the doctrines I've seen you post so far. I agree with what Westtexas mentioned, it's NOT cool. You and I are actually on the same page in most if not all issues we've discussed on separate different threads so far. I tried to be as neutral as possible in my post because he or she appears to be getting very upset on this particular issue and I'm not quite sure why since it's not a big issue at all.

 

[archangel_300]

Friday - 14 Nisan - slaying of the Passover Lamb

Saturday - 15 Nisan - 1st day of unleavened bread -Sunset began the 15th day of Nisan. Jesus was buried, just in time for the Feast of Unleavened Bread. In the grave His body did not decay or see corruption. He fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened Bread

Sunday - 16 Nisan - First Fruits (resurrection)

There's only one difference I have between my time table and yours.

Thursday - 14 Nisan - Jesus celebrated Passover Seder with his disciples.
Friday - 15 Nisan - Crucifixion, first day of Passover / Preparation Day for the weekly sabbath
Saturday - 16 Nisan - Weekly Sabbath
Sunday - 17 Nisan - Resurrection

 

[glorydaz]

Friday - 14 Nisan - slaying of the Passover Lamb

Saturday - 15 Nisan - 1st day of unleavened bread -Sunset began the 15th day of Nisan. Jesus was buried, just in time for the Feast of Unleavened Bread. In the grave His body did not decay or see corruption. He fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened Bread

Sunday - 16 Nisan - First Fruits (resurrection)

There's only one difference I have between my time table and yours.

Thursday - 14 Nisan - Jesus celebrated Passover Seder with his disciples.
Friday - 15 Nisan - Crucifixion, first day of Passover / Preparation Day for the weekly sabbath
Saturday - 16 Nisan - Weekly Sabbath
Sunday - 17 Nisan - Resurrection

Remember, Nisan 14 begins at sundown on Thursday. So Thursday evening through Friday evening is Nisan 14. According to the Torah, the Passover Lamb was killed on Nisan 14...Thursday evening is the the beginning of Nisan 14...it then goes through until after the crucifixion. Jesus went out to the Garden of Gethsemane after dinner on the evening (beginning) of Nisan 14. The dinner probably took a few hours. Then Jesus prays while his disciples sleep--presumably this entailed a few hours also. John says Jesus was arrested after dark...the beginning of Nisan 14...then he was crucified Fri. before the Sabbath (sundown) on Nisan 15. The best way to keep it straight is with the feasts. We know when they were, so we can know which days Jesus fulfilled each feast.

 

[archangel_300]

Friday - 14 Nisan - slaying of the Passover Lamb

Saturday - 15 Nisan - 1st day of unleavened bread -Sunset began the 15th day of Nisan. Jesus was buried, just in time for the Feast of Unleavened Bread. In the grave His body did not decay or see corruption. He fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened Bread

Sunday - 16 Nisan - First Fruits (resurrection)

There's only one difference I have between my time table and yours.

Thursday - 14 Nisan - Jesus celebrated Passover Seder with his disciples.
Friday - 15 Nisan - Crucifixion, first day of Passover / Preparation Day for the weekly sabbath
Saturday - 16 Nisan - Weekly Sabbath
Sunday - 17 Nisan - Resurrection

Remember, Nisan 14 begins at sundown on Thursday. So Thursday evening through Friday evening is Nisan 14. According to the Torah, the Passover Lamb was killed on Nisan 14...Thursday evening is the the beginning of Nisan 14...it then goes through until after the crucifixion. Jesus went out to the Garden of Gethsemane after dinner on the evening (beginning) of Nisan 14. The dinner probably took a few hours. Then Jesus prays while his disciples sleep--presumably this entailed a few hours also. John says Jesus was arrested after dark...the beginning of Nisan 14...then he was crucified Fri. before the Sabbath (sundown) on Nisan 15. The best way to keep it straight is with the feasts. We know when they were, so we can know which days Jesus fulfilled each feast.

Nice!

 

[glorydaz]

It's really discouraging to even bother discussing this since MM is so free to slander me on the board. I suppose I could start "warning" people about him, too, but I'm pretty sure most people can see for themselves. I really don't care what people believe on this issue. I was merely pointing out that the Jews considered part of a day as a day, they counted the day it happened, and they called a night with the day whether there was a night or not. I gave scripture as an example, and people are free to take it or leave it. I just don't appreciate the comments that seem to be coming from the flesh....it's flat getting old.

glory... BTW, I think you are correct in all the doctrines I've seen you post so far. I agree with what Westtexas mentioned, it's NOT cool. You and I are actually on the same page in most if not all issues we've discussed on separate different threads so far. I tried to be as neutral as possible in my post because he or she appears to be getting very upset on this particular issue and I'm not quite sure why since it's not a big issue at all.

Thanks...There are some things that are not essential to our salvation, but they certainly can affect our walk and going on into maturity. I really try to avoid contentions, but I also feel an obligation to speak up when I see something contrary to the Word. I can't say why certain people feel the need to get all bent out of shape when they can't convince someone of their particular doctrine. It certainly doesn't convince me when someone demands they are right, but can't support it from the Word. I've bumped up against MM on many issues...it just gets old having accusations hurled...especially when I know he is most often in error, and unwilling to learn. As far as this topic goes...I agree, it's not an essential to one's salvation. But it is important to know that Jesus fulfilled the feasts on the days they were supposed to be accomplished.

 

[Vic C.]

I have a basic question. Was Jesus crucified on the first day of Passover?

Absolutely not! The first full day of the Passover feast was a High Sabbath. No work, remember? He was crucified on what we would call Passover Eve, or just prior to eve.

Also, for those who get into the math and calendars, Passover and the weekly sabbath did not fall on the same day.

To reconcile every last prophecy pertaining to the "sacrificial lamb" a Wed. (Nisan 14) Passover Eve is the most sound explanation. Do the research and study without the "traditional sunglasses" on.

So it appears, so far at least, that there is no historical documentation that shows that the phrase; “ 3 days AND 3 nightsâ€, was a unique first century idiom of Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek which could mean something different than what the phrase means in English? But the topic is still young.

I don't believe there was anything unique about their idiom that would suggest three days and three nights could be anything less than... three days and three nights! There is creditable evidence that a "day" (not day and night) can be a significant part of a day, as mentioned above. What I mean by significant is, I highly doubt that 1 or 1 1/2 hours would be considered a "day", unless one is trying to squeeze through a legal loophole.

"We" often do that today, even though it's not technically correct. I mean, if I worked from 9 am today and left work at say 2 am the following morning, I would not say I worked for two days.

Jesus said three days and three nights and I believe Him with all my heart and mind.

 

[watchman F]

But the problem is that Thursday night is when Christ's suffering for sin truly started. It is three nights. I see "3 days and 3 nights" not referring to a literal 3 days and 3 nights after death when his body was in the tomb. The 3 days and 3 nights refers to the period of time Christ speaks about when He states "destroy this temple and in 3 days raise it". John 2:19-21 The temple he speaks about is His body which was used to bear the sin of mankind. It was destroyed and made a curse so we can be redeemed and this started on Thursday in the Garden when he was betrayed and given into the hands of men. It was the cup of God's wrath that was pouring out on Jesus in full force which is why he was sweating and his soul was sorrowful unto death. It was that cup that Jesus prayed three times might pass from him.

This is were your problem is Jesus was playing word games or misleading people when He said that He would be 3 days and 3 night in Hell/the belly of the Earth/ Abraham's bosom, He meant exactly what He said. When you have to start spiritualising, speculating, or theorizing on what He might have meant instead accepting His words as truth you will most definitely run into problems, and come up with false conclusions.

 

[glorydaz]

I have a basic question. Was Jesus crucified on the first day of Passover?

Also, for those who get into the math and calendars, Passover and the weekly sabbath did not fall on the same day.

I don't believe there was anything unique about their idiom that would suggest three days and three nights could be anything less than... three days and three nights! There is creditable evidence that a "day" (not day and night) can be a significant part of a day, as mentioned above. What I mean by significant is, I highly doubt that 1 or 1 1/2 hours would be considered a "day", unless one is trying to squeeze through a legal loophole.

"We" often do that today, even though it's not technically correct. I mean, if I worked from 9 am today and left work at say 2 am the following morning, I would not say I worked for two days.

Jesus said three days and three nights and I believe Him with all my heart and mind.

Actually, Passover and the Sabbath do fall on the same day ten or eleven times every century. The year Christ died was just such a year. He died in the time "appointed." He died at the time appointed in order to be the Passover Lamb.

He also said He would raise the third day....many many times. The Jews always counted the "today" as the first day. Friday was the first day, Sat. the second day, and He rose on Sunday, the third day. They always said nights with the days...ie. The flood was 40 days and 40 nights, Moses was 40 days and 40 nights on the Mount, Jesus was 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness, and Job's friends sat up with him seven days and seven nights. They never said seven days and six nights. Let me ask you...if it were truly three days and three nights, wouldn't Christ have to have risen the 4th day?

Why did they only guard the tomb until the third day?

Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

Jesus said he'd be raised the third day....just as Jonah was. No matter which day you have Jesus dying on, in order to be three nights in the tomb, he'd have to be raised the fourth day. The Jewish day was measured from sun down to sun down. If Jesus was in the grave for three 24 hour periods, then He could not have been raised on the third day because the third day had not yet been completed. He would have to be raised on fourth day for three 24 hour periods to have been completed, and that wouldn't make sense to then say He was raised on the third day. Think about it.

 

[archangel_300]

[quote="archangel_300":1ih9ee7c]But the problem is that Thursday night is when Christ's suffering for sin truly started. It is three nights. I see "3 days and 3 nights" not referring to a literal 3 days and 3 nights after death when his body was in the tomb. The 3 days and 3 nights refers to the period of time Christ speaks about when He states "destroy this temple and in 3 days raise it". John 2:19-21 The temple he speaks about is His body which was used to bear the sin of mankind. It was destroyed and made a curse so we can be redeemed and this started on Thursday in the Garden when he was betrayed and given into the hands of men. It was the cup of God's wrath that was pouring out on Jesus in full force which is why he was sweating and his soul was sorrowful unto death. It was that cup that Jesus prayed three times might pass from him.

This is were your problem is Jesus was playing word games or misleading people when He said that He would be 3 days and 3 night in Hell/the belly of the Earth/ Abraham's bosom, He meant exactly what He said. When you have to start spiritualising, speculating, or theorizing on what He might have meant instead accepting His words as truth you will most definitely run into problems, and come up with false conclusions.[/quote:1ih9ee7c]

Yes I could quite possibly be wrong. Perhaps Jesus did mean 3 days and 3 nights of his body being physically dead in the grave, this I'm not too sure about. But I am fairly certain that the wrath of God was being poured out on Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, also on the cross we see Christ forsaken by the Father. Also I'm waiting for a better answer than Wednesday. Seeing glory's explanation of how Hebrew time is observed I think we're one step closer to Wednesday than before... I think "Einstein's paradox" is becoming obsolete. But I still think there might be some biblical conflicts with Wednesday. Doing some more research right now.

 

[archangel_300]

To reconcile every last prophecy pertaining to the "sacrificial lamb" a Wed. (Nisan 14) Passover Eve is the most sound explanation. Do the research and study without the "traditional sunglasses" on.

As far as I can see at this point in time the only problem I have with Wednesday crucifixion is the following passage.

Matthew 28:1 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

This Sabbath day is definitely the weekly Sabbath.
When you compare this part of scripture with the book of Luke and Mark this Sabbath day must be the day following Christ's crucifixion. If you have Wednesday crucifixion this means Friday was the day Mary and the other women visited the tomb.

 

[westtexas]

Actually, Passover and the Sabbath do fall on the same day ten or eleven times every century. The year Christ died was just such a year.

Have you got a source for this statement Glory, or is it simply a statement from Glory that is necessary to make the traditional Good Friday crucifixtion work?
Westtexas

 

[glorydaz]

Actually, Passover and the Sabbath do fall on the same day ten or eleven times every century. The year Christ died was just such a year.

Have you got a source for this statement Glory, or is it simply a statement from Glory that is necessary to make the traditional Good Friday crucifixtion work?
Westtexas

Ya know, West Texas, I'm not one to hold to the traditions of men, and I hadn't given it much thought one way or another until I started reading this thread and searching Scripture. I'm not sure why everyone is always so quick to assume someone follows the traditions of men. I never have and I don't plan on starting now in my old age.

I'd done quite a bit of study on the feasts in the past, and that was the basis for my understanding on how Jesus fulfilled the spring feasts. Then, out of curiosity about the debate over the Passover, I simply googled some Jewish sites and found from several of them that the Passover falls on the Sabbath ten or 11 times a century. Since they all used that number, I figured they must know. I also know that they rushed to take Jesus down before the "commanded" Sabbath came on. That would have to be the end of week Sabbath...the others weren't commandments.

Anyway, I can't find the exact sites...I'd accessed the Jewish calendar, too.
I believe these will give you the idea, and the last link points out 10 or 11 times in a century, although I just saw another one that said up to 14 times depending. As you'll see they rotate.
http://www.karaite-korner.org/shavuot.shtml
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... 8&letter=P

http://www.eternalcog.org/ecgarticles/c ... ostps.html

 

[westtexas]

Actually, Passover and the Sabbath do fall on the same day ten or eleven times every century. The year Christ died was just such a year.

Have you got a source for this statement Glory, or is it simply a statement from Glory that is necessary to make the traditional Good Friday crucifixtion work?
Westtexas

I was just havin fun Glory. It has to roll around to hit on the weekly Sabbath every once in awhile, I'm not smart enough to do the math but it seems to me like it would be every 7 yrs or so if it backs up like our calender does. I was really refering to the part about the exact date on the crucifixtion of our Lord and I know this can't be verified or this discussion would not take place yr after yr after yr.

Let me try to make my point a different way but I need an answer from you first. You have studied the Hebrew feasts also. Do you agree that the wave offering (as per Lev. 23:11) would fall on the day after the Passover Sabbath?
Westtexas

 

[glorydaz]

.

Actually, Passover and the Sabbath do fall on the same day ten or eleven times every century. The year Christ died was just such a year.

Have you got a source for this statement Glory, or is it simply a statement from Glory that is necessary to make the traditional Good Friday crucifixtion work?
Westtexas

I was just havin fun Glory. It has to roll around to hit on the weekly Sabbath every once in awhile, I'm not smart enough to do the math but it seems to me like it would be every 7 yrs or so if it backs up like our calender does. I was really refering to the part about the exact date on the crucifixtion of our Lord and I know this can't be verified or this discussion would not take place yr after yr after yr.

Let me try to make my point a different way but I need an answer from you first. You have studied the Hebrew feasts also. Do you agree that the wave offering (as per Lev. 23:11) would fall on the day after the Passover Sabbath?
Westtexas

Haha...I'm glad you're having fun at my expense. I do believe you Texans just can't resist. ;)

Yes, I do agree the wave offering (first fruits) (speaking of the ressurection) would fall the day after the Sabbath.

I'd be interested in seeing where you find a "Passover Sabbath", though. The Passover was a week-long feast. What made the timing so important was the Jesus must raise the third day, and it had to be the day after the Sabbath, in order to fulfill the first fruits (wave sheaf). He also had to be sacrificed at the exact time as the Passover Lamb, which means 14 Nisan. It was called a "High Sabbath" because it was the weekly Sabbath and the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Passover is Nisan 14 and Unleavened Bread is Nisan 15 (Lev.23:15-22), but the entire eight-day period can be called either Passover or Unleavened Bread (Luke 22:7) "Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed." They don't make it easy with all the preparation and feasting that goes on, that's for sure.