Three person God identified in the Bible?

[theWind]

I have searched the Scriptures for years and have found that it does exist. The early church believed the foundations of the Trinity existed, precisely because it is implicitly taught in Scripture, with the deity of Jesus being quite explicitly taught

It'd be much quicker to produce the book/chapter/passage that "teaches" a trinity concept - that teaches all readers very clearly that God is three persons.

Soon as you, or anybody in the world, can provide that, all who know otherwise will concede.

Jesus is not at all the Holy Spirit. Look, just earlier:

Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. (ESV)

So, in that same discourse, Jesus clearly says that the Holy Spirit is "another Helper," which means the Holy Spirit is distinct from Jesus. That is confirmed all throughout the NT, including:

Mat 3:16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;
Mat 3:17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” (ESV)

Mat 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Mat 12:29 Or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house.
Mat 12:30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
Mat 12:31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
Mat 12:32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (ESV)

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (ESV)

1Pe 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. (ESV)


That just speaks of the closeness, the intimacy of the Holy Spirit to both the Father and the Son. But it is never even implied that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same.


Not at all. It is actually affirmed.

Not one of those verses accomplished what you claimed they did. Most of them contradicted your very position. The Spirit of God came down like a dove.

It wasn't a dove, nor any third individual.

There is no mention whatsoever of a third individual in John 14:21-23. It would've been a prime opportunity for Jesus to mention a third party there. Also, you ignore all of the Romans passage.
Romans 8:9-11 makes clear that Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

God is a spirit.
John 4:24

Jesus IS that spirit.

The trinity is just not supported with Scripture. Mass quantities of the Bible must be ignored, and even fabricated, for the doctrine to be embraced.

It is a 100% false doctrine and the OT demolishes the concept throughout.

 

[theWind]

Okay, you're on "ignore" status. When you have even a minimum understanding of the Trinity, we can discuss things further.

You don't even have a minimum understanding of it because it can't be understood.

When you can provide plain Scripture that "teaches" the concept that God is three persons, we can discuss further.

 

[Free]

It'd be much quicker to produce the book/chapter/passage that "teaches" a trinity concept - that teaches all readers very clearly that God is three persons.

This is an almost naive approach to biblical interpretation. One must never take just one verse or passage on a matter; one must take all into account that the Bible says. In this case, there are numerous verses that have to be taken into account. Anti-trinitarians continually fail at this concept, in every discussion I've had with them.

The irony is, you want a verse or passage that clearly teaches the Trinity, yet you cannot provide one verse that clearly teaches Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

Soon as you, or anybody in the world, can provide that, all who know otherwise will concede.

No, even if there was one verse that explicitly taught the Trinity, or even on hundred, there would be people who wouldn't concede. It's just human nature to maintain one's position even in the face of clear contradictory evidence. Even Jesus spoke of this:

Luk 16:30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
Luk 16:31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’” (ESV)

Not one of those verses accomplished what you claimed they did.

How about actually addressing each passage or verse one at a time and show where my understanding is wrong. Your saying that they're wrong doesn't make it so.

Most of them contradicted your very position.

Then show how, in each case.

The Spirit of God came down like a dove.

It wasn't a dove, nor any third individual.

Of course it wasn't a dove, that would be to miss the point entirely. Notice that Jesus is in the water and the Holy Spirit comes down, and the Father speaks. It can't be argued that the Son is the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit came down from heaven and rested on the Son, without doing violence to the text.

There is no mention whatsoever of a third individual in John 14:21-23. It would've been a prime opportunity for Jesus to mention a third party there.

Except that he has already said it just a few verses prior. Why should he have to mention it twice? Would that have made it more true? Would you have believed it then? No, for the reason I stated previously.

Consider also:

Luk 24:49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.” (ESV)

What is that promise that Jesus is sending?

Joh 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. (ESV)

(Which is what Jesus already stated in 14:16 and repeats yet again in 16:7-15.)

And what is the result of that sending?

Act 2:32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. (ESV)

Consider also:

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Joh 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;
Joh 16:10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer;
Joh 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
Joh 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (ESV)

This last passage clearly shows not only that Jesus is not the Spirit, unless we want to ignore all rules of grammar and logic, but that the Holy Spirit convicts, guides, hears, speaks, declares, takes. Those are things persons do.

Also, you ignore all of the Romans passage.
Romans 8:9-11 makes clear that Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

Firstly, I didn't ignore it. I clearly replied: "That just speaks of the closeness, the intimacy of the Holy Spirit to both the Father and the Son. But it is never even implied that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same."

However, let's look at it more closely, since it presents a problem for you:

Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. (ESV)

The problem for you here is that you are, without basis for doing so, equating Jesus with the Holy Spirit when you could just as well equate the Holy Spirit with the Father. It actually mentions the latter more than the former. Or, perhaps you believe they are all one and the same. Is that what you believe?

Secondly, you ignored most of the passages I posted, so I'm not sure why you would make that claim, especially when I did respond to yours.

God is a spirit.
John 4:24

"Is Spirit," yes. And?

Jesus IS that spirit.

I have shown that he clearly is not. They are constantly and consistently differentiated from each other throughout the NT.

The trinity is just not supported with Scripture. Mass quantities of the Bible must be ignored, and even fabricated, for the doctrine to be embraced.

On the contrary, it is actually the other way around, since the Trinity most certainly is supported by Scripture. It hasn't stood the test of time for so long because it isn't in the Bible. If the Reformation would have changed anything, it certainly would have changed that belief if they had found it to not exist in Scripture.

It is a 100% false doctrine and the OT demolishes the concept throughout.

Is that so? How, exactly, does the OT do that?

 

[theWind]

The irony is, you want a verse or passage that clearly teaches the Trinity, yet you cannot provide one verse that clearly teaches Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

No one is restricted to the 'proving that Jesus is the Holy Spirit' in order to prove the trinity's illegitimacy. The entire Bible proves it, over and over again.

No, even if there was one verse that explicitly taught the Trinity, or even on hundred, there would be people who wouldn't concede. It's just human nature to maintain one's position even in the face of clear contradictory evidence. Even Jesus spoke of this:

Luk 16:30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
Luk 16:31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’” (ESV)

Again, you are working against your own point as your initial assertion there is juvenile and the verses posted support the concept that no trinity-embracer will ever believe otherwise if they can't see clearly in the Scriptures that it isn't so. If they won't believe the Bible's clear message, from Genesis to Revelation, that God is ONE person, they won't believe if a hundred people tell them the same things and use Scripture to prove each and every point.

Of course it wasn't a dove, that would be to miss the point entirely. Notice that Jesus is in the water and the Holy Spirit comes down, and the Father speaks. It can't be argued that the Son is the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit came down from heaven and rested on the Son, without doing violence to the text.

As already stated, nobody can believe in a trinity without ignoring, or being ignorant of, mass quantities of Scripture.

Jer. 23:24 alone tells us that God is omnipresent. He can be everywhere, including all of the heavens and the earth, at once. That means He can exist, as He always has and always will, in the heavens while simultaneously existing in the physical flesh body that He put His spirit into within the womb/egg of Mary.

Luk 24:49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.” (ESV)

What is that promise that Jesus is sending?

Joh 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. (ESV)

(Which is what Jesus already stated in 14:16 and repeats yet again in 16:7-15.)

And who is it now who sends the helper? Are you sure?

Is it Jesus who sends it in the Father's Name or is it the Father who sends it in Jesus' Name?

"... the Comforter, ... whom the Father will send in My Name, ..."
John 14:26
"... when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, ..."
John 15:26

Who has the authority to send it? Looks like you've got another problem to figure out.

This is a problem for your position, but doesn't contradict mine in the least.

There is no trinity.

Consider also:

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

Yet another verse that hurts your case, but supports mine.

Why does Jesus have to leave for the Comforter to come?

Why can't the supposedly completely separate person holy spirit come on down while Jesus is still there?

He is not a separate person.

This last passage clearly shows not only that Jesus is not the Spirit, unless we want to ignore all rules of grammar and logic, but that the Holy Spirit convicts, guides, hears, speaks, declares, takes. Those are things persons do.

Human limited rules of grammar and logic aren't even relevant in a discussion about the nature of God Almighty. God is not limited in any way, shape or form.

Those are also things that God, in general, does.

it is never even implied that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same."

Like I've said, you have no choice but to flat ignore proof and Truth as it is a clear and present danger to your position.

Look again:
"... ye are ... in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, ... the spirit is life because of righteousness."
Romans 8:9-10

It is Christ Himself that indwells the Spirit-Filled Believer.

Not some third person of the trinity.

They are constantly and consistently differentiated from each other throughout the NT.

Absurdly false.

Who calls people, the Father or the Son? And who must we go through to get to God?

"No man can come to Me except the Father ... draw (call) him ..."
John 6:44
"... no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me."
John 14:6

We must go through the Father to get to the Son, but we must go through the Son to get to the Father.

Yet another problem for you, but not a problem for me at all.

On the contrary, it is actually the other way around, since the Trinity most certainly is supported by Scripture.

Absolutely nowhere. Taught nowhere, explained nowhere and contradicted repeatedly throughout the sacred pages of Scripture.

It hasn't stood the test of time for so long because it isn't in the Bible.

It didn't even become a thing until the Counsel of Nicea in about 300 A.D.

After that, there were literally countless Christians tortured and murdered all over the world for about 1500 years for refusing to accept and embrace such abominable heresy.

If the Reformation would have changed anything, it certainly would have changed that belief if they had found it to not exist in Scripture.

They tried, and mightily. There were Bibles translated properly into all languages and great men of God who fought valiantly to maintain the Truth of His Word. They were almost all captured and killed in horrible ways for the Holy Testimony.

Is that so? How, exactly, does the OT do that?

The OT proves the trinity is nonsense in countless ways. It refers to God as a He hundreds of times in places where it would be best to refer to a they. A pronoun like He can never refer to three persons, no matter how it is twisted or perverted.

God the Father claims to be, and do, every single thing the trinity claims only Jesus is, or did.

I can do exactly the same thing and post 50 verses, demanding you address each one of them.

The Bible, in its entirety, contradicts the concept of a trinity. It does so in its complete silence on the matter of God being 3 persons, and it does so in its repeated teachings of God being ONE individual person.

 

[Free]

No one is restricted to the 'proving that Jesus is the Holy Spirit' in order to prove the trinity's illegitimacy. The entire Bible proves it, over and over again.

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in demanding evidence while not being able to provide any oneself.

As already stated, nobody can believe in a trinity without ignoring, or being ignorant of, mass quantities of Scripture.

Yes, you have said that but you have to provide support.

Jer. 23:24 alone tells us that God is omnipresent. He can be everywhere, including all of the heavens and the earth, at once. That means He can exist, as He always has and always will, in the heavens while simultaneously existing in the physical flesh body that He put His spirit into within the womb/egg of Mary.

Which tells us nothing about whether or not God is triune.

And who is it now who sends the helper? Are you sure?

Is it Jesus who sends it in the Father's Name or is it the Father who sends it in Jesus' Name?

"... the Comforter, ... whom the Father will send in My Name, ..."
John 14:26
"... when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, ..."
John 15:26

They both send. But, the Father isn't the Son and the Son isn't the Father, so it is only reasonable to conclude that the Holy Spirit isn't either of them.

Who has the authority to send it? Looks like you've got another problem to figure out.

Not at all. They are both truly God and both have the authority to send.

This is a problem for your position, but doesn't contradict mine in the least.

There is no trinity.

It proves that the Holy Spirit isn't Jesus, so it completely contradicts what you have said so far about your position.

Yet another verse that hurts your case, but supports mine.

Why does Jesus have to leave for the Comforter to come?

Why can't the supposedly completely separate person holy spirit come on down while Jesus is still there?

Joh 7:39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (ESV)

The Holy Spirit continues on the work and life of Christ in the believers.

He is not a separate person.

That is begging the question.

Human limited rules of grammar and logic aren't even relevant in a discussion about the nature of God Almighty. God is not limited in any way, shape or form.

They are if you believe the Bible is inspired by God, but if you don't, then no, the rules of grammar and logic don't apply and the Bible should just be thrown out. However, the rules of grammar and logic most definitely apply since the Bible is inspired by God, and we cannot just ignore those rules and expect to come to a right understanding. You're dismissing verses that completely undermine your position based on poor reasoning in this regard.

Human language and logic are from God himself, but that is for another discussion.

Those are also things that God, in general, does.

Yes, that is part of my point. Thank you for pointing that out.

Like I've said, you have no choice but to flat ignore proof and Truth as it is a clear and present danger to your position.

Look again:
"... ye are ... in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, ... the spirit is life because of righteousness."
Romans 8:9-10

It is Christ Himself that indwells the Spirit-Filled Believer.

Not some third person of the trinity.

Some "clever" editing so that more of the context is ruled out. I'll post it all again:

Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. (ESV)

On what basis are you equating Jesus with the Holy Spirit when you could just as well equate the Holy Spirit with the Father, especially since it actually mentions the latter more than the former? Do you believe they are all one and the same?

Absurdly false.

Who calls people, the Father or the Son? And who must we go through to get to God?

"No man can come to Me except the Father ... draw (call) him ..."
John 6:44
"... no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me."
John 14:6

We must go through the Father to get to the Son, but we must go through the Son to get to the Father.

Yet another problem for you, but not a problem for me at all.

What does this have to do with my statement that the Holy Spirit and the Son are constantly and consistently differentiated throughout the NT?

Absolutely nowhere. Taught nowhere, explained nowhere and contradicted repeatedly throughout the sacred pages of Scripture.

It is absolutely there. Again, that is precisely what it has been believed for so long.

It didn't even become a thing until the Counsel of Nicea in about 300 A.D.

Actually, the formal doctrine itself came about later than that. However, outside of Scripture, the three main foundations of the Trinity can be traced back to the early second century.

After that, there were literally countless Christians tortured and murdered all over the world for about 1500 years for refusing to accept and embrace such abominable heresy.

Which proves what, exactly? Not the truth of the matter.

They tried, and mightily. There were Bibles translated properly into all languages and great men of God who fought valiantly to maintain the Truth of His Word. They were almost all captured and killed in horrible ways for the Holy Testimony.

Please, provide evidence that the Reformers tried to get the Trinity denied as a Christian belief.

The OT proves the trinity is nonsense in countless ways. It refers to God as a He hundreds of times in places where it would be best to refer to a they. A pronoun like He can never refer to three persons, no matter how it is twisted or perverted.

See, now you're just showing that you don't understand the doctrine of the Trinity. There is only one God, that is foundation number one. There was, is, and ever will be only one God. That is something trinitarians affirm and is precisely one of the reasons for the doctrine of the Trinity.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (ESV)

Notice the use of the plural in verse 26 and then the singular in verse 27 to speak of humans being created in the image and likeness of God.

God the Father claims to be, and do, every single thing the trinity claims only Jesus is, or did.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

I can do exactly the same thing and post 50 verses, demanding you address each one of them.

I've only posted a few. But, as I said previously, there is a lot to take into account.

The Bible, in its entirety, contradicts the concept of a trinity. It does so in its complete silence on the matter of God being 3 persons,

And, yet, you haven't given one verse that proves your assertion.

and it does so in its repeated teachings of God being ONE individual person.

You haven't given any one verse to prove this either.

 

[jaybo]

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in demanding evidence while not being able to provide any oneself.


Yes, you have said that but you have to provide support.


Which tells us nothing about whether or not God is triune.


They both send. But, the Father isn't the Son and the Son isn't the Father, so it is only reasonable to conclude that the Holy Spirit isn't either of them.


Not at all. They are both truly God and both have the authority to send.


It proves that the Holy Spirit isn't Jesus, so it completely contradicts what you have said so far about your position.


Joh 7:39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (ESV)

The Holy Spirit continues on the work and life of Christ in the believers.


That is begging the question.


They are if you believe the Bible is inspired by God, but if you don't, then no, the rules of grammar and logic don't apply and the Bible should just be thrown out. However, the rules of grammar and logic most definitely apply since the Bible is inspired by God, and we cannot just ignore those rules and expect to come to a right understanding. You're dismissing verses that completely undermine your position based on poor reasoning in this regard.

Human language and logic are from God himself, but that is for another discussion.


Yes, that is part of my point. Thank you for pointing that out.


Some "clever" editing so that more of the context is ruled out. I'll post it all again:

Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. (ESV)

On what basis are you equating Jesus with the Holy Spirit when you could just as well equate the Holy Spirit with the Father, especially since it actually mentions the latter more than the former? Do you believe they are all one and the same?


What does this have to do with my statement that the Holy Spirit and the Son are constantly and consistently differentiated throughout the NT?


It is absolutely there. Again, that is precisely what it has been believed for so long.


Actually, the formal doctrine itself came about later than that. However, outside of Scripture, the three main foundations of the Trinity can be traced back to the early second century.


Which proves what, exactly? Not the truth of the matter.


Please, provide evidence that the Reformers tried to get the Trinity denied as a Christian belief.


See, now you're just showing that you don't understand the doctrine of the Trinity. There is only one God, that is foundation number one. There was, is, and ever will be only one God. That is something trinitarians affirm and is precisely one of the reasons for the doctrine of the Trinity.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (ESV)

Notice the use of the plural in verse 26 and then the singular in verse 27 to speak of humans being created in the image and likeness of God.


I don't understand what you're saying here.


I've only posted a few. But, as I said previously, there is a lot to take into account.


And, yet, you haven't given one verse that proves your assertion.


You haven't given any one verse to prove this either.

There are people who simply will not believe what Scripture clearly says. There are three in God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. People who can't accept that either can't read Scripture or the devil has blinded them. They want to seem "wise" in their own eyes, but they are spiritually blind.

 

[Edward]

Show me ONE place in the Bible where a three person God is identified without asking me to imagine an extraneous notion into the text.

Does this work for you?

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.../KJV

Don't you read your Bible much? There's plenty of more scriptures too.

 

[Edward]

There is no trinity.

Is that so? How do you reconcile Matthew 28:19 with viewpoint?

 

[Edward]

Does this work for you?

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.../KJV

Don't you read your Bible much? There's plenty of more scriptures too.

Caught you off guard, huh? The scriptures are full of trinity teaching, for those with ears to hear and eye which can see.

I notice that left you speechless. It does spell it right out, doesn't it?

 

[theWind]

Does this work for you?

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.../KJV

Don't you read your Bible much? There's plenty of more scriptures too.

Clearly the Apostles all knew that the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost was .... Jesus Christ.

That's why they all baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ in every single instance of baptism in the Bible.

Did you read those parts? What's your theory as to why they disobeyed a direct order from Jesus?

There is only one Name under heaven whereby we must be saved.
Acts 4:12
If Jesus Christ is our one and only Savior, why does the Father claim to be the only Savior?
Isaiah 43:3
Isaiah 43:11
Isaiah 45:15
Isaiah 45:21

All power and authority in heaven and earth was given to Jesus Christ.
Matt. 28:18

The Father and Holy Spirit have absolutely none?

Lotta holes in the trinitarian doctrine.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Does the Bible really mention a three person God or is this notion imagined into the Bible?

Where does the Bible mention a three person God?

Could be this collective hanging out in heaven

Gen 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

 

[Edward]

Clearly the Apostles all knew that the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost was .... Jesus Christ.

That's why they all baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ in every single instance of baptism in the Bible.

Did you read those parts? What's your theory as to why they disobeyed a direct order from Jesus?

There is only one Name under heaven whereby we must be saved.
Acts 4:12
If Jesus Christ is our one and only Savior, why does the Father claim to be the only Savior?
Isaiah 43:3
Isaiah 43:11
Isaiah 45:15
Isaiah 45:21

All power and authority in heaven and earth was given to Jesus Christ.
Matt. 28:18

The Father and Holy Spirit have absolutely none?

Lotta holes in the trinitarian doctrine.

Clearly how? Because you say so? Please try again. What you are saying clearly contradicts scripture.

We have one savior, Jesus the Christ. Let's take a peek at a scripture in John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.../KJV

So if there is not a trinity of Father Son holy Spirit, and that those are just different names for Jesus like you say...

Why would Jesus say that He goes to His Father, if He is one and the same? Jesus said, I go to my God and to your God. How can Jesus have a God if He is the only God?

Your logic is flawed. There is three of them, and yet they are one. They are all equally God, but there is a Father and we know very well that a Father is God to his son, even on earth. The Father is the boss, but the Holy Spirit and Jesus are direct Family and carry out the Dad's will. Just like your kids. Just like mine.

They are one though. Jesus said I am in the Father, and the Father is in me. So we are to be in Christ and then we follow the Spirit and have the Father in us also. They will make their abode with you. But the point is that the Father-Son-Holy Spirit are one. They merge or something somehow. So we don't know very much at all about the mechanics of the spiritual realm so I can't tell you how that is done, but it is true and there IS a scripture!

Mark 5:1-9
1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.

2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,

3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:

4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.

5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.

6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.../KJV

So what we have there is a story of possession in the Bible and Jesus went to cast him out and asked him his name and it told him My name is Legion, for we are many. How many is a Legion? 2000? Is that right? Oh so spirits can merge together!

We're just clueless on the uh, physics of the spiritual realm. We don't know how that stuff works, all we have is our trust in Jesus for now.
Maybe that's what Jesus meant when He said we must become like little children again? That, now we have to learn how to live like a spiritual being. It took us quite awhile to grow up in the world. The spiritual realm sounds even more complicated, lol.

 

[theWind]

Could be this collective hanging out in heaven

Gen 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

The 'us' there is a misinterpretation/mistranslation or else we wouldn't have this in the very next verse.

"So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them."
Gen. 1:27

If there was any remote possibility that God was plural, we would see a corresponding they here, and many other places throughout Scripture.

We never see that ... anywhere.

 

[theWind]

Clearly how? Because you say so? Please try again. What you are saying clearly contradicts scripture.

We have one savior, Jesus the Christ. Let's take a peek at a scripture in John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.../KJV

So if there is not a trinity of Father Son holy Spirit, and that those are just different names for Jesus like you say...

Why would Jesus say that He goes to His Father, if He is one and the same? Jesus said, I go to my God and to your God. How can Jesus have a God if He is the only God?

Your logic is flawed. There is three of them, and yet they are one. They are all equally God, but there is a Father and we know very well that a Father is God to his son, even on earth. The Father is the boss, but the Holy Spirit and Jesus are direct Family and carry out the Dad's will. Just like your kids. Just like mine.

They are one though. Jesus said I am in the Father, and the Father is in me. So we are to be in Christ and then we follow the Spirit and have the Father in us also. They will make their abode with you. But the point is that the Father-Son-Holy Spirit are one. They merge or something somehow. So we don't know very much at all about the mechanics of the spiritual realm so I can't tell you how that is done, but it is true and there IS a scripture!

Mark 5:1-9
1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.

2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,

3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:

4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.

5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.

6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.../KJV

So what we have there is a story of possession in the Bible and Jesus went to cast him out and asked him his name and it told him My name is Legion, for we are many. How many is a Legion? 2000? Is that right? Oh so spirits can merge together!

We're just clueless on the uh, physics of the spiritual realm. We don't know how that stuff works, all we have is our trust in Jesus for now.
Maybe that's what Jesus meant when He said we must become like little children again? That, now we have to learn how to live like a spiritual being. It took us quite awhile to grow up in the world. The spiritual realm sounds even more complicated, lol.

Actually, no, it's your logic that's flawed as you are placing human limitations on God Almighty. It's the number one tactic of trinitarians to strive to defend their position. Sadly, it quenches their faith in the process as they must bring God down to their level to attempt to support their beliefs about Him which are all fraudulent.

God is not limited like man is. Everything Jesus says about He and the Father is accurate and there is still no trinity.

I made my case very clear as to how they disobeyed Jesus - IF Jesus was actually telling them that He was three persons, which He was clearly not doing.

Would you like to produce a verse that shows baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?

I'd love to see it.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The 'us' there is a misinterpretation/mistranslation or else we wouldn't have this in the very next verse.

"So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them."
Gen. 1:27

If there was any remote possibility that God was plural, we would see a corresponding they here, and many other places throughout Scripture.

We never see that ... anywhere.

So you don't believe Jesus existed at the time man was created ?

 

[theWind]

So you don't believe Jesus existed at the time man was created ?

Yep.

As God Almighty.

Have you ever read John 1:1?

The Word = The Son
God = The Father

"In the beginning was The Son, and The Son was with The Father, and The Son was The Father."
John 1:1

One individual person.

Nowhere in any trinity explanation are we told that any of the three are each other. On the contrary, we are told they are totally separate and different from each other, but all god.

Nonsense.

 

[Consecrated Life]

So you don't believe Jesus existed at the time man was created ?

Yep.

"yep" meaning "yes" you don't believe Jesus existed before Adam ?

 

[Edward]

Actually, no, it's your logic that's flawed as you are placing human limitations on God Almighty. It's the number one tactic of trinitarians to strive to defend their position. Sadly, it quenches their faith in the process as they must bring God down to their level to attempt to support their beliefs about Him which are all fraudulent.

God is not limited like man is. Everything Jesus says about He and the Father is accurate and there is still no trinity.

I made my case very clear as to how they disobeyed Jesus - IF Jesus was actually telling them that He was three persons, which He was clearly not doing.

Would you like to produce a verse that shows baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?

I'd love to see it.

Did I upset you? I'm sorry.

John 14:11
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.../KJV

Defending my position? That's funny! All I am doing is speaking the truth. My position comes straight out of scripture. I can only explain to what I know. I can't make you understand it.

You seem to be lacking in faith. That's happened to me before too. Do you know what cures that? Reading in your Bible.

Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Reading the word builds up your faith and gives you more understanding at the same time.

 

[theWind]

"yep" meaning "yes" you don't believe Jesus existed before Adam ?

As God Almighty.

Have you ever read John 1:1?

The Word = The Son
God = The Father

"In the beginning was The Son, and The Son was with The Father, and The Son was The Father."
John 1:1

One individual person.

Nowhere in any trinity explanation are we told that any of the three are each other. On the contrary, we are told they are totally separate and different from each other, but all god.

Nonsense.

 

[theWind]

Did I upset you? I'm sorry.

You broke my heart.

John 14:11
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.../KJV

Perfect choice.

They are ONE.