Three person God identified in the Bible?

[DivineNames]

This is what happens when people place too much emphasis on the Bible.

Wouldn't you like an infallible Pope ?

 

[Imagican]

I offer that Adam's Son is absolutely right in his assumption that imagination is the only way one could draw the conclusion that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one and the same.

The answer to this question is that 'trinity', which teaches this nonsense, is not of Christian origin but that of ancient religions that predate Christianity. The Romans were already deeply involved with these 'other' religions when Chrisitianity first raised it's ugly head in their perfectly controlled world.

These other ancient religions contained three part gods that were known by the word 'trinity'. When Christianity became an accepted religion in the Roman world, the religious leaders were quick to gain control of it by changing it to suit their needs. One of these changes was to add a 'trinity' to Christianity. There were many that argued that 'trinity' DID NOT exist in Christianity or the Godhead but they were out-voted over and over again by those that insisted upon it.

There are no scriptures in the Bible that denote a three-part, one-person God. There is no such thing. God is God, Jesus is Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. All a part of the same team, but three different members without a doubt.

Anyone that doesn't agree with this should certainly be able to answer a couple of questions:

1 If Jesus were God Himself why would he cry out on the cross, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

2. When asked by Jesus by his followers of His return and the time. He told them that 'only the Father Himself knew the answer to this question'. If Jesus were God wouldn't He have known the answer to this question?

3. Would Satan, who had already been cast out of Heaven for his pride, tempt God again?

4. And why would Christ Himself constantly and continually refer to Himself as the Son of God and to God as His Father?

:-D

 

[Rose of Sharon]

How Many Gods? One.

Unless we get this one question right, nothing else will matter. In a time of interfaithism in which people are being taught that all religions worship the same god, but each worship him by a different name, this becomes the central question. How many Gods are there? Fortunately, the Bible tells us. Deuteronomy 6:4 says,


Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.

Let us look at some of the teachings of the Bible concerning how many Gods there actually are. Deuteronomy 6:4, of course, is the cornerstone of all truth, but let’s go beyond it to see if the rest of the scriptures bear it out.

None Else Beside Him

Deuteronomy 4:35 says it this way:

Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

No God With Him

Deuteronomy 32:39 tells us that there is no God with Him:


See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

No God Before Him or After Him

Furthermore, Isaiah 43:10 tells us:
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

This is very simple. There is one God, there was none before Him, there will not be another God created after Him, there is no God beside Him, and there is none with Him.

None Like Him

As we have already seen, there is no God with Him, there were none before Him, and there will never be any after Him. Also, there is not even any God like Him, as we read in II Samuel 7:22:

Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, either is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.


God bless
Rose of Sharon

 

[Free]

ROS,

I think you have the wrong topic - this isn't about how many God's, it's about the Trinity.

 

[Imagican]

Do we pray TO the Holy Spirit or TO Jesus Christ or do we pray TO God? I am nothing without the teachings of Christ and I submit this question to you: How did our Savior tell us that we should pray?

 

[Adams son]

Do we pray TO the Holy Spirit or TO Jesus Christ or do we pray TO God? I am nothing without the teachings of Christ and I submit this question to you: How did our Savior tell us that we should pray?

I found this site particularly enlightening.

http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospe ... inity.html

 

[Rose of Sharon]

ROS,

I think you have the wrong topic - this isn't about how many God's, it's about the Trinity.

__________

Opps......... sorry. : But, there is no trinity.

 

[Jcharlesscott]

Who does this edify?

I apologize for being a bit taken back here, but do you all remember the "simple" teachings of our saviour?

I have only recently joined this forum and have been utterly amazed at the lack of love and respect shown by its membership. Perhaps too much time is being spent in the deep topics of the Word by those who need to focus primarily on the "milk" of the word and having mastered the ability to rebuke or teach in love return to topics that may require a bit more Christian love to discuss in a respectful manor.

This being said I must also mention that biblical interpretation is both an art and a science. It is a science in that it has specific rules and regulations governing it, but remains an art in that the more you do it the better at it you become.

I believe that there has been a great deal of isogesis going on. Perhaps what is needed is a firm grasp of biblical hermeneutics prior to tackling these weighty issues. I do not mean to imply that someone does not have the intelligence to understand scripture, rather that if you rightly apply the rules of hermeneutics many difficult doctrines become less so.


I apologize sincerely if anyone is offended by this posting.

Peace be with you.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

Re: Who does this edify?

I apologize for being a bit taken back here, but do you all remember the "simple" teachings of our saviour?

I have only recently joined this forum and have been utterly amazed at the lack of love and respect shown by its membership. Perhaps too much time is being spent in the deep topics of the Word by those who need to focus primarily on the "milk" of the word and having mastered the ability to rebuke or teach in love return to topics that may require a bit more Christian love to discuss in a respectful manor.

This being said I must also mention that biblical interpretation is both an art and a science. It is a science in that it has specific rules and regulations governing it, but remains an art in that the more you do it the better at it you become.

I believe that there has been a great deal of isogesis going on. Perhaps what is needed is a firm grasp of biblical hermeneutics prior to tackling these weighty issues. I do not mean to imply that someone does not have the intelligence to understand scripture, rather that if you rightly apply the rules of hermeneutics many difficult doctrines become less so.


I apologize sincerely if anyone is offended by this posting.

Peace be with you.

____________

To 'whom' are you referring to might I ask? All of us? What in particular are you offended at?

 

[Eve777]

Free wrote:
ROS,

I think you have the wrong topic - this isn't about how many God's, it's about the Trinity.


__________

Opps......... sorry. But, there is no trinity.

No opps..necessary Rose...you were right...the conversation is about how many Gods are in the Trinity? Doesn't a triune God, imply three Gods? Did I just fall off the trunip truck? So glad to see you back...I've missed you...

 

[Adams son]

Free wrote:
ROS,

I think you have the wrong topic - this isn't about how many God's, it's about the Trinity.


__________

Opps......... sorry. But, there is no trinity.

No opps..necessary Rose...you were right...the conversation is about how many Gods are in the Trinity? Doesn't a triune God, imply three Gods?

1. the God the Son
2. the God the Father
3. the God the HS

If each of these three "God" words is a WHO then that's three Gods and there is no way around it. (this is where Trins say, "but you just don't understand. You are confusing nature and persons.). Um, no I am not confused about the fallacy contrivance that is pulled off here.

For the Trinitarian to contrive his way out of the matter, all one has to do is contrive a little fallacy of word equivocation. When you have this problem just shift the meaning of the word "God" from a WHO definition to a WHAT definition. Let us make the word "God" a "nature" and all three share this one "nature." There, now we have one "God" where the word "God" is implicitly defined as one divine nature (WHAT), and not three Gods where the word God is instead implicitly defined as identifying who someone is (WHO)

Its so easy to pull off this contrivance that anyone could do it. All you need to do is suggestively and implicitly shift the meaning of the word "God" back and forth from a WHO definition to a WHAT definition wherever and whenever necessary and it will keep people confused enough to perhaps accept the Trinitarian doctrine.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

Free wrote:
ROS,

I think you have the wrong topic - this isn't about how many God's, it's about the Trinity.


__________

Opps......... sorry. But, there is no trinity.

No opps..necessary Rose...you were right...the conversation is about how many Gods are in the Trinity? Doesn't a triune God, imply three Gods? Did I just fall off the trunip truck? So glad to see you back...I've missed you...

____________

Hi Eve,

Hopefully it's nice to be back. :

You bet a truine god implies 'three gods', which there is no such thing.
There is only ONE God, the one who created all things in heaven and in earth and his name is Jesus our Lord.


Without any distinction of persons, God is One and absolutely One. (Deut. 6:4 and Gal. 3:20)

All of the fullness of the Godhead incarnate, is Jesus Christ. (John 20:28; Col. 2:9)

But YOU know this .

God bless
Rose of Sharon

 

[Free]

I'm curious as to why Adams son uses this argument:

"You statement that nowhere in Scripture is the Holy Spirit referred to as the Father does not really represent the facts cj. It is quite clear that the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father."

(found here: http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=10714&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=360)

when he uses the opposite against the Trinity:

"As it is you still have not presented a single verse which mentions a three person God. Don't you find that a bit strange that God is mentioned thousands of times in the Bible but not once is there a verse which identifies this alleged three person God ?"

In other words, he believes the Holy Spirit is God the Father despite no single verse that states that, yet he wants a verse that "mentions a three person God" to prove the Trinity.


RoS,

You bet a truine god implies 'three gods',

Actually, no. The very meaning of the word "triune" is "three in one" or "a unity of three members of a whole". Not only that, your statement is blatantly false and misleading, showing that you don't understand the doctrine of the Trinity.

Without any distinction of persons, God is One and absolutely One. (Deut. 6:4 and Gal. 3:20)

God is not said to be absolutely one in either verse. In fact, the words used for 'one' in both verses, 'echad and eis, mean simply "one". These both can be used as a compound one, which eis is in Gla. 3:28. If you think that Gal. 3:20 is speaking of an absolute one, then you would be advocating some form of pantheism in Gal. 3:28.

 

[Eve777]

God is not said to be absolutely one in either verse

How about here?

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.

Or here?

Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:


Act 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou [art] God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

IF you beleive that God is the Father,,,,....how can the Father be a seperate person? How can the Holy Spirit be a seperate person....if it is the spirit of Christ and also of God?....the selfsame spirit......


Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[nuhmmie]

as a species we require a lifetime of pacifiers don't we?

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.



two down, one to go

 

[Free]

Eve,

How about here?

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

This is the quote of Deut. 6:4, the Shema.

Or here?

Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

This one, like the others given so far, are simply statements of monotheism, nothing more.

IF you beleive that God is the Father,,,,....how can the Father be a seperate person? How can the Holy Spirit be a seperate person....if it is the spirit of Christ and also of God?....the selfsame spirit......

I don't believe that God is the Father, I believe that the Father is God. I don't know how the Father can be a separate person, but the whole of the NT draws the distinction between the Father, the Son (as nuhmmie points out with John 1:1), and the Holy Spirit. This is consistent throughout the entire NT.

None of the verses offered state that there is only one person in the Godhead.


And welcome to the forums nuhmmie.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

I'm curious as to why Adams son uses this argument:

"You statement that nowhere in Scripture is the Holy Spirit referred to as the Father does not really represent the facts cj. It is quite clear that the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father."

(found here: http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=10714&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=360)

when he uses the opposite against the Trinity:

"As it is you still have not presented a single verse which mentions a three person God. Don't you find that a bit strange that God is mentioned thousands of times in the Bible but not once is there a verse which identifies this alleged three person God ?"

In other words, he believes the Holy Spirit is God the Father despite no single verse that states that, yet he wants a verse that "mentions a three person God" to prove the Trinity.


RoS,

You bet a truine god implies 'three gods',

_________________________


Actually, no. The very meaning of the word "triune" is "three in one" or "a unity of three members of a whole". Not only that, your statement is blatantly false and misleading, showing that you don't understand the doctrine of the Trinity.

[quote:cd712]Without any distinction of persons, God is One and absolutely One. (Deut. 6:4 and Gal. 3:20)

God is not said to be absolutely one in either verse. In fact, the words used for 'one' in both verses, 'echad and eis, mean simply "one". These both can be used as a compound one, which eis is in Gla. 3:28. If you think that Gal. 3:20 is speaking of an absolute one, then you would be advocating some form of pantheism in Gal. 3:28.[/quote:cd712]


__________________

Hi Free,
Some comments here.

The very meaning of the word "triune" is "three in one"

Nowhere in the word does it say, ' three in one'. The scripture says,'Three are one'. Big difference here. See 1 John;

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

verse 7 says there are 'three' that bear record in heaven. It says ' bear record', not three individuals that bear record'.

Of course we can see that the three are the father, the word, ( which is the fathers own word, and not 'another') and the Holyghost. ( The Holyghost IS Gods spirit , so therefore that would mean that the Holyghost IS God , IS the father HIMSELF because God the father is a spirit . (John 4:24; God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. )

verse 8; The three that bear witness in earth are the spirit ( the spirit of God IN Christ Jesus , the man, the water and the blood, which are all speaking of the MAN JESUS. Not three 'separates' here.

The Trinitarians use passages such as this to further the false lie of the trinity. It is a much controversial passage as I'm sure you well know. They also use this Granville Sharp rule to try and make a trinity out of oneness.

There are many Trinitarian scholars who freely admit that the Greek text from which the KJV is translated was adjusted in this verse to support the Trinity.
The King James Version ( sadly) has words that support the Trinity that most modern versions do not have. The addition is not found in any Greek manuscript or NT translation prior to the 16th century.â€Â

God is not said to be absolutely one in either verse. In fact, the words used for 'one' in both verses, 'echad and eis, mean simply "one". These both can be used as a compound one, which eis is in Gla. 3:28. If you think that Gal. 3:20 is speaking of an absolute one, then you would be advocating some form of pantheism in Gal. 3:28.

[/quote]

Then if you really beleive that this is making a distinction of 'three' and not one, making God into three 'individual' divine beings, then you would call God a liar when he clearly says in his ten commandments ;
Exodus 20 :
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

This to me is quite plain that God has said there are to be NO other gods beside him. To separate God from his own spirit ( the Holyghost) and his own vessel ( Jesus) that HE came to earth HIMSELF in to save us is calling him a liar.
For he is ALL of these and yet he is ONE spirit manifested into whatever he chooses.
That makes MUCH more sense to me then to 'divide' God up into three parts. You would make him a three headed spirit and that would be considered pantheism .
How could you accuse me of the belief of pantheism when I wish to prove that God is ONE and not three? Sounds slightly redundant.

The false gods/goddess are all pantheism , they are ALL in groups of either three or more of each and you would compare our almighty God with pantheism yourself.

God has said that he is ONE numerous times. Read the book of Isaiah.
There are no hidden meanings there that look like ' three' to me.

There is only ONE divine God of this world and that is God almighty. He does not separate HIMSELF into three divinites. He only 'manifests 'HIMSELF because he can, and for good reason, he's Almighty God.

God bless
Rose of Sharon

 

[Free]

RoS,

:
The very meaning of the word "triune" is "three in one"

Nowhere in the word does it say, ' three in one'. The scripture says,'Three are one'. Big difference here. See 1 John;

Please, RoS, do yourself a favor and look up 'triune' in a dictionary - "tri" means 3, and "unus" means 1.

My whole point was that triune does not imply three gods, which is what you said it implied. Trinitarianism is monotheistic, not polytheistic.

It is quite apparent from the rest of your post that you have very little understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

RoS,

:
The very meaning of the word "triune" is "three in one"

Nowhere in the word does it say, ' three in one'. The scripture says,'Three are one'. Big difference here. See 1 John;

Please, RoS, do yourself a favor and look up 'triune' in a dictionary - "tri" means 3, and "unus" means 1.

My whole point was that triune does not imply three gods, which is what you said it implied. Trinitarianism is monotheistic, not polytheistic.

It is quite apparent from the rest of your post that you have very little understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity.

_______________
I understand the trinity alright. I understand that you beleive that there is One God , but that he is divided between three distinctions.
That seems to be your only arguement that you throw towards me is that I don't understand it. Could it be that YOU do not understand the Oneness of God?
Of course the dictionary says that truine means 3, duh. But the word of God clearly says nothing about a truine God. Even the Jews, Moses, Jacob, Issac, King David say absolutely NOTHING about a truine God. Trinity was made up by a false doctrine of usupers in about the 3rd century, only brought on by the beleif that Jesus was incarnated as a 'second' divine ' person in the Godhead AND with nowhere in the word to prove it.
The word says nowhere that Jesus Christ is a second divine demi-God NEXT to God almighty. But the trinitarian is saying Jesus is the second person in the Godhead . Col. 2:9 says much differnet.

History ( and biblical readings) says Oneness was the only significant belief in the early second century with regard to the Godhead. Even when forms of binitarianism (Both Binitarianism and Trinitarianism are heretical and surely need addressed) and trinitarianism began to develop they did not gain dominance until the latter part of the third century. During this time there were many notable Oneness leaders and teachers who opposed this shift in doctrine.

God bless

Rose

 

[nuhmmie]

a warm welcom much appreciated

And welcome to the forums nuhmmie.

why, thank you Free! Pleased to be here and very nice to meet you.