Timing of The Rapture

[Silversmok3]

I've been searching for an answer to this ,and have gotten compelling info on both sides.

The popular doctrine is that The Rapture is supposed to happen before the tribulation,which means me and my saved brothers and sisters today skip the 7 nasty years to follow.

But,I recently encountered a position that frames the Rapture occuring at the midway of the Tribulation,at the point where the 144,000 are sealed with the mark of God.

Any solid ideas,guys and gals?

 

[samuel]

Silversmok3, that is a question that has no real answer. There are about four popular positions, on the rapture. Pre-trib, Mid-trib, Pre-wrath, and Post-trib. Each of which can pull versus, to defend their position. I have always been one of the pre-wrath, or the time of 144,000 sealed folks. But I recently ran into a verse that made me think, the possibility of pre-trib could be correct. I don’t remember just where that was, I should have written it down, now I will have to find it again, since you have raised the question.

But of course of the timing, knows no man. Our Lord just said watch, and be prepared, leaving his coming to be at anytime. He also stated he would return, at a time we would think not. So the possibility, is that none of the four aforementioned positions; are correct.

More than this, I will not add. I have been condemned of wrangling with words, and further more think we should not, in fact the scripture also suggests this.

 

[Vic C.]

I'm with Samuel on this. Although I don't necessarily agree with a future 70th. week, I lean closest to PreWrath. Pre wrath, when looked at from a future 70th. week perspective, places the rapture later in the second half of the "week".

The Prewrath position makes the most sense to me, considering Satan's persecution and God's wrath are two separate events, starting at midpoint. Most future positions agree that a good portion of the first half of the week is not a period of turmoil.

Samuel, I'd like to see this verse you speak of. I cling to 1 Thessalonians 5:9

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[samuel]

Vic, I have looked for it some, but so far have failed to find it. I was reading from four, or five new testament books yesterday; so the possibilities are a little vast. It was not a really definitive statement, just one that gave rise to the thought at the time. As far as that goes, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, is also one of my staple verses. Along with many others, that point to a pre-wrath Rapture.
I once had a book called The Rapture Opinion, it had all the verses that supported the four main, and popular rapture opinions. After I finished reading it, like Paul said “those that seemed to be somewhatâ€Â, did not for one second sway my opinion. I still hold firmly to a pre-wrath, or mid-trib opinion, by which ever you may call it.

But; I will keep searching for that verse.

 

[Joshleet]

If anyone has an "out in Left field" perspective, its me. I believe satan is going to feed on Mankinds most base human nature. Mankind is reactionary to the enviroment around Him. Extreme events makes most, make hasty decisions, without carefully thinking through what exactly is actually occuring.

• Satan is an opportunist. His Man of Sin wil come on the world stage, when most will be expecting the return of the REAL MESSIAH. I see a series of "birthpains", wars and rumors of wars, that will occur PRIOR to his reign. (but the end is not yet, Just as Jesus warned). These Birthpains will climax with the Ezekiel 38 Battle in ISrael, and will be accepted as the final great battle prophesied to occur. This event, along with others that also occur at the climax of this battle, will leave little doubt in most minds, that truly this must be the returned Messiah. The World will swear allegience with this "messiah" thinking He truly IS the Messiah!! At the end of His 42 month reign, the Lord comes back to remove his ambassadors, and prepares the world to face the vials of the wrath of God.

• The Lord stated that He will come at a time that "ye think not", the hour of temptation, when many will be eating and drinking Marrying and given in Marriage. There will be a false Marriage supper to the wrong bridegroom. many will truly believe they have entered into the Lord's 1000 year reign. That day shall NOT come, except there come a falling away first, and the REAL identity of this one claiming to be the returned Messiah, is made known to all. it will be the "harvest" of the true church at the end of His 42 moonth reign, that will reveal to the world (and the decieved church) the terrible mistake they have made

 

[Joshleet]

If anyone has any doubts about the scenario I just revealed in the previous post, Just ask the People in the sixth seal of Revelation, who hide from the "face of him that sitteth on the throne", and then proclaim, "for the great day of his wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand???

• What else occurs in the sixth seal? There is a great earthquake, and the moon is turned blood red. Well, where do we see in prophecy, a great eathquake, and the Lord revealing Himself to the World, but isn't returning? It's the climax of the Ezekiel 38 war. The problem is, Joel 2:30 clearly states that the blood red moon event clearly occurs BEFORE the great and terrible day of the Lord comes. Why then, are those who hide from God, proclaiming it IS the Day of the Lord? Simple......

  II Thess 2:11 "and for this cause, God shall send them "strong delusion"

  /list] These yahoo's who hide from God, and proclaim it is the day of the Lord, Mustn't have a very close relationship with Him, DO they? WHy are they Hiding? Why are they proclaiming it is the Day of the Lord? How do they know, if they are Hiding from God? They are allowing the events that are occuring around them dictate the conclusion they are drawing!! And what comes after the events of the sixth seal? The first four trumpets that will be accepted as the vials of the wrath of God, followed by Satan being cast out of Heaven (fifth trumpet), with His hordes of Fallen angels behind Him (sixth trumpet). This is nothing other than a duplication of Christ returning with His bride. And what is described after this in Revelation? The 42 month reign of the almost Christ!! Christian beware!!! Its a duplication!!!

 

[Momentum]

I will just give My opinion. We will not be raptured as in the taken out of this world, we will be spared and well have been spared (except for the 1260 of fellow believers being massacred by Papal Rome) from the tribulations.


the 7 year thing is a lie, there is not mention of a 7 year tribulation period in the scriptures.
the 7 seals and the 7 trumpets and most of the vials are already done with, as History helps show us this. Remember the world John as prophesying about was not our world today, but the world of his time the Roman Empire world, so Europe and the middle east and north of Africa.

 

[Adstar]

Hi all

I am a post-trib rapture believer. People tend to get overly passionate about their rapture timing beliefs which is sad because rapture timing should not be seen as a central doctrine of our faith. It is a disputable matter. We should not be straining at a gnat.


The Day of the Lord is the Day of the Messiah's Second Coming Jesus describes what will happen on that day. I will bold the words i wish you to take close note of.

Matthew 24
27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So After the tribulation Jesus will return and gather the elect to Him.

There is another Rapture verse spoken of by Jesus that links the Day of the Lord to the Rapture.

Luke 17
29but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. 31" In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32Remember Lot's wife. 33Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left."

When will the Son of Man (Messiah Jesus) be revealed? At His second coming the Day of the Lord. Who will take the sleeping man and the woman grinding and the man working in the field? The angels sent out in Matthew 24 verse 21

It is also nice to note that Jesus revealed that this will be a world wide event because at the time of His return it will be day on one half of the world "In that day" and it will be night on the other half of the world "in that night"

Also this will be an event that will take place in a twinkling of an eye Paul reveals the rapture and its timing at the Last trumpet this scripture is probably the best rapture supporting scripture in the bible:


1 Corrinthians15:
49And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

Here Paul is saying that as we inhabit earthly bodies derived from dust so shall we inhabit new bodies changed and not made of dust. Paul goes on to explain why:


50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

So the bodies that we inhabit cannot enter the Kingdom of God and also "corruption" dead bodies must also be changed also. Then Paul reveals a mystery:


51Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

So Paul is saying that "we shall not all sleep" now I hope everyone can agree that he is talking about physical death here? Paul is saying not everyone will experience physical death. He goes on to say that "we shall all be changed" both the dead and the living "in a moment", now at this point it could be argued that both the dead and the living could be changed in a moment in time, but at different times. That is to say the moment is only referring to the time it takes to change, not at the same moment. But we read on and Paul states the moment will be. "in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet." So not only shall both the living and the dead be changed to inherit the Kingdom of God But they will both change at the same moment, at the last trumpet. As He goes on to say "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Paul goes on to explain it in more detail:


53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory.

So here again we see Paul referring to the two states of being that the saints will be in at the time of the 1st Resurrection/Rapture "So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality," Dead saints and living saints caught up together in a twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet.

So from what we have read the first resurrection and the rapture (although different experiences for them that take part) will happen at the same instant in time at the last trumpet.

So now we go on to the next scripture:


Revelation10
7but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.

Now the sounding of the seventh Angel is the last of a series of seven trumpets in revelation. Note that the scripture says the "Mystery of God would be finished" now the coming of the Messiah has been described by scripture at a coming in the sky (a darkened sky) and all people will see Him. Now after this event there will be on ifs or buts about the Mystery of God because all will see that God is and who He is. Everyone will know from that moment on, there will be no Mystery left. As for the darkening of the sky this is described as happening beforehand on the sounding of the forth trumpet:


Revelation 8
12 Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.


Now This brings up the belief in two resurrections. The resurrection of the saints that happens at the second coming and the resurrection of the rest of mankind at the end of the 1000 years for the great final Judgement. The Book of Revelation chapter 20 clearly states that their will be two distinct resurrections one at the return of the Messiah Jesus and another 1000 years later,


Revelation 20
The Saints Reign with Christ 1000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

satanic Rebellion Crushed
(1) 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[2] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[3] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[ephesus32]

I have always been taught that Rapture would be before the Tribulation. I didn't even realize there was a dispute about this. :gah

 

[Vic C.]

I have always been taught that Rapture would be before the Tribulation. I didn't even realize there was a dispute about this. :gah

Hi there,

It is a branch of theology that is worth studying. It opens the "doors" to passages in scripture that you may have not ever given a second thought. We all have reasons for believing what we believe and most all end times beliefs have some merit to them. Don't be dismayed if you are led to believe something contrary to what you've been taught. No one end times belief system is 100% Biblically sound.

Search the Scriptures.

 

[jtb]

According to my reading the rapture/2nd coming is after the sixth seal which is post-trib and pre-wrath.

Matthew 24:29-31
&
Revelation 6:12-17