Tithing - The Truth Please

[BeforeThereWas]

It can be difficult trying to explain why one does not attend organized religion to those who routinely hand over the primary portion of their giving to organized religion, most of which abuses that giving rather than using it to help others by meeting their needs.

Most attenders and supporters of organized religion don't seem to realize that they are giving to something from which they reap direct benefit. If I were to do that same thing for any other organization, such as a country club that has, for example, a few tokens of charitable outreach, and maybe a few token evangelistic expenditures, I would be looked down upon by most, and rightfully so. Strangely, though, attendees of organized religion somehow wash their hands clean of the same sin just because they are giving to something with the label "church" slapped onto its name.

I could take my local country club and slap the term "church" in its name, and just about have the same thing...as long as I hire a professional clergy class of people to run it, and pattern its operations in conformity to the tradition of churchianity. So, would I then be justified in handing over the primary portion of my giving to such a thing? Not at all, but it all hinges upon how it is viewed, how much sparkle and glitter it has, and the quality of suits the ushers wear, therefore aligning themselves closer to being Levites.

To put the question,"What's wrong with going to church"? into sharper focus and contrast, it should be asked, "What's right with 'going to church?'" We have the freedom to go almost anywhere. The difference is in what we do at any given location to which we travel. Religious exercise is just that.....religious. Anyone can go through those motions. It's easy. Getting down into the filth and mire of the trenches is a whole different matter, however. Entering into a place where relationship is real, well, that sometimes exacts a cost too great for those who prefer to fade into the woodwork and let the professional clergy class do their work for them.

This is by no means an exhastive overview, and it certainly does no justice for those organizations that truly are busying themselves about the work of the Lord, but they are few and far betweenm, and an increasing rarity.

As you have probably noticed, the blitz and glitz of organized religion no longer holds sway over my viewpoint. I am no longer blinded by such shallow visions. Heaven is so much more than what most of organized reliiogn could ever hope to represent. Heaven is the smile of a poor child who is given food and shoes who had almost nothing before. Heaven is relfected in the tears of grartitude rolling down the cheecks of a poor, single mother's face who is relieved of the burden of her bills, even if for just a few months, and who is given food to fill the shelves of her small kitchen.

What's wrong with going to "church". Well, as the old saying goes, "There's no right and positive answer to the wrong question."

BTW

 

[joyinhim]

Hi, I did not read the thread but Jesus wants us to give at least 10% of our income, Matt 23:23. In this country most of us should be able to give much more than 10%. (I don't have home church yet but I have been supporting percecuted Christians over seas with Voice of the Martyrs.)

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Hi, I did not read the thread but Jesus wants us to give at least 10% of our income, Matt 23:23. In this country most of us should be able to give much more than 10%. (I don't have home church yet but I have been supporting percecuted Christians over seas with Voice of the Martyrs.)

I thought Jesus was talking to a pharasee, who was still under the Mosaic Law when Jesus talked to him about the tithe in that verse.

Maybe you should read it again, because I think you overlooked who Jesus was talking to, and the timeframe of that conversation.

On top of that:

I heard David Jeremiah some months ago preach on the assumption that, yes, giving is additionally for the purpose of getting something back. He had no qualms with admitting that up front. "Give To Get," was the pathetic title of his sermon, and his motto. He was quite bold in his pronouncements that we indeed give in order to receive back from God, as if giving were some magical formula for getting something back that we want, or need; never mind simple faith that does not blindly give where it will more than likely be abused.

While listening to that nonsense on the radio, I got the distinct impression that, deep down, he knew his message was nothing more than just another novel ploy to wring just a little more out of people for the benefit of organized religion.

It's knowledgable people like him who don't take certain areas of God's word seriously enough, where doing with the primary portion of believer's giving is concerned. He seems to see man-made organizations as a part of God's Kingdom. This traditional practice of trying to build institutionalism upon the foundation of God's word, His Kingdom, and upon the eternal concept of the Church, is so vastly incomprehensible, it hardly merits mention. Institutionalism will perish with this world. It doesn't even come close to eternity, much less meeting real needs. It mostly fails to grasp even the simplest, outermost regions of true fellowship, and it's going to become better equipped by having more money?

How puny. How so very small. I have no problem with a group of people banding together and playing "church" (whatever that is), but when they attempt to attach more rank to organized religion's collar than it is worthy of carrying, well, I will do what most others dare not do, which is to blow the whistle so that people will wake up and finally see that the emperor is wearing NO cloths.

BTW

 

[joyinhim]

Hi, I did not read the thread but Jesus wants us to give at least 10% of our income, Matt 23:23. In this country most of us should be able to give much more than 10%. (I don't have home church yet but I have been supporting percecuted Christians over seas with Voice of the Martyrs.)

I thought Jesus was talking to a pharasee, who was still under the Mosaic Law when Jesus talked to him about the tithe in that verse.

Maybe you should read it again, because I think you overlooked who Jesus was talking to, and the timeframe of that conversation.

On top of that:

I heard David Jeremiah some months ago preach on the assumption that, yes, giving is additionally for the purpose of getting something back. He had no qualms with admitting that up front. "Give To Get," was the pathetic title of his sermon, and his motto. He was quite bold in his pronouncements that we indeed give in order to receive back from God, as if giving were some magical formula for getting something back that we want, or need; never mind simple faith that does not blindly give where it will more than likely be abused.

While listening to that nonsense on the radio, I got the distinct impression that, deep down, he knew his message was nothing more than just another novel ploy to wring just a little more out of people for the benefit of organized religion.

It's knowledgable people like him who don't take certain areas of God's word seriously enough, where doing with the primary portion of believer's giving is concerned. He seems to see man-made organizations as a part of God's Kingdom. This traditional practice of trying to build institutionalism upon the foundation of God's word, His Kingdom, and upon the eternal concept of the Church, is so vastly incomprehensible, it hardly merits mention. Institutionalism will perish with this world. It doesn't even come close to eternity, much less meeting real needs. It mostly fails to grasp even the simplest, outermost regions of true fellowship, and it's going to become better equipped by having more money?

How puny. How so very small. I have no problem with a group of people banding together and playing "church" (whatever that is), but when they attempt to attach more rank to organized religion's collar than it is worthy of carrying, well, I will do what most others dare not do, which is to blow the whistle so that people will wake up and finally see that the emperor is wearing NO cloths.

BTW

hi before, No I did not over looked. I suggest that you re-read. Jesus wants us to give much more than 10%.

Do you know that many persecuted Christians all over the world reaching out to their people? Do you the conditions of those christians in third world countries, very poverty stricken? If we are true Christians we will not abondon them. we are living in such sleepy country that we don't even look around to see what is going on all around the world in general.

Jesus wants us to carry the burden of those who are struggling for the Lord.

 

[Ajax 777]

Yes, I can tell you that about 10 years ago or so, God surely did honor my tithing just as His Word states.

He loved a firstfruits kind of offering, and he wanted me to be a glad giver.

Nowadays....well, I just can't tell as of yet.

 

[joyinhim]

Yes, I can tell you that about 10 years ago or so, God surely did honor my tithing just as His Word states.

He loved a firstfruits kind of offering, and he wanted me to be a glad giver.

Nowadays....well, I just can't tell as of yet.

Oh come on, tell us. :angel:

 

[Ajax 777]

Well....nowadays, I'm struggling with too many issues to really give it my undivided attention like I once did, but I am certain that I intend to tithe faithfully once again, after all the dust settles and the smoke clears. :-?

But I, for one, am here to tell you this much: TITHING WORKED when God told me to do it. I loved being able to do it, too. It put monetary concerns out of my mind and heart -- to a large extent.

 

[joyinhim]

Well....nowadays, I'm struggling with too many issues to really give it my undivided attention like I once did, but I am certain that I intend to tithe faithfully once again, after all the dust settles and the smoke clears. :-?

But I, for one, am here to tell you this much: TITHING WORKED when God told me to do it. I loved being able to do it, too. It put monetary concerns out of my mind and heart -- to a large extent.

May God bless you ajax!

As a wealthy Christians we should give at least 10% since we have so many struggling Christians overseas. Most of should be able to give much much more. We are not meeting those in need. :

"I was in prison and you did not visit".....We have so many persecuted Christians.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Do you know that many persecuted Christians all over the world reaching out to their people? Do you the conditions of those christians in third world countries, very poverty stricken? If we are true Christians we will not abondon them. we are living in such sleepy country that we don't even look around to see what is going on all around the world in general.

Jesus wants us to carry the burden of those who are struggling for the Lord.

What does that have to do with people handing over the primary portion of their giving to organized religion for its own use? That doesn't help our brothers and sisters in those other countries either.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

But I, for one, am here to tell you this much: TITHING WORKED when God told me to do it. I loved being able to do it, too. It put monetary concerns out of my mind and heart -- to a large extent.

Sorry, but the Bible does not teach individual magic formulas for being blessed. The word of God makes it clear that giving to meet needs is first and foremost in God's priorities in our giving. Handing it over to organized religion for its own expenditures and expansion is no giving to God. The word of God exemplifies meetings needs FIRST, and THEN giving elsewhere of your choosing SECONDARILY. Emotional testimonies will never alter the truths of God's word.

BTW

 

[Solo]

5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. 8 It shall be health F9 to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones. 9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: 10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine. 11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: 12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth. Proverbs 3:7-12

 

[joyinhim]

Do you know that many persecuted Christians all over the world reaching out to their people? Do you the conditions of those christians in third world countries, very poverty stricken? If we are true Christians we will not abondon them. we are living in such sleepy country that we don't even look around to see what is going on all around the world in general.

Jesus wants us to carry the burden of those who are struggling for the Lord.

What does that have to do with people handing over the primary portion of their giving to organized religion for its own use? That doesn't help our brothers and sisters in those other countries either.

BTW

Why do you attend the church that does not help much other Chrisitans in need? We have responsibility to check how our church is operatiing.

 

[Ajax 777]

.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Oh my! Um ...time out for a cold shower perhaps ...? :smt103

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Oh my!

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Why do you attend the church that does not help much other Chrisitans in need? We have responsibility to check how our church is operatiing.

Well, actually I don't attend a man-made institution. I don't need one. Where two or three are gathered in Christ's name, He is in their midst. I can help meet the needs of others without organized religion being in the middle.

BTW

 

[joyinhim]

Why do you attend the church that does not help much other Chrisitans in need? We have responsibility to check how our church is operatiing.

Well, actually I don't attend a man-made institution. I don't need one. Where two or three are gathered in Christ's name, He is in their midst. I can help meet the needs of others without organized religion being in the middle.

BTW

Actually I haven't been attending the organized church because I thought they are not budgetting enough for the needy Christians.

It's better not to attend church if they are not truly serving God. We can serve God without attending organized church IMHO.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

...Excuse me?
Don't you tell me what I just posted was a "magic formula", you ***** *******!!! Who the HELL are you to speak your putrid doubt of what I KNOW God has done for me in my life, having been the one who LIVED IT?!

Wow. Are you Southern Baptist?

In answer to your.....response, I will say that there is an acid test for any and all experiences, blessings, etc., we may assume to have come from God. If our experience does not line up with the written word of God, then it obviously was not in accordance with the Bible. If giving to organized religion that used any portion of the primary portion of your giving for anything OTHER than the meeting of needs (except for the offerings), then it was abused, pure and simple. Continuing to give to something that abuses one's giving after having become aware of such abuse places the burden of responsibility for the abuses equally upon the shoulders of the giver, right along with the perpetrator.

Fortunately for me, I see such misled haughty little braggarts like yourself get their just deserts ALL THE TIME.

This is quite an assumption on your part, don't you think?

You don't get to step on MY relationship with my Father, you doorway to infidelity.

A god of your own making cannot save you in the end..... So, who is this "father" of yours, who seems to be pretty well indicated by your abusive tone and language.

How DARE you presume your goatlike posture is going to defeat my Lord's true purpose!

Who is your lord? The God described in the Bible would never condone your response to me, so who is your god?

May you and your trash-talking lies go to Hell, for deliberately calling my Father in Heaven a liar and using your feeble understanding of a much deeper Word than you perceive as just cause for inciting rebellion!!

Well, you do appear to be quite rebellious when confronted with the word of God, and the truths therein. :-D

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Oh my! Um ...time out for a cold shower perhaps ...? :smt103

I'm not offended. He's just showing his true colors. I hope that he may come to know the TRUE Lord described within the pages of the Bible.

Christ Jesus is come in the flesh.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Actually I haven't been attending the organized church because I thought they are not budgetting enough for the needy Christians.

It's better not to attend church if they are not truly serving God. We can serve God without attending organized church IMHO.

Very true.

Even if I found one that was handing over half the primary portion of its people's giving, it would not be enough. The primary portion was always reserved for meeting needs, not for what organized religion does with it today.

BTW