Tithing - The Truth Please

[BeforeThereWas]

You know, there are many people out there just like David Jeremiah who teach that we all should be tithing because it allegedly predates the Law. What he and all those who teach this falsehood seem to miss is that not even Israel mimicked Abraham's or Jacob's tithe, and yet these people think they can intellectually and/or emotionally foist upon others the idea that we should all be following a principle that God never required of His people in ancient times? This smacks of a form of legalism not tied to the Law, but to contrived expectations.

BTW

 

[joyinhim]

You know, there are many people out there just like David Jeremiah who teach that we all should be tithing because it allegedly predates the Law. What he and all those who teach this falsehood seem to miss is that not even Israel mimicked Abraham's or Jacob's tithe, and yet these people think they can intellectually and/or emotionally foist upon others the idea that we should all be following a principle that God never required of His people in ancient times? This smacks of a form of legalism not tied to the Law, but to contrived expectations.

BTW

Before, Jesus expects us to help each other. You are right in saying we should not be legalistic. But if we are wealthy we should be giving much more than 10%.

Jesus is telling us to "make disciples of all nations." Without the money we cannot do it.

The problem is that many pastors are not doing their job to train or teaching their people to be obedient to the Lord.

It seems that most pastors are taking the job as just another occupation to make a living. So money is not being used as it should be.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Before, Jesus expects us to help each other. You are right in saying we should not be legalistic. But if we are wealthy we should be giving much more than 10%.

Yes.

Jesus is telling us to "make disciples of all nations." Without the money we cannot do it.

This is true, but only in relation to those things that are built upon money. Radio, television, billboards, organized religion, all those things are built upon money. The Gospel is living, therefore not built upon the foundation of money. Money can be a noce tool, but even the Church lives and breathes apart from the necessity of money.

The problem is that many pastors are not doing their job to train or teaching their people to be obedient to the Lord.

That's not what they're hired to do. They are hired to give sermons and visit the sick and elderly, and ten thousand other things. The people mostly have no desire to rise to spiritual maturity, that's why they hired that dude to be that for them.

It seems that most pastors are taking the job as just another occupation to make a living.

Isn't it? Isn't that the end of what it means to be the top dog within an institution? Just because someone makes it into a leadership position within organized religion doesn't mean they're a leader of biblical calibre.

So money is not being used as it should be.

Oh, I agree. When they divert the primary portion of believer's giving to the real estate, the building, and all its associated expenditures and expansion projects, they are indeed robbing the poor. TRUE leaders of biblical calibre do no such thing with that which belongs to the Lord for the needy toward whom He has set His heart.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

The immature only see Jesus dying on the cross for them, but the mature see themselves dying with Him.

The immature are only concerned about themselves and their own burdens; the mature are concerned about bearing the burdens of others.

The immature try to please God out of necessity; the mature out of love and gratitude.

The immature only see 'Christ and Him crucified;' the mature 'I am crucified with Christ.'

The immature ask 'what is permissible;' the mature ask 'what is commendable.'

The immature see only the half-grace of 'undeserved pardon for sins;' the mature see the other half of grace in its chastening, purifying function.

The immature believe in primarily supporting dead things, such as their petty religious institutions; the mature see to the needs of their brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus first and foremost, and the poor in their communities, that the Father may be praised and glorified by all.

The immature attach spiritual value and meaning to the meaninglessness of orgainzed religion and its handing out only milk on a perpetual basis, but with no meat; the mature strive to help others to rise to the perfection of maturity having been cricified WITH Christ.

The immature sit all their lives in the milk (pews), ever listening to the stories about that narrow way that few ever find and traverse; the mature rise up from the milk (pews), discover that narrow path and walk its length to the ultimate reward, which is Christ Jesus.

 

[Henry]

The truth of tithing is that it is big lie to get money for things which are not of God....

The tithe was to tend to the care of the temple and its workers and also for the care of widows and orphans (remember the NT teaching that true religon is the caring of widows and orphans).

The temple was a place of sacrafice to God on behalf of the people for their sins, though God said sacrafices of goats and so on he did not want. Never the less, the role of the temple was as such.

When Jesus died for us, he was the FINAL AND LAST sacrafice, there there is no need for another and he sit in the true holy of holys as our high preist for ever.

So the need for the earthly temple is VOID as the book of hebrews so greatly details.

Today the tithe is said to be the care of the "church building" and it's pastor and perhaps some other staff members.

Wellllllllll first of all there was no such thing as a church building in the NT not in practice and not in idea, and there was also no church pastor as we know him.

We are told that tihe is to be paid to God through the church and that is the place we go to on Sunday or what ever day.

Lies ! The tithe is VOID, the church building is not biblical, paid clergy is pagan, and to give to GOD is do as Jesus said in Matt 25. "unto these MY BRETHREN"

Give to God by giving and providing for each other.

Oh, and when some man says that you must pay 10% to get blessed, he forgets that is not the tithe, it was 20% plus and most of it went to widows and orphans, not to buildings and salaries and all that other pagan junk.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Good post.

What was so sad about one particular individual earlier in this thread were his attempts at spiritualizing the legalism of tithing by applying cryptic terminology and verse applications without any explanation as to how those verses had anything to do with what was being talked about.

BTW

 

[Julian Pyke]

Let me make it simple for you. God said give ten percent of what you EARN to him. He never said give it to the church you go to, givr it to jaosaphat, he said HIM. So you give ten percent to GOD. You ask God where he wants it. Whatever you give outside of that ten percent is your own offering to God. If your church gives (and actually gives) to those who need help in other countrys or support other missionaries, go ahead and give it to your chuch. The church eneds income too, and they split it up to their own accord. My church gives so much to missionaries, I wonder how they support themselves (I know they give alot, we give alot, so dont say do you really know, cause I help give it)

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Let me make it simple for you. God said give ten percent of what you EARN to him.

Would you mind sharing with me where the word of God says this? Can you show me one place where the word of God shows the tithe being leveled aginst wages earned in EXCHANGE for one's time, skills and labor? From what I have read, the tithe was a tenth of the INCREASE of the PRODUCE from the fields, orchards, vineyards, and of the INCREASE of the flocks and herds. I can't find ANYWHERE that the people of Israel were required to give a tenth of their wages. Could you enlighten us all as to where you get the backing for your statement?

If your church gives (and actually gives) to those who need help in other countrys or support other missionaries, go ahead and give it to your chuch.

What about here at home. Paul said that those who do not see to the needs of their own are worse than infidels. Why does it have to be overseas to qualify as giving to the Lord when that clearly goes against His own words?

The church eneds income too, and they split it up to their own accord.

I have no problem with people supporting the religious institution they choose to attend. If you had read my posts, you would have understood this. My only bone was people handing over the PRIMARY portion of their support to organized religion. Most "church" organiztaions absorb some to most of that portion of believer's giving for their own expenditures. This is wromg. I don't care if they do support missionaries. That never gives them the right to abosrb what is supposed to go for the meeting of needs.

Can you show me where one morsal of the tithe was used for the temple expenditures and upkeep? The tithe was food, not money. Where do people get all these misconceptions apart from the garbage being taught from false teachers standing behind pulpits?

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Hmm.

No response.

Static silence.

I must have hit a nerve in someone who thought they were going to simplify it for me. :smt064

BTW

 

[4Israel]

on tithing

my argument against tithing is that in and of itself it allows the institutional church to exist the existence of which has been THE most significant hindrance to the Body of Christ (the corporate church). the NT church (ACTS) disappeared during the Dark Ages, itself being replaced worldwide by the Roman Catholic church. During and after the Reformation the institutional church as it exists today comprised of many different denominations flourished: all requiring financial support to exist. The NT church model (ACTS) was never resurrected unfortunately. Had it been, wheather to tithe or not would not even be an issue open for discussion.

 

[Julian Pyke]

I never said every church was right in their giving. I never intened it to be directed at you, I was just voicing my belief. Sorry I didn't respond right on time for you, I have finals.

Now, I was only saying how my life is, I give to my church, who gives to missionaries (who DONT have to be in other countrys) who also give to other churches. I also give to other places. The church I attend is NOT organized religion.

I will get back to you on scripture, don't have time to answer everything u asked cause of finals.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Re: on tithing

my argument against tithing is that in and of itself it allows the institutional church to exist the existence of which has been THE most significant hindrance to the Body of Christ (the corporate church).

Good point. I've been saying all along that organized religion has no right to take one red cent of the primary portion of believer's giving for its own expenditures.

the NT church (ACTS) disappeared during the Dark Ages, itself being replaced worldwide by the Roman Catholic church.

There has always been an expression of the Church on this earth. The major cults never did replace the Church. It has always been there, and still is.

During and after the Reformation the institutional church as it exists today comprised of many different denominations flourished: all requiring financial support to exist. The NT church model (ACTS) was never resurrected unfortunately. Had it been, wheather to tithe or not would not even be an issue open for discussion.

This just goes to show what foundation institutionalism is REALLY built upon.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I never said every church was right in their giving. I never intened it to be directed at you, I was just voicing my belief. Sorry I didn't respond right on time for you, I have finals.

Yeah, me too. Next week is when they all hit for us. I just finished my engineering math final (take home portion), which is only one problem worked out by the use of PowerPoint. It took 17 pages to complete the equation.

Now, I was only saying how my life is, I give to my church, who gives to missionaries (who DONT have to be in other countrys) who also give to other churches. I also give to other places.

And I was sharing what the word of God teaches about the primary portion of our giving in relation to the seconday portion. Far too many people have these two items completely backwards. The emotional appeals of "missions" and "pastors" simply doesn't excuse the many abuses.

The church I attend is NOT organized religion.

Indeed? What is it, then?

I will get back to you on scripture, don't have time to answer everything u asked cause of finals.

I'm just taking a break for a few minutes before hitting the books again.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

On the lighter side of things, here are some humorous letters to God, from kids of various ages, who were allowed to write their notes on the walls of their Sunday school classrooms for all to...enjoy: :-D

Each one starts with "Dear God," so I will leave that out for the sake of space:

Are you really invisible, or is that a trick? Lucy

I want to be just like my Daddy when I get big but not with so much hair all over. Sam

Did you mean for giraffe to look like that or was it an accident. Norma

I keep waiting for spring but it never comes yet. Don't forget. Mark

You don't have to worry about me. I always look both ways. Dean

Instead of Letting people die and having to Make new ones, Why don't you just Keep the ones you got now? Jane

I went to this wedding, and they kissed right in church. Is that ok? Neil

I think the stapler is one of your greatest invention - Ruth M.

In bible times did they really talk that fancy? Jennifer

I think about you sometimes even whem I'm not praying. Elliot

I am American what are you? Robert

I bet it is very hard for you to love all of every body in the whole world There are only 4 people in our family and I can never do it. Nan

Thank you for the baby brother but I prayed for a puppy - Joyce

Please put a-nother holiday between Christmas and Easter. There is nothing good in there now. Ginny

If you watch in Church on Sunday I will show you my new shoes - Mickey D.

We - come - back - as - something - please - don't let - me - be Jennifer - Horton because - I - hate her. Denise

I WOULD LIKE TOO LIVE 900 YEARS LIKE THE GUY IN THE BIBLE - LOVE, CHRIS

We read thos. Edison made light. But in Sun. School they said you did it. So I bet he stolted your idea. Sincerly, Donna

If you give me Genie laml like Alladin I will give you anything you want except my money or my chess set. Raphael

If you let the dinasor not extinct we would not have a country. You did the right thing. Jonathan

Please send Dennis Clark to a different camp this year. Peter

I do not think anybody could be a better God. Well I just want you to know but I am not just saying that because you are God. Charles

Maybe Cain and Abel would not kill so much if they had their own rooms. It works with my brothers. Larry

BTW

 

[Henry]

The tithe is the most misunderstood and abused thing I think in the entire bible. Sad, to see by the replies here that so many have not learned the biblical tithe, and rather let men teach lies.

We are not to tithe at all !!! The tithe was for a temple that is not needed any more !!! We are to GIVE freely as we are able to those in need, that is NOT a tithe, the tithe was TAX !!!

The NT church NEVER tithed, they gave to those in need. NOT A BUILDING NOT A PROGRAM AND NOT A PASTORS SALARY, but to the brother or sister who is in need. From you hand to theirs.

 

[4Israel]

Amen & Amen!

Thank you, Henry! I do so appreciate your courage and conviction and your willingness to speak the truth IN love. You do know that you're gonna get "slammed" though, don't you, Henry? My position as far as the "tithe" is concerned is that you might as well be flushing that money down the toilet. God is not impressed. I just don't get it,Henry! I mean, it's really NOT that complicated. All that it requires is that you listen more intently to what the Holy Spirit is trying to tell you and not quite as much to what the guy in the pulpit has to say in the matter. Why is that so difficult for some people to do. I will never understand it, Henry.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Most folks always like hearing what good little christians they are, especially when they attend all the religious ceremonies and Bible studies each time the doors are open, and hand over their tithes and offerings, all on a regular basis. It seems that these little warm fuzzies enjoy a level of covetousness unparelleled by almost any other inclination. When confronted with the pharisaical shallowness of these things compared to the deep, rich, dynamic life that is received from only One source, they lash out at the messenger with unrestrained, resentful hatred that anyone would dare to challenge their confort zone, which enjoys a level of broad acceptance across the christian religion that only the sheer power of tradition could possibly explain, backed by a very wise enemy, of course.

I covet the hateful, foaming-at-the-mouth e-mails that I get for speaking about things that strike deep into the evil pride of men and women alike. It is these very people for whom I pray, that they may one day have their eyes opened to the glorious riches of Christ, not only what is written within the word of God, but also what the Spirit of the Lord offers in the place of these inferior expressions and endeavors.

Keep those letters coming. May the Lord turn you back to Himself. I don't want your "tithes", I don't want your "offerings", I don't want you to follow me at all, but rather that you keep your eyes centered and focused on Christ Jesus alone. This clearly draws the line between myself and our many "pastors" who desire so much to surround themselves with a generous following, who will also be willing to remain in perpetual sheepdom (reliance upon him) rather than to grow and become functional giants in the body of Christ and in the Faith.

BTW

 

[45rt]

HI ALL

sorry for coming so late, have not read all posts, but there is a big post on this subject 'tytheing' at this link: http://www.christian-bible-truths.com

Its under ARCHIVE 54 AND 55, hope it helps some of you

45rt

 

[gingercat]

hi, btw

I agree with you 100% that most Christian communities are not giving to the real causes. Most of the money goes to the church buildings, building upkeeps, pastors' salaries, musicians' salaries and so on. It's so sad that christianity is so worldly and doesn't have much dignity, godliness, righteousness, holiness, and compassion for needy Christians overseas. We are abusing His name and disgracing Him with our hypocritical practice.

I hope you are not against giving to the real cause which God wants us to do. Jesus wants us to be generous givers, especially those who are so wealthy like us in the free countries. Wealthy people should give much more than 10%. Most of us should be able to give much more than 10% and I am not talking about giving to the churches and pastors.) If we are limiting our giving only up to 10%, then we are being legalistic.

 

[Henry]

4Israel

my argument against tithing is that in and of itself it allows the institutional church to exist the existence of which has been THE most significant hindrance to the Body of Christ (the corporate church). the NT church (ACTS) disappeared during the Dark Ages, itself being replaced worldwide by the Roman Catholic church. During and after the Reformation the institutional church as it exists today comprised of many different denominations flourished: all requiring financial support to exist. The NT church model (ACTS) was never resurrected unfortunately. Had it been, wheather to tithe or not would not even be an issue open for discussion.

Well I must say, I am very much in agreement with you…You are so right that tithe is nothing but a way to keep the IC going, and amen it is a bondage to the body.

Where I would not agree is in the time when the church lost it’s way, and became a business. That happened when constintine “legalized†the church. The church had been institutionalized long before the dark ages, but certainly those times specifically contributed to what we see today.

And, Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against his church, so that church never died. It has been going on all along behind all this other junk.

And is still very much alive today, praise the Lord.

I am in part of that very movement, and I can tell you the tithe is not an issue that ever comes up. If there is a need we just give to that need, the church is a family and not a business.

Julian Pyke

The church I attend is NOT organized religion.

Does your church has a leadership, and does it have to pay bills for a building and committees for this and that, are there people who mow the grass? You can not have a building based church that is not organized religion.

4Israel

Thank you, Henry! I do so appreciate your courage and conviction and your willingness to speak the truth IN love. You do know that you're gonna get "slammed" though, don't you, Henry? My position as far as the "tithe" is concerned is that you might as well be flushing that money down the toilet. God is not impressed. I just don't get it,Henry! I mean, it's really NOT that complicated. All that it requires is that you listen more intently to what the Holy Spirit is trying to tell you and not quite as much to what the guy in the pulpit has to say in the matter. Why is that so difficult for some people to do. I will never understand it, Henry.

Oh you must know that I get slammed all the time, not only do I think the tithe is just wrong, so is the building and the pastor and all that other stuff. Not they are not good and God fearing men, just been fooled and pulled into the system. Victoms of their own game, as it where.

I don’t get it either, I mean it seems if ANYONE would just read the bible, they would see this stuff is not right.

SOME SHOCKING TRUTHS ABOUT THE CHRISTIAN TITHING DOCTRINE
1. Abraham never tithed on his own personal property or livestock.

2. Jacob wouldn’t tithe until God blessed him first.

3. Only Levite priests could collect tithes, and there are no Levite priests today.

4. Only food products from the land were tithable.

5. Money was never a titheable commodity.

6. Christian converts were never asked to tithe anything to the Church.

7. Tithing in the Church first appears centuries after completion of the Bible.