Today's Middle East

[reba]

The whole of the OT was a picture of Christ... A pattern if you will of the real... The desire of some folks to rebuild a temple to me is such a slap in the face of our Lord... I know we dont all agree and this is just my 2 cents... This desire speaks to me saying the Cross of Christ was not enough I want something i can see....His life His leaving Glory to die for us... God sacrificed His Son to do away with the temple way of life... like the mormons i need a temple i can walk around in I can point to and say see this is for my God..... Like Lots wife going forward is not enough i will look back..Such a low view of What God has done I dont get it.....
Joh_20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[reba]

Are you not the temple of the Holy Ghost?

 

[reba]

There is not a passage of scripture that says the antichrist well set in a temple...

Edward i will not respond ... makes it to hard to moderate....

 

[Joe Domingo]

The whole of the OT was a picture of Christ... A pattern if you will of the real... The desire of some folks to rebuild a temple to me is such a slap in the face of our Lord... I know we dont all agree and this is just my 2 cents... This desire speaks to me saying the Cross of Christ was not enough I want something i can see....His life His leaving Glory to die for us... God sacrificed His Son to do away with the temple way of life... like the mormons i need a temple i can walk around in I can point to and say see this is for my God..... Like Lots wife going forward is not enough i will look back..Such a low view of What God has done I dont get it.....
Joh_20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

I agree with you. This is a rather strange desire for a believer to have. But again, as much as I hate to do this - I believe the desire stems from those who believe in an ethnic unrepentant Israel/Jew that will be miraculously converted at the time of the end. I see no support for that in Scripture. I also do not see how in God's sovereignty another Temple will be built when Jesus has replaced it.

 

[Sinthesis]

That is very perceptive of you. Eze 43:10 shows us that the ideal temple described in Ezekiel's vision was to be the standard to which the promised reality of a physical post-Babylon second temple could never measure up, even with Harrod's 46yr+ remodeling. Of course we now understand that were this temple to be physically built today it would not need the blood sacrifices required of temple Judaism before Christ. Yet it is also important to realize that if Ezekiel's temple was to be physically built according to his vision, it would not be on the Temple Mount, but north of the city.

Ty Sinthesis. Trying to piece it all together here. And [MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION], that is an interesting take on it, and I can not disagree with what you say. I don't necessarily want the temple to be rebuilt, I just am watching and waiting and trying to understand more of this and how it all fits together. Your point is well taken.

I suppose the basis for thinking that that the temple needs to rebuilt before Jesus returns again is based on 2 Thessalonians 2:3-5, that the anti-Christ will sit in the temple and declare himself to be God. If it is not a physical temple, then how could he sit within the temple and declare himself to be God?

Second Thessalonians was written when a physical temple was still standing. When the Jewish leadership rejected Christ as their Messiah, after which that very same generation chose to rebel against Rome on their own terms, they were figuratively taking the place of God as their rightful Deliverer from sin/death/Rome/etc. How could that ever end well?

Also, when 'he' sits in the place of God, 'he' shows himself that 'he' is God, but that doesn't mean anyone else believes it.

 

[Joe Domingo]

There is not a passage of scripture that says the antichrist well set in a temple...

Amen

 

[jasoncran]

Well...I agree, however in earlier chapters of the OT and Gods people did not obey, there's scripture where God talks about it, because the people have not hearkened unto the Lords words, then I shall...and so forth and so on.

I'm wanting to learn about this, and everyone certainly has very strong beliefs of one thing or another, but are strangely silent on this. I would think that having such strong beliefs would be based on study and scripture, and yet all I'm really getting is opinions and no scripture backing. Huh. I'm OT weak, and asked for some help understand the issue and I only hear crickets from the ones who come on so strong as if they are some type of ultra knowledgeable teachers and such. I ask what seems to be a simple question on a related issue and...chirp chirp. That's very curious to me! I have an open mind and request exegesis and find no help. :dunno

then get ahold of these two. myself and stovebolts. we are knowledgable on the torah and tanach. when one studies the book of exodus and understand the command of moses one will get the idea.

 

[smaller]

Are you not the temple of the Holy Ghost?

Of course, but how could the anti-Christ sit within me and declare himself to be God if I am praying daily to not be deceived?

This deserves a response:

Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8
All have sin. (too many to cite)

Satan and devils are also resistors or opposers of Christ, making them 'anti-Christ' spirits, and yes, the anti-Christ is both a spirit and many in nature. Satan and devils are certainly 'evil spirits.' And they also obviously operate 'in man.'

So the 2 Thess. citings by Paul on this particular matter are much more interesting when we run the reasoning math on the subject. Far more likely than 'a single flesh man' sitting in a brick and mortar temple at some future time. Satan already sits where only GOD belongs, IN our temples.

s

 

[jasoncran]

I also suggest going to either chabad.org and learn about the torah from them, and or reading ramban. be but warned pray first and always check the stuff as these are straight up jewish sources and they can confuse you.if you do learn how to digest that then you see how "jewish" our faith is. not the teachings at times but the bible and the metaphors and thoughts.

 

[jasoncran]

one can check ramban with adam Clarke, and also use some of the messianic jewish stuff. the bible will shine out with the sages teaching at times. especially some of paul's statements on the earth crying out for redemption or the statement by peter for the day of the lord is as a thousand years

 

[justpassingby]

if you do learn how to digest that then you see how "jewish" our faith is. not the teachings at times but the bible and the metaphors and thoughts.

The following verses are out of the “Bibleâ€. Read the following and then tell me what happened next

(Ezek 21:25KJV)

(Ezek 21:31KJV)

(Ezek 21:32KJV)

 

[jasoncran]

so the oracles of God were given to gentiles? yeah when jesus spoke in the parables those were Babylonian thoughts? muslims thoughts? or well American?

 

[John 8:32]

There is not a passage of scripture that says the antichrist well set in a temple...

Edward i will not respond ... makes it to hard to moderate....

He is not known as the Antichrist (although that term is used), he is in actuality the Man of Sin...

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Deborah13]

Also, I have read that they think that construction of another temple would not have to disturb the dome of the rock, that the location would be perhaps 100 yards away from it.

Only if they do not include the outer court, from what I've read. And if I remember correctly Gentiles (strangers?) were not allowed past the outer court.
Someone please correct my if I am wrong about this.

 

[farouk]

Also, I have read that they think that construction of another temple would not have to disturb the dome of the rock, that the location would be perhaps 100 yards away from it.

Only if they do not include the outer court, from what I've read. And if I remember correctly Gentiles (strangers?) were not allowed past the outer court.
Someone please correct my if I am wrong about this.

Deborah13:

Ariel Sharon, who became Israel's Prime Minister, has been regarded as a very radical Jewish nationalist and military figure for decades and an Israeli tribunal even once found him indirectly responsible for genocide (no need for anyone to blame the media, here; we can just refer to the Israeli commission).

Before he became Prime Minister, he visited the Temple Mount. Lots of folk got annoyed. Gentiles? Well, actually it was ultra-Orthodox Jews who got really annoyed with him. Why?

Because Mr Sharon wore the wrong sort of shoes.

Blessings.

(PS: You see why, despite what some of our friends on this site try to say, I'm personally a dispensationalist... )

 

[Deborah13]

Now that's an interesting speculation. Taking it a bit further we could surmise that there is no more redemption possible through the blood of Christ (for new sins) because it is finished, Jesus work in that aspect is done, and he will not be nailed a cross again.

Ephesians 3
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
.....
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

The Messiah, the Christ, Jesus and His ministry was the secret that had been hidden in God.
v11 says that this is an eternal purpose, forever.

I find the vocabulary interesting in verse 18 the same vocab. used when there is a description of a temple building.

Hebrews 10:29
who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

If one were to return to sacrificing animals for atonement for sin, as it says in Ezekiel, I believe that is exactly what they would be doing, "trodden under foot the Son of God". All I can say is that if I were alive to see this day, I will not be running off to Israel to participate in this. In Ezekiel it says "all" will do this. So for me this cannot be talking about the millennium or any other time when Jesus is on the earth. If it didn't say "all" then maybe I could see how those who did not receive Him being allowed to do sacrifices on a temporary bases much like the 40 yrs between Jesus death and the temple destruction in 70 AD. But "all". No. Just my opinion of this.

 

[Deborah13]

Of course, but how could the anti-Christ sit within me and declare himself to be God if I am praying daily to not be deceived?

If you do a word search on the word antichrist, I think they are all in 1 John, you will get a very clear picture of who and what is and could be antichrist. It also says "spirit of antichrist".

 

[Deborah13]

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

So 'IF' the government of The State of Israel and those who are unbelievers in that state were to build a temple, I could see how the one standing there in the temple, exalting himself above God, could be the temple priest. Denying the Messiah, Jesus, and His atoning blood. Declaring himself the High Priest, when we know that is Jesus.

 

[farouk]

This is all after the church has gone.

Blessings.

 

[Deborah13]

Do you mean Ephesians 3:18?

Please understand I am just stating my thoughts and opinions. The very idea of blood sacrifices makes my stomach turn, so I am not completely objective in my views. and you know it's not because of killing lambs, as I am a hunter and farmer.

No, I mean the one I quote, being Eph 3:18, where it says "breadth, and length, and depth, and height". I just found it interesting that Paul should use this particular description. It's the same vocab. used in building a temple.

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

We are called temples, we need to understand the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; being rooted and grounded in love, in the faith in Christ.
If we do not understand and a false prophet were to say, see here is the temple spoken of in scripture and it says all shall worship Him here...
Right now people run off to the Jordan river to be baptized in the same river as Jesus? They go and put their prays in the wailing wall in Jerusalem, how much would it take to convince them that they are now to go once a year to worship in an unholy temple?

Just my thoughts. We need to stand fast in our faith in Jesus and His blood, ONLY.