Today's Middle East

[Grappler]

Wow. You really don't know? Ok then i will explain it as simple as i can. Jesus the Son of God. You see Jesus came to Earth to die for the sins of man. He was the final sacrifice. When he was crucified God reached down and tore the veil of the temple from top to bottom. The temple was no longer needed. To build a temple and begin the sacrifices again would be an insult to Jesus and the Father. We don't need a temple we have Jesus...and any attempt to make some kind of sacrifice in his place would be an abomination in the sight of God.

I'm not saying they should start making sacrifices again. I know that's not needed. They did more than just sacrifice animals in the temple. Jesus visited the temple a lot when he was flesh on earth. I agree I need to study more. We all do. I'll research this some for sure, but I don't really see right now how rebuilding it wold be an abomination to God. They're talking about rebuilding it too, but not for sacrifices.

Actually those who are talking of rebuilding it are certainly planning on sacrificing animals...that was the main point of the temple to begin with...and as i said before the animals that will be sacrificed will be an insult to the blood of Jesus. Scripture teaches that Jesus came to the "Jews" first and then to the Gentiles....these Jews need Jesus just as much as a Muslim.

 

[Grappler]

I hope you understand that if a temple is rebuilt it will be an abomination in the sight of God.

Why would that be?

I'm also not saying that it absolutely will or anything like that, but it reads that way to me. But still...I do have a lot to learn.

Wow. You really don't know? Ok then i will explain it as simple as i can. Jesus the Son of God. You see Jesus came to Earth to die for the sins of man. He was the final sacrifice. When he was crucified God reached down and tore the veil of the temple from top to bottom. The temple was no longer needed. To build a temple and begin the sacrifices again would be an insult to Jesus and the Father. We don't need a temple we have Jesus...and any attempt to make some kind of sacrifice in his place would be an abomination in the sight of God.

As you continue in this line of thinking, factor in Ezek 40 - 48.

Sum it up for me i don't have the time to re-read it.

 

[Grappler]

Grappler - you are spot on with your comments.

For those of you who are serious and want to take a look at the hard facts, how about a getting it from a Jewish geneticist with 40 years of research on the subject. His findings were published just a few months ago. There are articles all over the web on it and many of them are Jewish sites! This is just one such site.
http://matzav.com/report-new-genetic-study-says-ashkenazi-jews-descend-from-khazars

This is a link to Dr. Eran Elhaik's own words but you may have to subscribe. Nothing like hearing it directly from him.
http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week...ple-s-ultimate-treasure-hunt.premium-1.490539

Zionists are not true Israelites or Jews and therefore makes the founding of the State of Israel on false premise.

Note: Dr. Eran Elhaik was bent on getting to bottom of his Jewish roots and set out on a long journey to do so. In case anyone is wondering why a Jewish geneticist would break this out in the open. He is well published now and is making waves!

Here's another link.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130116195333.htm

Thank you. I believe that Zionism is one of the biggest deceptions that Satan has ever unleashed on mankind...and i am sad to admit that for a little while i was part of that crowd. You a right most "Jews" in Israel are not even genetically related to Abraham...technically they are not even Semites...they are not descendents of Shem but are descendents of Japheth through the Khazars.

 

[Grappler]

Zionists are not true Israelites or Jews and therefore makes the founding of the State of Israel on false premise.

So the nation of Israel is not the nation of Israel? Israel wasn't reborn in 1948? This is all some sort of smoke and mirrors thing going on? Come now, my good man, genetics and bloodlines and all that are the smoke and mirrors here. We can't even establish that they're a nation at this point? We will push them into the sea and deny even their flag waving in the sky? That's...uh, incongruous.

The nation of Israel is NOT the Israel of the bible. Paul who was a true "Jew" made it very clear that ALL in Christ have inherited the promises made to Abraham. He also made it clear that believing Gentiles become part of Israel. I can give you chapter and verse if you like for these. BUT what is even more amusing is that there are some Orthodox Jews who do NOT support the modern state of Israel. I will say it again. There are Orthodox Jews who do NOT support the Zionists state of Israel while there are Christians here in the US who do support this nation of "Israel"....that is ironic. You mentioned their flag. They call it the star of David which is NOT at all scripturally supported. Show me in scripture where there is some kind of "star of David." There is not....the hexagram is an occultic symbol...used in witchcraft and paganism. It is the star of Ashteroth which is mentioned in scripture...Ashteroth was a pagan god one of many that Solomon began to worship in his later years.

 

[Sinthesis]

I hope you understand that if a temple is rebuilt it will be an abomination in the sight of God.

Why would that be?

I'm also not saying that it absolutely will or anything like that, but it reads that way to me. But still...I do have a lot to learn.

Wow. You really don't know? Ok then i will explain it as simple as i can. Jesus the Son of God. You see Jesus came to Earth to die for the sins of man. He was the final sacrifice. When he was crucified God reached down and tore the veil of the temple from top to bottom. The temple was no longer needed. To build a temple and begin the sacrifices again would be an insult to Jesus and the Father. We don't need a temple we have Jesus...and any attempt to make some kind of sacrifice in his place would be an abomination in the sight of God.

As you continue in this line of thinking, factor in Ezek 40 - 48.

Pay specific attention to where Ezekiel's temple is to be built. It is important.

 

[Sinthesis]

As Christians we accept that genetic descent is not a valid criteria for inclusion in 'true Israel'. Why then would we be preoccupied with categorizing any other group based on genetic descent? That is carnal thinking, and violates the specific teachings of Christ. If any modern group of people want to identify themselves with historic Judaism, then that is fine regardless their individual genetic heritage, just as we Christians identify ourselves with historic Judaism as the spiritual children of the Jewish messiah Jesus Christ.

 

[John 8:32]

Ezekiel 43: 4-7

4 The glory of the Lord entered the temple through the gate facing east. 5 Then the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court, and the glory of the Lord filled the temple.
6 While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. 7 He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever.

Somebody tell me what this means? It sounds like it's saying...No, just tell me for my edification. Thank you.

Teh Temple that is built during the Millenium. That is the subject matter of ezek 40-48

 

[jasoncran]

sheesh, so when did it become scriputural to teach the Lord changes the way of salvation after his second return? im mean that verse where it says ye shall neither worship at this mountain or that.. and that the Father seeks such to worship him in spirit has a limited time offer to it?

 

[jasoncran]

actually the Ramban interprets that verse to be the indwelling of the torah and the third temple would be a fleshly one. he quotes that verse and use a word study to show it!

 

[jasoncran]

No one has an answer to that yet? Was the temple described in Ezekiel 40-48 ever built?

no, the jews never repented, firs they had to repent and then when they did then god would return them from captivity and then they would build the temple. its in there where zeke was to go to the elders of the people and tell them of the "offer"

 

[jasoncran]

its common sense, if the jews were to repent. what would be the means of it? hint hint. I am a jewish Christian. the cross was for whom? both jews and gentiles. the only way that a man is saved is by???
43:9-11

Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

it would make sense the temple wasnt built that the jews then and isreal didn't repent. the offer was to both. it lists the tribes. its very conditional.

 

[Grappler]

As Christians we accept that genetic descent is not a valid criteria for inclusion in 'true Israel'. Why then would we be preoccupied with categorizing any other group based on genetic descent? That is carnal thinking, and violates the specific teachings of Christ. If any modern group of people want to identify themselves with historic Judaism, then that is fine regardless their individual genetic heritage, just as we Christians identify ourselves with historic Judaism as the spiritual children of the Jewish messiah Jesus Christ.

I see that you like to ignore science and history. Ok then how about we look at some scripture shall we? Galatians 3:29 Paul who was a genetic descendent of Abraham wrote this "And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to the promise." I am Christ's so therefore I am a descendent of Abraham as well. The whole genetic dispute is just an extra. It is an amusement. Because most people in modern day Zionists Israel who claim to be "Jews" are not descendants of Abraham physically nor spiritually. That is what the New Covenant is all about...we Christians are now the "offspring" of Abraham we are the true Israel not that state in the Middle East that calls itself Israel.

 

[Ryan]

No one has an answer to that yet? Was the temple described in Ezekiel 40-48 ever built?

No...not yet anyways.

Here is a short clip on what it will look like.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn7QlyckVS0

There is absolutely nothing conditional about it whatsoever. Israel will repent and come to know Jesus as their Messiah, and their hearts will be circumcised. It has been prophesied and I take God's Word for it.

Ezekiel's temple is spoken more then the earthly tabernacle, Solomon's Temple and Herod's temple all put together. So why o why spend 9 chapters on something that was not to come?

 

[Joe Domingo]

As for Ezekiel's Temple - this may very well turn out to be figurative language for New Jerusalem. And I don't mean that a Temple will be built in it but that Jesus is the Temple in it. Just my hunch I freely admit that ...

 

[Joe Domingo]

figurative language for New Jerusalem.

Figurative language? Boy, it sure gets specific for being figurative, dontcha think? Or did you not read it?

Yes I have read it a few times. Again, it was just a hunch and said very loosely. I admit I have been stumped by this vision for years. There are many drawings available on the net. One of my favorites shows the Temple superimposed on Mt Moriah.

http://www.solomonstemple.com/

 

[John 8:32]

I find it very interesting that sacrifices will be performed again. I believe that the reason is that after a few generations of a virtually perfect society in the Millenium people will once again have need of the schoolmaster. The animal sacrifices that pictured the death of Christ in their stead. Since sin won't be rampant and unnatural death will be so very rare, there may be a need for people to see an example that shows that sin requires blood again. But this is just my supposition here, certainly not doctrine. Sometimes it is fun to speculate.

 

[Joe Domingo]

I find it very interesting that sacrifices will be performed again. I believe that the reason is that after a few generations of a virtually perfect society in the Millenium people will once again have need of the schoolmaster. The animal sacrifices that pictured the death of Christ in their stead. Since sin won't be rampant and unnatural death will be so very rare, there may be a need for people to see an example that shows that sin requires blood again. But this is just my supposition here, certainly not doctrine. Sometimes it is fun to speculate.

This is why I said that it has me stumped. I honestly don't believe God will resort to anymore animal sacrifices. I t just goes in the face of John 3:16.

At my best I can only resort to Ezekiel's Temple being allegorical. Hence why I think it has to do with the New Jerusalem. It is quite possible that Ezekiel was understanding the vision with the tools of the day.

 

[John 8:32]

I find it very interesting that sacrifices will be performed again. I believe that the reason is that after a few generations of a virtually perfect society in the Millenium people will once again have need of the schoolmaster. The animal sacrifices that pictured the death of Christ in their stead. Since sin won't be rampant and unnatural death will be so very rare, there may be a need for people to see an example that shows that sin requires blood again. But this is just my supposition here, certainly not doctrine. Sometimes it is fun to speculate.

This is why I said that it has me stumped. I honestly don't believe God will resort to anymore animal sacrifices. I t just goes in the face of John 3:16.

At my best I can only resort to Ezekiel's Temple being allegorical. Hence why I think it has to do with the New Jerusalem. It is quite possible that Ezekiel was understanding the vision with the tools of the day.

I think with Christ there, the animal sacrifices will be understod. They are not the payment for sin and were never intended to be...

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Just as we read in Col 2, the animal sacrifices were a shadow of the coming perfect sacrifice of Christ.

Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

If they truly could have paid for sin, they would have been offered once and that would have been sufficient.

Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

They were a bloody reminder that sin requires blood. The wages of sin is death.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

They themselves could not redeem sin, but were an illustration of what sin causes. So, in the Millenium, after a few generations, people will not have seen war, hate, pornography, filth, lying, blasphemy, etc. That behavior will not be tolerated in the Millenium when Christ and the saints rule. At this point, they may need an illustration of the consequences of sin. Now again, this is supposition on my part, nothing for me to get my panties in a bunch about.

 

[John 8:32]

I find it very interesting that sacrifices will be performed again. I believe that the reason is that after a few generations of a virtually perfect society in the Millenium people will once again have need of the schoolmaster. The animal sacrifices that pictured the death of Christ in their stead. Since sin won't be rampant and unnatural death will be so very rare, there may be a need for people to see an example that shows that sin requires blood again. But this is just my supposition here, certainly not doctrine. Sometimes it is fun to speculate.

Now that's an interesting speculation. Taking it a bit further we could surmise that there is no more redemption possible through the blood of Christ (for new sins) because it is finished, Jesus work in that aspect is done, and he will not be nailed a cross again.

Just loose speculation, I hope this doesn't upset anyone.

Yes I have read it a few times. Again, it was just a hunch and said very loosely. I admit I have been stumped by this vision for years. There are many drawings available on the net. One of my favorites shows the Temple superimposed on Mt Moriah.

That's interesting. I notice that this temple is different in design to the other temples. If another temple is to be built I wonder of what design it will be? I have a pic of the model for another design, presumably the same design of the earlier temples? Also, I have read that they think that construction of another temple would not have to disturb the dome of the rock, that the location would be perhaps 100 yards away from it. Something about IR photography flyovers revealing underground ruins of the earlier temple away from the Dome.

Time will tell.

The only thing we know about this Temple is what we read in Ezek 40-48, I don't think we can look to the plan of the previous two. It may be similar, but it will be far more glorious.

 

[Sinthesis]

There is absolutely nothing conditional about it whatsoever. Israel will repent and come to know Jesus as their Messiah, and their hearts will be circumcised. It has been prophesied and I take God's Word for it.

Interesting video. Taking Ezekiel's chapters on the temple in context of the times, it was before Jesus. Perhaps if they had repented and built the temple, sacrifices would have been in order at that time since Jesus hadn't came yet. If it happens in present day, the sacrifices would no longer be needed. The video also addressed my question that I posed earlier with a possible explanation for those words. Hmmm

That is very perceptive of you. Eze 43:10 shows us that the ideal temple described in Ezekiel's vision was to be the standard to which the promised reality of a physical post-Babylon second temple could never measure up, even with Harrod's 46yr+ remodeling. Of course we now understand that were this temple to be physically built today it would not need the blood sacrifices required of temple Judaism before Christ. Yet it is also important to realize that if Ezekiel's temple was to be physically built according to his vision, it would not be on the Temple Mount, but north of the city.