Bible Study Trinity Evidence All False

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Squeakybro said:
Dime if you cant see there is nothing I can do about that. But whether it be alpha and omega or it be Lord were transfered from God to Jesus in some cases. The only title that was never transfered was God.
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Maybe I just have a misunderstanding of your personality as being abrasive.

Please accept my apology.


But you did say, "The only title that was never transfered was God"


Here is just one place where the term "God" is given to Jesus.


Titus 2:12-14
It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
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DIME Ministries said:
Here is just one place where the term "God" is given to Jesus.


Titus 2:12-14
It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
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Not to mention this:

Matthew 1:22-23 (NASB)
22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
23 "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."

And…

Merrian-Webster Online says:

Main Entry: Im·man·u·el
Pronunciation: i-'man-y&-w&l, -y&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English Emanuel, from Late Latin Emmanuel, from Greek EmmanouEl, from Hebrew 'immAnu'El, literally, with us is God

Source:
Merriam-Webster Online
 
Nocturnal Principal X

Thanks for the verse!

I did say that my post was only 1 of the many. :)

Be blessed!!! :D
 
Dime you said
of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

I said
Do you see the word "and" that separates the two. And it is understandable. When one understands that God was in Jesus and that God is Spirit and cant be seen. When they addressed Jesus after they seen God working through Him. How else were they to address Him. If they just addressed God they would be ignoring Jesus, If they just addressed Jesus they would be ignoring God. So they addressed them both.

2 Cor 5:19
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)
 
God with us. We know that God was in Jesus for awhile but then God left Jesus we also know that.

Matt 1:23
23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."
(NKJ)



Matt 27:46
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
(NKJ)

We also know what Jesus told us about God. That the Father is the only true God.

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

We also know what the apostles said about God. Yet for us there is one God the Father.

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)
 
Squeakybro said:
Dime you said
of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

I said
Do you see the word "and" that separates the two. And it is understandable. When one understands that God was in Jesus and that God is Spirit and cant be seen. When they addressed Jesus after they seen God working through Him. How else were they to address Him. If they just addressed God they would be ignoring Jesus, If they just addressed Jesus they would be ignoring God. So they addressed them both.
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Here is another way of saying it:


My mother and friend, Jan.


Jan is both my mother and my friend. That doens't mean that she is only Jan, but my mother as well.


You can't see how clear this is?
 
Dime you said

Here is another way of saying it:


I said
That is the point it can go either way. So that verse is not an absolute.
Now these verses are an absolute. Jesus told us Himself that the only true God is the Father.

John 17:1-3

1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Here is another absolute. Paul said there is only one God the Father.

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)
 
Note where the comma is:

Titus 2:12-14
It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
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If the comma were after "God" then what you claim would be true.

But it isn't. Jesus is refered to as God clearly as the computer in front of your face.
 
Well I can see the computer in front of my face alright. But I dont see what you see. Maybe that is because I have the Holy Spirit that always backs up a verse with many other verses. Like when Jesus said the Father is the only true God.

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Or when the apostles said there is only one God the Father.

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Proper understanding of the Word does not allow your interpretation of that verse. Because in order for you to be right you would have to pervert all these other verses.
 
Are Arians allowed to soapbox in this forum?

Shouldn't squeakybro's topics belong in "Apologetics" or "Other Religions?"
 
Vise you said
Are Arians allowed to soapbox in this forum?

Shouldn't squeakybro's topics belong in "Apologetics" or "Other Religions?"

I said
Help me out here what is a Arians?
 
An "Arian" is one who holds to the teaching of Arius. Arius's chief bone of contention was the nature of Jesus Christ. He denighed that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh!

There are a number of Arian groups such as Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, Islam.
 
I did some checking and that is just one of their beliefs. That is one they had right, but there are many others they had wrong. I think because someone has one thing in common but many things not common to another is no reason to label them. That would be like labeling a christian as a muslim because they both have one thing in common, they both believe in God.
But if your going to label people as a denomination when they only have one thing in common with them that would make you a muslim.
You should really study on the word 'guile' that is what your useing.

1 Pet 2:1-3

1 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all guile, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking,
2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,
3 if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
(NKJ)

Now as far as Jesus being God. Jesus said Himself that the Father is the only true God. Are you going to label Jesus an Arian?

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
 
Squeakybro said:
John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
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Nice verses but try looking at the entire chapter. See what you are doing is picking and choosing verses and taking them out of context.

Here you are just click below:
Chapter 17 of John

Oh yeah kind of interesting that John 1:14 and John 17:22-26 go well together:

John 1:14
14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 17:22-26
22"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;
23in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
24"Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25"O righteous Father, although the world has not known You, yet I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me;
26and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

I suggest you read the entire book of John and I guaranty that you will get a different perspective on it. Oh care to explain away the following verses:

The plurality of God in the Old and New Testament
 
you said

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Nice verses but try looking at the entire chapter. See what you are doing is picking and choosing verses and taking them out of context.

I said
That is very silly. How could verses 1,2,3 be out of context?
 
I did not label Arians as a denomination. i was explaining what an Arian was, as you asked. You accused me of using "guile"? I am not the one wresting the scriptures.
 
I am weary at posting in this forum again, because of the non-Christian behavior, but I did want to post one more verse:


Colossians 2:8-10 (NIV)
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.
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All the deity of God was in Christ, thus Christ was fully God.
 
evanman you said


I did not label Arians as a denomination. i was explaining what an Arian was, as you asked. You accused me of using "guile"? I am not the one wresting the scriptures.

I said
No but you did try to label me an arian. If I am wrong I apologize but I dont think I am. If I have only one belief that agrees with any movement it does not make me part of that movement.
 
Dime you said

All the deity of God was in Christ, thus Christ was fully God.

I said
Now do you know that the NIV is the only bible that claims that. Do you also realize how many verses the NIV as deleted from the Word of God.
But have you ever looked up the definition of deity?

deity 1 a: often cap : divine nature or rank: the essintial nature of a god or of a supreme being: DIVINITY

di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>

Now it doesnt say that Jesus is God, what it says is He is second in command, but over every other creature in heaven and on earth.
I got my deffinitions from websters new world dictionary copyright 1993
 
Squeakybro said:
Dime you said

All the deity of God was in Christ, thus Christ was fully God.

I said
Now do you know that the NIV is the only bible that claims that. Do you also realize how many verses the NIV as deleted from the Word of God.
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly ZERO verses NIV has deleted. Can you show me one?
 
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