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Bible Study Trinity Evidence All False

you said
Does the Father have a body of flesh and bone?

I said
No the Father does not have a body of flesh and bones. God is invisible always has been always will be on earth. The only one who ever got a look at even part of God the Father was Moses and he only seen His back side.

John 4:23-24
23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
(NKJ)

John 5:37
37 "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
(NKJ)

We have never heard Gods voice. God the Father spoke to Jesus and Jesus told us what the Father said.
 
Squeakybro said:
you said

Jesus clearly stated (from the Father) that He would raise His own Body.

I said
And it is also clear that them words were not Jesus' personal words. The Father told Him to say that.
John 12:49
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
(NKJ)
Click to expand...

Squeakybro said:
you said
Does the Father have a body of flesh and bone?

I said
No the Father does not have a body of flesh and bones. God is invisible always has been always will be on earth. The only one who ever got a look at even part of God the Father was Moses and he only seen His back side.

John 4:23-24
23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
(NKJ)

John 5:37
37 "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
(NKJ)

We have never heard Gods voice. God the Father spoke to Jesus and Jesus told us what the Father said.
Click to expand...

OK Squeakybro. Here is why I asked you that question.

We both agree that Jesus said in John 2:19-21 the following:

In answer Jesus said to them: “Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.†Therefore the Jews said: “This temple was built in forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?†But he was talking about the temple of his body.
Click to expand...

And we both agree that Jesus was speaking only by the authority of God the Father.

But if it was only God the Father talking, then we have a problem.

That would mean that God the Father has a body of flesh and bone and blood!

Therefore, when Jesus said He would raise His own Body, it was God the Father talking, but also Jesus talking, because to say otherwise would indicate that God the Father has a body of flesh and bone.

We clearly know that both God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead because of these three irrefutable evidences:

John 2:19-21
In answer Jesus said to them: “Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.†Therefore the Jews said: “This temple was built in forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?†But he was talking about the temple of his body.

Acts 4:8-10
Then Peter, filled with holy spirit, said to them:
“Rulers of the people and older men, if we are this day being examined, on the basis of a good deed to an ailing man, as to by whom this man has been made well, let it be known to all of YOU and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ the Naz•a•rene´, whom YOU impaled but whom God raised up from the dead, by this one does this man stand here sound in front of YOU.

Romans 8:10-11
But if Christ is in union with YOU, the body indeed is dead on account of sin, but the spirit is life on account of righteousness. If, now, the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in YOU, he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also make YOUR mortal bodies alive through his spirit that resides in YOU.
Click to expand...

Passage 1 says Jesus would raise His body
Passage 2 says God the Father raised Jesus
Passage 3 says the spirit raised Jesus.

This is only possible if all three are equally God, part of the Trinity.
 
you said
And we both agree that Jesus was speaking only by the authority of God the Father.

But if it was only God the Father talking, then we have a problem.

I said
I think this is where you get delusional. When you say that Jesus was speaking only by the authority of God the Father, then you say only God the Father talking. How did you come up with God the Father talking?
 
Squeakybro said:
I think this is where you get delusional. When you say that Jesus was speaking only by the authority of God the Father, then you say only God the Father talking. How did you come up with God the Father talking?
Click to expand...

Right here:

John 12:49
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.(NKJ)
Click to expand...

I don't mean that God the Father *literally* was speaking, just like when the inspired writers of the Scriptures were not literally writing their own words, they were words given by God to write. That is how Jesus was talking, the words of God the Father.
 
Squeaky Will Not Acknowledge Truth

Many on this site have patiently proven to Squeaky from scripture that Jesus is God. A sincere seeker would have accepted long ago that scripture claims that Jesus is God numerous times.

Therefore, Squeaky is not a sincere seeker. What then could Squeaky be?
 
you said

Many on this site have patiently proven to Squeaky from scripture that Jesus is God. A sincere seeker would have accepted long ago that scripture claims that Jesus is God numerous times.

I said
I dont know what you call proof other than circumstantial verses that can be taken either way. That is not proof that is an assumption. Proof only comes from factual verses like this. That cant be taken two ways only one way. Jesus said the Father is the only true God.

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Or what the apostles said there is only one God the Father. That is a factual verse.

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Eph 4:6
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
(NKJ)

To claim Jesus is God or that Jesus is deity or divinity takes factual verses. I dont know how you can even claim Jesus is God by His divinity because that isnt even the definition of divinity.

deity 1 a: often cap : divine nature or rank: the essintial nature of a god or of a supreme being: DIVINITY

di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>

Now it doesnt say that Jesus is God, what it says is He is second in command, but over every other creature in heaven and on earth.
I got my deffinitions from websters new world dictionary copyright 1993

In order to believe that Jesus is God one has to deny these factual verses.
 
The Message reveals the sender

Let's see. Squeaky hears a voice that tells him to reject Jesus, our great God and Savior.

Where could this voice be coming from?
 
Squeakybro said:
Now it doesnt say that Jesus is God,
Click to expand...

I already gave proof of a verse that says "our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."

The comma being before Jesus makes all before it talking about Him, thus the title God belongs to Jesus Christ.

If it said, "Our great God, and our Savior Jesus Christ." then you would have reason, and there are places where it says this exact thing.

But it also says it the other way, which I have already given. You just deny this because it doesn't fit what you want to believe.

In order to believe that Jesus is God one has to deny these factual verses.
Click to expand...

Or accept that Jesus is both.
 
Let's see. Squeaky calls God's Word "circumstantial".

I always thought God's Word was authoritative and truthful. Where do you think Squeaky is getting the idea to call God's Word circumstantial?
 
Dime you said

I already gave proof of a verse that says "our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."

The comma being before Jesus makes all before it talking about Him, thus the title God belongs to Jesus Christ.

I said
Sorry but the NIV is the only one that perverted it. If you want the truth get a real bible. Look at all the real bibles. The NIV has also eliminated alot of verses.

Titus 2:13
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
(NKJ)

Titus 2:13
13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
(RSV)

Titus 2:13
13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
(ASV)

Titus 2:13
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
(KJV)

Titus 2:13
13 while we wait for the blessed hope-- the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
(NIV)
 
What is it that leads Squeaky?

All the verses Squeaky posted call Jesus 'Our great God and savior"

...what do you suppose makes Squeaky try to pervert these verses?
 
Squeakybro said:
Titus 2:13
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
(NKJ)
Click to expand...

The KJV is clearly saying that Jesus is our great God and Savior.
 
Dime,

Clear scripture verses never stopped Squeaky from teaching the opposite.

What do you suppose is the source of this?
 
awisherofgrace said:
Dime,

Clear scripture verses never stopped Squeaky from teaching the opposite.
Click to expand...

All we can do is keep showing this person the truth in Christian love.

God loves everybody and wants them all to be saved, even Squeakybro.
 
awisherofgrace said:
Dime,

What does scripture say about false teachers?
Click to expand...

It depends on where you look. One thing I know for sure....we need to love people no matter what.

Sure we disagree on this issue, and having the wrong Jesus is very bad, but if we don't show love to Squeakybro, then how will he come to know the truth?

The only way is by our prayers for Him and for us to show Him love.

Jesus did say, "by this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for each other."
 
Dime,

So, what does scripture say about false teachers?
 
Dime you said
I already gave proof of a verse that says "our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."

The comma being before Jesus makes all before it talking about Him, thus the title God belongs to Jesus Christ.

If it said, "Our great God, and our Savior Jesus Christ." then you would have reason, and there are places where it says this exact thing.

But it also says it the other way, which I have already given. You just deny this because it doesn't fit what you want to believe.

I said
Dime I showed you the other versions. And these show that the verse is questionable.

Titus 2:13
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
(NKJ)

Titus 2:13
13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
(ASV)

Titus 2:13
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
(KJV)

But these verse are not questionable. Jesus said Himself that the Father is the only true God.

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)


These are not questionable, that Jesus and I have the same God and the same Father. In order to do that He cant be God.

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)



these are not questionable. The apostles said there is only one God the Father.

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Eph 4:6
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
(NKJ)

these are called factual verses. Unlike your evidence which is called circumstantial evidence.
 
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