Bible Study Trinity Evidence All False

[Squeakybro]

liafelrock
I have no idea of what your getting at. Please put it in either human wisdom or spiritual wisdom. I'm not to good with word games.

 

[liafailrock]

liafelrock
I have no idea of what your getting at. Please put it in either human wisdom or spiritual wisdom. I'm not to good with word games.

Squeakybro:

Earlier you said,

You must be in the milk understanding. Because only those in the milk would attempt to use a carnal dictionary to define Spiritual words.

I took that to mean that since I was in the milk of understanding that I should not use carnal definitions, maybe more spiritual perhaps? But now you will accept human wisdom to define what I stated?

OK--- let's try a little human wisdom. When a man and woman get together (and I'll let the rest up to the imagination), they can make another human like themselves--- a nice little baby. So, when one is born of God, he is like God also, just as that little baby is like his parents.

 

[awisherofgrace]

Squeaky,

I choose not to discuss personal information over the internet. I assume you will respect this decision. I am responding only to the topic of this thread. If you cannot respond to my argument, I will accept your surender on this topic / point,

You simply must acknowledge the Old and New Testament that testify that Jesus is God.

The spirit you follow obviously doesn’t know scripture and/or wishes to pervert it.

Mathew says that Isaiah chapter 9 is about Jesus:

Isaiah 9:1-2

1 Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the Gentiles, by the way of the sea, along the Jordan-
2 The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.

Mathew 4:13-17

13Leaving Nazareth, he went and lived in Capernaum, which was by the lake in the area of Zebulun and Naphtali– 14to fulfill what was said through the prophet Isaiah: 15“Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali, the way to the sea, along the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles– 16the people living in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.â€Â17From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.â€Â

So, since Mathew says Isaiah chapter 9 is about Christ, and Christ started His post-resurrection ministry preaching from the Old Testament and affirming what Moses and the Prophets said about Him, let's look at what one of the greatest prophets said about Jesus (as mathew and the New Testament affirm)

1. Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Sine the Old and New Testament affirm Jesus is to be called Mighty God. and since Jesus, and Mathew, and the New Testament affirmed this writing about Jesus, what leads Squeaky and his perverted spirit to deny clear scripture?

 

[Squeakybro]

awisherofgarce you said
I choose not to discuss personal information over the internet. I assume you will respect this decision.

I said
I'm sorry but your asking me to sin. I cant respect you or your decision to hide the truth. God doesnt He tells me not to.

Rom 2:11
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
(KJV)

James 2:9
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
(KJV)

Dont you know what a hypocrite is.

1 Pet 3:15
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;
(NKJ)

Eph 4:25
25 Therefore, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another.
(NKJ)

 

[awisherofgrace]

Squeaky,

I am neither a woman or a child, so let's move on shall we. I am responding only to the topic of this thread. If you cannot respond to my argument, I will accept your surender on this topic / point,

You simply must acknowledge the Old and New Testament that testify that Jesus is God.

The spirit you follow obviously doesn’t know scripture and/or wishes to pervert it.

Mathew says that Isaiah chapter 9 is about Jesus:

Isaiah 9:1-2

1 Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the Gentiles, by the way of the sea, along the Jordan-
2 The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.

Mathew 4:13-17

13Leaving Nazareth, he went and lived in Capernaum, which was by the lake in the area of Zebulun and Naphtali– 14to fulfill what was said through the prophet Isaiah: 15“Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali, the way to the sea, along the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles– 16the people living in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.â€Â17From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.â€Â

So, since Mathew says Isaiah chapter 9 is about Christ, and Christ started His post-resurrection ministry preaching from the Old Testament and affirming what Moses and the Prophets said about Him, let's look at what one of the greatest prophets said about Jesus (as mathew and the New Testament affirm)

1. Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Sine the Old and New Testament affirm Jesus is to be called Mighty God. and since Jesus, and Mathew, and the New Testament affirmed this writing about Jesus, what leads Squeaky and his perverted spirit to deny clear scripture?

 

[liafailrock]

awisherofgrace:

Just to take a sideroad here regarding scripiture. You mentioned that some of the scripture is clear about Jesus being Mighty God. I agree. But that's not what I want to touch on here. I had to chuckle when you said it's clear Scripture. So many times on forums I make a clear statement---- such as on this thread, that is understood "very clearly". It starts some people going if you notice. What many people don't realize is that I merely paraphrased a statement that the Bible already said, and yet, I get a thousand different explanations why what the Bible says is not what I said. Yet they understood me clearly enough, but not the Bible that said the same thing {scratching my head???}

In addition, I do not take fragments of Scripture in a vacuum, such as where Judas hangs himself, and then another passage where Jesus says "Let him do likewise." I read the text before and after the verse(s) I quote to make sure that the context is correct, or that it is not meant to be understood symbolically.

 

[awisherofgrace]

liafailrock,

I agree, context is very important. And I do symphaize. some people, like Squeaky, do not want to acknowledge clear scripture.

For example: Romans 9 clearly says that Jesus is God..

Romans 9
1I speak the truth in Christ–I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit– 2I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised![a] Amen.

So you see, it clearly says "Christ, who is GOD OVER ALL,...

Now, anyone who can read would say that the new Testament clearly says that Jesus is God over all...but Squeaky does not want to read clear scripture, Squeaky will try to pervert this clear scripture verse.

Squeaky is not constrained by clear scripture, if he was he would have to admit that the Bible clearly says that Jesus is God.

For Squeaky, if scripture says something is white, Squeaky says it is blackl and posts 5 to 10 scriptures which have nothing to do with the topic.

Then if you point out his error, he just denies it and posts another 5 to 10 scriptures....

Squeaky's strength comes from not constraining himself by clear scripture. Black is white to Squeaky and white is as good as black... Clear scripture is not a concern or constraint to Squeaky.

 

[liafailrock]

Well, there's one thing I want to know what Squeaky believes but he just bypassed the questions--- and in all fairness we defended our own positions so I think it's his turn to answer something.

I still have not gotten an answer regarding the conception of Jesus Christ.

1) Was Jesus conceived by the Holy Spirit? or was Joseph his father?
2) If Joseph was Jesus' father, then, is Jesus merely a good and wise teacher, or is He something more, a savior of mankind, Lord or whatever?

 

[awisherofgrace]

Liafailrock,

I suspect Squeaky will have a great revelation and post:

Matthew 1:18
[This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 1:20
But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

Squeaky will say that Jesus was conceived by Mary both from and through the Holy Spirit. But the involvement of the Holy Spirit in the conceiving of Christ can in no way be inferred as Christ being God.

And you would say?

 

[Squeakybro]

awisherofgarce when are you going to get rid of that childrens bible and get a real one. Now look at what your childrens bible says and compare it to a real bible like the KJV. Yours says Jesus is God and the real bible says that Christ came and God blessed Him. Big difference incase you cant see the difference.

Rom 9:5
5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
(NIV)

Rom 9:5
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
(KJV)

 

[awisherofgrace]

Squeaky,

Thanks for proving my point, that clear scripture does not constrain you.

Now the KJV you posted also says that Jesus is over all, and is God blessed forever.

The New KJV should clear up any confusion you might have:

Romans 9:5 (New King James Version)

of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Now, whether you want to put the adjectives "eternally blessed" before or after God I don't really care as long as you acknowledge that the Bible says that Jesus is God.

But, then you would have to acknowledge the clear scripture, and that's not why you are here.... You reject Christ, you reject the Old Testament, and you reject the New Testament... You are a rejector.

 

[Elijah message]

Elijah here: I posted this on another site. See if it helps any ones understanding here?? :fadein:
_________________________________________

QUOTE (GoodNewsDoc @ Dec 24 2004, 06:22 PM)
And why is it wrong to see that God is the 'Father' of Jesus Christ, and that Jesus
Christ is the Son of the Father ?

What's wrong with that ???

How is that devilish or satanic as you suppose ???

gnd

And why is it wrong to see that God is the 'Father' of Jesus Christ, and that Jesus
Christ is the Son of the Father ?

********
Elijah here:
There is nothing wrong with this statement if it is understood as the Word of God taught it! The Word was With God and the Word was God! And the WORD was made Flesh! John 1.

As you are well aware of, this is what The DOCTRINE OF CHRIST WARNED ABOUT in John 2:9-11!

You say later on: "I guess what troubles me most,... is the possibility of calling something 'God' that is not God." (You sound like you know more than God does with that remark! If so, where does that originate from?? See Gen. 4:7)

Me again: The ten commandments that Christ wrote, would even condemn Christ Himself if He were not God, in the first four commandments one see's where WORSHIP can only belongs to GOD! Not angels, not created ones, nor Christ if He WAS & IS not God! Rev. 14:6-7's Everlasting Gospel alone has the universe 'seeing' the worshiping of Christ!

Or do you as with Jehovah Witnesses strike the WORD WORSHIP from your belief as they do from their bibles? If so, then you too need the WARNING from John's other inspired Words of Rev.'s last few verses of adding to or removing from...! Very Dangerous, and FATAL when the 'sin is finished'! James 1:15.

Christ forgave sins! Christ healed the BLIND! (BOTH WAYS!!) Christ RAISED THE DEAD! (BOTH WAYS!!) Only GOD/MAN could do this!! The devil in Matt. 4 requested Christ to fall down and worship him, what was Christ' reply, and where was it written?? It was meant for whom?? Again John had the same testing in his penned book of Rev. 22:8-9 when he fell down at the feet of the angel, as it appears in being awestruck? Anyhow, the message from the angel was a warning not to do so!
He said to John:
".. See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethern the prophets, [and of them that keep the sayings of this book: WORSHIP GOD]." But not Christ, huh? [CHRIST IS GOD/IN/THE/FLESH!!] Where again does one find the WORSHIP GOD COMMANDMENT? Right back to the Royal Universal Everlasting Covenant That Christ Himself wrote in the ten Commandments of Stone! Heb. 13:20's ETERNAL COVENANT! Christ IS GOD ETERNAL!

Stephen while being stoned to death in Acts 7 was 'filled with the Holy Ghost' and said: "THIS IS HE, THAT WAS [IN] THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS].." David stated in Christs Word, by the Inspiration of the Holy Ghost...
"Give ear, O Shephard of Israel, [THOU THAT LEADIEST JOSEPH LIKE A FLOCK; *THOU THAT DWELLEST BETWEEN THE CHERUBIMS, SHINE FORTH."

It is interesting how any could miss this when reading Prov. 8? See verse 5? "O ye simple, understand wisdom: and ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart." ???
Then comes prophetic wisdom of the future of 1000 years & the life of Christ the SON OF GOD!! Even as a child playing and maturing!
Yet, some even try to project this as teaching that Christ had a beginning as the Son of God before he came to earth and actually was born!, or at least in eternity somewhere!!

Notice verse 23 for the Godhead's PLAN IN ETERNITY... "I WAS SET UP FROM EVERLASTING, FROM THE BEGINNING, OR EVER THE EARTH WAS."

"BY HIM WERE [ALL THINGS CREATED, THAT WERE CREATED: THAT ARE IN THE HEAVEN, AND THAT ARE IN THE EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, *WHETHER THEY BE THRONES, OR DOMINIONS, OR PRINCIPALITIES, OR POWERS: *ALL THINGS WERE CREATED FOR HIM AND BY HIM: AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS: AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST. ... AND IT PLEASED THE FATHER THAT IN HIM SHOULD ALL THE *FULLNESS DWELL." Colossians 1:15-19 in part. And this is BEFORE and AFTER Christ became God/Man!

THIS Above [IS THE EVERLASTING DOCTRINE OF CHRIST!] 2 John 1:9
The God/Head in their plan not only Prophesied the plan in Proverbs, but told that they would DECLARE THE DECREE!! "I WILL DECLARE THE DECREE: the Lord hath said unto me, [THOU ART MY SON]; [*THIS DAY] [HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE]." Psalms 2:7
Then the day came! When did God become the Son of God in actual conception? Most know.

But in Heb. 1:5 it states the time as past/tense setting. Verse 5's last part of the verse it says:
"... THOU ART MY SON, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE?." There is a question mark there! Read 1-5 for it to be removed!!!

---Elijah
********

What's wrong with that ???

How is that devilish or satanic as you suppose ???gnd

 

[liafailrock]

Squeakybro:

I do agree with you that these newer translations need much to be desired, however, even though I cannot speak on behalf of the others, I can truly say that I always use the KJV. The bible programs on my computer are all the KJV. I not only like the translation the best, but since it's public domain the software is cheap, 'cause it's free.

Now, Jesus Christ did come in the flesh, and was the lineage of his kinsmen, but he did not have the seed of Joseph. Joseph was not his natural father, only a legal father because he married Mary. Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit. That is different than any of us were conceived (we came from Adam's seed). Hence, before Jesus was born in the flesh, he was the WORD, but by being born in the flesh became the incarnate WORD and by that act the Son of God. That's why Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. He was and is always the WORD.

Truly, it can be said that Jesus was born from above, i.e., from the seed of the Holy Spirit. Now why would he not be God Almighty if He was the WORD, and then thru the incarnation because of his birth be also known as God's Son?

 

[Squeakybro]

I think maybe your getting off into a tangent. The Word of God is what ever Words God speaks. Whether God speaks them through the Holy Spirit or through prophets or through His Son. God said let there be light and there was light. Let there be water and there was water. Bring forth a child and someone brings forth a child. Be healed and someone is healed. The thing is Jesus is not the begotten Word although the begotten Word came through Jesus from God to us. Its that lack of understanding why people dont have the Word abiding in them. If they believe Jesus is the Word then they won't look for the evidence of the Holy Spirit quoting verses to them in their own mind. The will just assume the Word is in them if Jesus is the Word. They will also trust their carnal logic with them assumptions. And will not look for the real Word from the Holy Spirit(quoting verses).

John 14:23-25
23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.
25 "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
(NKJ)

John 16:7
7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
(NKJ)

Dont you see what has happened. Its easy for the carnal mind to believe anything(deception). Jesus is God, God is Jesus, Jesus is the Word, the Word is Jesus, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Jesus, God is the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is God, . God went to great lengths to separate all of them in His Word so that we cant be deceived. God spoke through the prophets in the old testament. Then some prophets claimed God was speaking through them when He wasnt. So the people didnt know which ones to listen to. So God changed all that sent His Son and said He would only speak through His Son. The begotten Word of God came through the only begotten Son of God. And is quoted to us after we believe by our Holy Spirit. And we are to walk after the Holy Spirit quoting them verses until we come to the revelations of Jesus Christ that Paul spoke of.

 

[Elijah message]

Yes, surely you are right, that is exactly what [your post] is doing! See
1 John 4:6 I am glade that you are finally seeing the light? But that is not exactly what you meant, was it?

--Elijah

 

[awisherofgrace]

Squeaky,

Thanks for proving my point, that clear scripture does not constrain you.

Now the KJV says that Jesus is over all, and is God blessed forever.

So, from now on every time you refer to Jesus please acknowledge that Jesus is God blessed forever.

The New KJV should clear up any confusion you might have:

Romans 9:5 (New King James Version)

of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Now, whether you want to put the adjectives "eternally blessed" before or after God I don't really care as long as you acknowledge that the Bible says that Jesus is God.

But, then you would have to acknowledge the clear scripture, and that's not why you are here.... You reject Christ, you reject the Old Testament, and you reject the New Testament... You are a rejector.

 

[Squeakybro]

You poor child, if you only knew.

 

[awisherofgrace]

Squeaky,

That's the point. I do know.

Since you reject Christ your sins are bound in heaven and on earth. Unless you repent you will die in your sins.

STOP REJECTING CHRIST!!!! he evidence in scripture goes on---and--- on---and--on.....

Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ...

Romans 9:5
of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him (Jesus), My LORD and my God.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 1:1-3,
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made....

Acts 20:28
"Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood"

Philippians 2:5
"Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

II Peter 1:1
"Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ" (II Peter 1:1, NKJV).

I Timothy 3:16
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory" (I Timothy 3:16, NKJV).

Hebrews 1:8-9
"But to the Son He says: 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions" (Hebrews 1:8-9, NKJV; cf., Psalm 45:6-7).

 

[liafailrock]

There's still the questions I asked Squeaky which were conveniently ignored. I asked them twice, so I won't ask or pose anything further. I gave scriptures to defend my belief when fired upon. So, don't I have a "right" to fire a few points and questions back, especially if it's relevant to the issue without being ignored? I guess not.

Y'all have a happy New Year. Catch you later. Cheers.

 

[Squeakybro]

liafielrock I'm sorry I missed the question. Ask it again please and I will see if I can answer.