Bible Study Trinity Evidence All False

  • Thread starter Thread starter Squeakybro
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Dime dont you know what creed that is? That is the catholic's creed.
And then you have the necine creed for the trinity.
Then you have the apostles creed that was from the beginning.

THE APOSTLES CREED
I believe in God the Father Almighty. And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord, who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary; crucified under Pontius Pilate and buried; the third day he rose from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father, from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. And in the Holy Spirit; the holy Church; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the flesh.
THE NICENE CREED
I believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible; And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light; Very God of Very God; begotten, not made; being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made; Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven; and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven; and sitteth on the right hand of the Father, and He shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end'.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost; the Lord and Giver of Life; Who proceedeth from the Father and the Son; Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; Who spake by the prophets. And I believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And I look for the resurrection of the dead; and the life of the world to come. Amen.
 
Elijah dont you know what happens when you try to be justified in your beliefs by useing the old testament. You can fall from grace.

Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)
 
Squeakybro said:
Dime dont you know what creed that is? That is the catholic's creed.
And then you have the necine creed for the trinity.
Then you have the apostles creed that was from the beginning.
It isn't a Roman Catholic church creed - I already showed that.

If God recognizes someone as His child, then said person belongs to the catholic Church (universal church).

But what I want is for you to admit that the original teaching was that of a Triune God. Unless you can provide us with proof that people in the early church strived to fight against a Trinity doctrine, and considering these irrefutible proofs of a Triune God in the early 5th century, you must accept the Trinity as being Biblical and the only truth.
 
Dime the necine creed came out in 325 AD the anthenian creed didnt even come out until the late 400 AD. In the beginning it started out with the apostles creed that there is only one God the Father.
 
Squeakybro said:
Elijah dont you know what happens when you try to be justified in your beliefs by useing the old testament. You can fall from grace.

Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

Well, I then guess every man, woman and child who heard the Torah and trusted in the Old Testament prophecies and promises about Jesus the Messiah are in a very, very hot place right now.

:roll:

For everyone's information, SB rejects the Old Testament.
 
vice you said
Well, I then guess every man, woman and child who heard the Torah and trusted in the Old Testament prophecies and promises about Jesus the Messiah are in a very, very hot place right now.

I said
Do you think any of them went to heaven?

John 3:13
13 "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
(NKJ)

This is what Jesus said.

John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
(NKJ)

Are you going to believe the gospel or keep disputing it?

Mark 1:14-15
14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."
(NKJ)
 
Squeakybro said:
Dime the necine creed came out in 325 AD the anthenian creed didnt even come out until the late 400 AD. In the beginning it started out with the apostles creed that there is only one God the Father.
You didn't listen.

Here is part of the anthenian creed:

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
If you would like to explain something, explain how (giving evidence of the early church) what you consider to be the truth disappeared.
 
Dime maybe you dont understand this. The word catholic has two meanings. In the beginning the word catholic meant the majarity. Later on the word became a denomination. And the denomination catholic is the one that came up with the anthanian creed in the late 400AD.
 
So you are saying that the Roman Catholic church started the doctrine of the Trinity and that was in late 400 AD?
 
No the doctrine of the trinity started with the necine creed at the meeting of the elders in christinople. The anthenian creed is what the catholic denomination started in the late 400AD. Run your search engine on creeds.
Here is something I found on the creeds.
The Nicene Creed
A greater variety of creeds appeared in the East than in the West. When the Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325) rejected the teaching of Arius, it expressed its position by adopting one of the current Eastern symbols and inserting into it some anti-Arian phrases, resulting in this creed. At the Council of Constantinople (381) some minor changes were made, and it was reaffirmed at the Council of Chalcedon (451). It is an essential part of the doctrine and liturgy of the Lutheran churches. Historically it has been used especially at Holy Communion on Sundays and major feasts (except when the Apostles' Creed is used as the Baptismal Creed).

The Athanasian Creed
This creed is of uncertain origin. It was supposedly prepared in the time of Athanasius, the great theologian of the fourth century, although it seems more likely that it dates from the fifth or sixth centuries and is Western in character. It assists the Church in combating two errors that undermined Bible teaching: the denial that God's Son and the Holy Spirit are of one being with the Father; the other a denial that Jesus Christ is true God and true man in one person. It declares that whoever rejects the doctrine of the Trinity and the doctrine of Christ is without the saving faith. Traditionally it is considered the "Trinitarian Creed" and read aloud in corporate worship on Trinity Sunday.
 
Squeakybro said:
If verse John 10-30 makes Jesus God, then verse John 17-22 makes us God also. Your discernment skills are shortsighted. The only way these can fit together is if we are one in agreement.


John 10:30
30 "I and My Father are one."
(NKJ)

John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
(NKJ)

So then what or who do you think Christ is? I believe he is God. As for us being God, as your reasoning goes, I'm not arguing that. IF God has children, then we are in essence the same--- one day judging the angels and cosmos like Christ--- ruling and reigning like Christ. Psalm chapter 2 applies to the believer in Christ as well. Do you know of any father that bears offspring unlike himself? What do cats beget? How about dogs? Do they beget chickens?

The issue isn't God v.s. non-God. God is a generic term for the species. The issue is if Christ is YHWH. That's a personal address. I have many cats--- 6 in all. They are all cats, But only one Panther, Kiki, Moonshine, etc. Jesus Christ, before he was incarnated was the Word--- think of it as the physical branch of God because the bible teaches that all things were made thru him, and the Word became flesh. That's the same thing that would have happened to Adam had he taken from the Tree of Life instead or the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Then we would not have needed Christ. Adam would have been the Head just as the Christ is head of the church. If you understand the concept of a family (which due to the high divorce rate these days many folks don't), then you can understand the basic laws of spirituality.
 
you said
The issue isn't God v.s. non-God. God is a generic term for the species.

I said
I'm sorry but that isnt so. God is a title of authority. God is the highest title of authority over the universe. Lord is the highest title of authority over the earth. The Father held both titles in the old testament. The Father turned over the title of Lord to Jesus in the new testament.
can you see how when heaven is first the creator is God. And when earth is used first it is LORD God. And in the old testament LORD is all capital, but when Jesus carries the title it is Lord.

Gen 1:1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
(NKJ)

Gen 2:4
4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
(NKJ)
 
Squeakybro said:
I'm sorry but that isnt so. God is a title of authority. God is the highest title of authority over the universe. Lord is the highest title of authority over the earth.

Go check what "God" was translated from in Hebrew and then check "LORD". If you mean "the" God, yes. That's why it is capitalized. But when we get a specific, covenant-keeping God, then He's named--- LORD. Otherwise, if (the) God reproduces Himself, whom we call the Father, what kind of beings does one think he ought to have, if He is indeed a Father?
 
I'm sorry but I dont understand what your saying. ????????
 
Squeakybro said:
I'm sorry but I dont understand what your saying. ????????

Well, if you look up "God", the Strongs usually gives the following (except if it's preceeded by 'Lord' i.e., Lord God):

'ĕlôhîym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.


Notice with the article denotes the supreme God, which is what I stated earlier. In my "cat" example earlier, I gave names. But Pather is the "boss" cat. It's kind of like saying, "He's THE CAT in this group. None of the others challenge him." In that case, I'm using the generic term to address the specific animal.

Now.... as for LORD, Stong's usually gives:

yehôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'
From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord.



Clearly, that's the ONE, biggest and best God.

I also mentioned "Lord God" which would be sort of like saying "Panther Cat". One is the species (which a specific one may be referred to with a definite article) and the other is the individual.

How about us? The bible teaches we will be like God (not THE GOD), but like him just as parents beget the same type of offspring. Hence, we are called 'ĕlôhîym in the bible also, but not LORD. Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD {yehôvâh} He's the only one by that name, the greatest, the first and the last, which, by the way, are the same words Jesus used of himself in Revelation.

As for us, indeed, the bible teaches we will get a "new name"--- so that like yeh-ho-vaw', we too will have a name to specify our individual being.
 
you said
How about us? The bible teaches we will be like God (not THE GOD), but like him just as parents beget the same type of offspring

I said
I have no idea of what the other things you said means. But this part I think is a delusion.
We are not to be like God, we are to submit to God the way Jesus submitted to God. If we submit to God then God can work through us. And it will be Him doing the works not us. It appears you have a big delusion in front of you on how we are suppose to be.
 
Squeakybro said:
we are to submit to God the way Jesus submitted to God. If we submit to God then God can work through us. And it will be Him doing the works not us.

I 100% agree with this statement! And that's how The God (YHWH) reproduces Himself thru everyone being one in Him. However, God wanted many glorified sons. These will one day rule and reign, judge angels and the world, and live eternally like Christ. That's an awful lot of responcibility given to us. We are not just merely eternally grateful individuals whose sole purpose is to give the Father an eternal ego-boost. He wanted more like Himself to do things with.
 
you said
However, God wanted many glorified sons. These will one day rule and reign,

I said
That is just not so. We will never rule or reign, we will always be subservients.

1 Cor 15:24-26
24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
(NKJ)
 
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 
Squeakybro:

What Eve quoted is correct. I could not have said it better. You are only presenting some of the scripture (or maybe don't know all of it). What you quoted about the Kingdom being delivered to the Father is true, but that passage does not say anything abut the position of believers. One must go elsewhere in scripture. In other words, even if you knew nothing about the ultimate outcome of believers, you cannot logically deduce from this passage alone that only God the Father will reign. Rather, we are all subordinate to Him--- that's different than a slave status for us.

Let me take a side road here and ask you some things.

1) Do you believe Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit? If so, then would not that indicate to you that being of God's seed would hence be God also? If not, and you believe Jesus was the natural son of Joseph, then I must ask question #2:

2) If Jesus was natural born, do you see Jesus as some sort of sinless savior of mankind, or just a good/wise teacher?
 
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